Pick a Weakness

[Sports Hernia]

This blaming the OC is really getting old. My God, it's the first game of the preseason, when you don't unveil anything but basic formations and plays and people are babbling about it like it's Game 10 of the regular season. Hypersensitivity documented.

It helps to get some perspective on this if you go to other team boards or subreddits. Every fan base complains about play calls and Hawks fans are merely average at it. And if it helps people to vent their frustrations I'd much rather they do it here then every 15 seconds while sitting behind me on game days.
Haha, yeah I see your point. I realize blaming the OC, and now the ripping has crept over to Cable's offensive line tutelage, is an easy out and fundamental target for those fans limited in their breadth of football knowledge, but it's just so very wrong when it comes in the preseason when the playbooks are vanilla and lineups are an assembly line of lower-tiered players trying to find their way onto our roster. I guess I just thought we were better than that with two recent Super Bowl appearances under our belts. I guess I overestimated some of our fans.

Your posts whining about those folks whining about the OC and Cable sure show "breadth of football knowledge".

All I'm saying is let's pump the brakes a bit after just 1 preseason game. Once the real bullets start flying in September, critical analysis would be better served.

It's best not to tell folks how to post. Again, critical or praise type posts are welcomed here. Please recognize this fact.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

Dallas had the #1 rb last year, enough said.

Dallas may have had the #1 RB last year, but one could certainly argue that Marshawn Lynch was 1a. Lynch did his damage behind a much worse line than Murray ran behind in Dallas. There probably isn't a RB in the league who wouldn't look good behind that line.[/quote]

great you just made my point thanks other teams have and can do it, there for so can we.[/quote]

Dalls didn't do it. Does Dallas have that same RB this year? No. Why? Another decision on where to put the money. They feel a good O-line can mask a sub par RB core (that is what they have this year). And anyone that blames Russel WIlson for crippling this team with his contract has no opinion worth listening to.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

I don't believe in picking a weakness, but in terms of picking an area to save bucks: linebacker, running back, and tight end. Oddly enough we have guys at all three of those positions that are worth paying big bucks to.

For a team like Seattle and a RB like Lynch, it makes sense to pay a RB. But I kinda wish Seattle was willing to be more fungible at LB. And though I liked the Graham trade, I would trade Graham for a WR like Dez Bryant or Calvin Johnson in a heartbeat.

Then again Seattle's track record at drafting TE hasn't been stellar, and our WRs are solid. Breaking the bank on a TE was probably done in light of the organization's own weaknesses.

Good points. Also we have been low in draft order and missed out on premium O-line guys. I don't think this organization values them enough to trade up. In the same vein as Kearly I think we are making best of the cards in front of us. Pete values D over offense so they will be favored more in salary cap.

 

[Anthony!]

Dallas had the #1 rb last year, enough said.

Dallas may have had the #1 RB last year, but one could certainly argue that Marshawn Lynch was 1a. Lynch did his damage behind a much worse line than Murray ran behind in Dallas. There probably isn't a RB in the league who wouldn't look good behind that line.

great you just made my point thanks other teams have and can do it, there for so can we.[/quote]

Dalls didn't do it. Does Dallas have that same RB this year? No. Why? Another decision on where to put the money. They feel a good O-line can mask a sub par RB core (that is what they have this year). And anyone that blames Russel WIlson for crippling this team with his contract has no opinion worth listening to.[/quote]

And yet they could still afford great Wr, great QBV, and great Oline that is 3 great we have 2 thanks again for proving my point it can be done.

 

[BlackandGolden]

In todays salary cap era of football it is just not possible to have a complete great team. In the Pete era we have had typically a weak receiving core (not from lack of trying with Harvin) and bad O-line play. We use the money for other areas. To improve our O-line play we would have to pay for better play. Where would you all suggest we cut to improve there. What high dollar player could we let go and still feel good about that position? Yes having a bad o-line sucks but is it better than having a bad d-line?

Maybe not a complete "Dream Team" loaded with Hall of Famers everywhere, but at least, a team with some elite players getting big bucks and decent talent where the team saves money on.

If a team gets rid of a high dollar player at a position, it's usually because that team has signed a cheaper replacement in FA, or has a younger and cheaper backup waiting in the wings. Jimmy's the highest paid TE, though his backup (Josh Hill) caught half as many TD's with limited play time, and is possibly going to be our starter.

I don't necessarily think that paying more is the answer to improvement, but finding an affordable replacement is.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

In todays salary cap era of football it is just not possible to have a complete great team. In the Pete era we have had typically a weak receiving core (not from lack of trying with Harvin) and bad O-line play. We use the money for other areas. To improve our O-line play we would have to pay for better play. Where would you all suggest we cut to improve there. What high dollar player could we let go and still feel good about that position? Yes having a bad o-line sucks but is it better than having a bad d-line?

KJ Wright and Michael Bennett might be the easiest high value contract to replace without a huge loss with KPL and Frank Clark on the roster for the next 3-4 years. I'd hate to see that though. I can't remember an elite offensive line being the reason for winning a super bowl. I can think of a recent team with an elite defense that's had some success, however.

 

[oldhawkfan]

It doesn't really matter what they call us. It's the spirit of the 12th man that matters. Pete started using the term 12s shortly after his arrival. I have no doubt that this has been the intent since probably before he was hired. Whenever you have two companies merge, both names are combined until the one not chosen is later dropped. It gives the customer base ample time to transition.
The spirit of the 12th man is alive and well. I have been a fan of this team since 1976. I have seen the evolution and growth of the 12th man 12's. Just as the game day experience from the Kingdome to the Clink has changed, so has and so will that of the 12's. It matters not what you call us, for we will be there in spirit and force and voice! I try explaining to people the difference between a Kingdome game day experience and a Clink game day experience. The best I can really come up with is that it is now more involved and a richer experience.
One only had to be part of the Super Bowl parade along with 750,000 other 12's to know that the spirit is alive and well. Looking into the eyes of older 12's and younger 12's told me everything I need to know about twelvedom. This twelviness will be a part of Seahawks football as long as they are part of Seattle football lore.
12th man, 12th fan, twelves, 12's or any other way you want to define us, the spirit of the 12th man 12 is alive, well and LOUD!
Just as the logo has changed and evolved, just as the uniform has changed, so too has our designation. I have a fondness for the original silver and blue. I enjoy the memories of the Holmgren era uniforms. I love the current edition of Seahawks uniforms. The 12th man will always be a part of us and who the roots and foundation of this fandom represent.
I'm a 12th man! I'm a 12! I'm a Seahaws fan!

 

[Year of The Hawk]

In todays salary cap era of football it is just not possible to have a complete great team. In the Pete era we have had typically a weak receiving core (not from lack of trying with Harvin) and bad O-line play. We use the money for other areas. To improve our O-line play we would have to pay for better play. Where would you all suggest we cut to improve there. What high dollar player could we let go and still feel good about that position? Yes having a bad o-line sucks but is it better than having a bad d-line?

Hmm lets see, Dallas has a great oline, top WR top QB, good Rb good defense. Denver has a great oline, great QB, good RB, great Wr, great defense. Hm they can do it why cant we?

Denver is a good, well rounded team and Elway is running that program well.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say Dallas had a good defense. They're bottom third of the league, and their DVOA was terrible. Literally all of their deficiencies were masked by Dallas' offensive line and controlling time of possession.

You also have to realize, saying "this team has a good defense" still is apples and oranges to our defense.

Our defense is historically good, maybe the very best of all time. You have to pay for that.

dallas was 19th in yards and 15th in scoring far form bottom 3r and pretty good.

Our offensive line was 21st last year. I guess if Dallas D is pretty good last year then we are not too bad off. posting.php?mode=quote&f=2&p=1669096# Not sure why you think Dallas is a more complete team then we are but whatever floats your boat.

 

[oldhawkfan]

It doesn't really matter what they call us. It's the spirit of the 12th man that matters. Pete started using the term 12s shortly after his arrival. I have no doubt that this has been the intent since probably before he was hired. Whenever you have two companies merge, both names are combined until the one not chosen is later dropped. It gives the customer base ample time to transition.
The spirit of the 12th man is alive and well. I have been a fan of this team since 1976. I have seen the evolution and growth of the 12th man 12's. Just as the game day experience from the Kingdome to the Clink has changed, so has and so will that of the 12's. It matters not what you call us, for we will be there in spirit and force and voice! I try explaining to people the difference between a Kingdome game day experience and a Clink game day experience. The best I can really come up with is that it is now more involved and a richer experience.
One only had to be part of the Super Bowl parade along with 750,000 other 12's to know that the spirit is alive and well. Looking into the eyes of older 12's and younger 12's told me everything I need to know about twelvedom. This twelviness will be a part of Seahawks football as long as they are part of Seattle football lore.
12th man, 12th fan, twelves, 12's or any other way you want to define us, the spirit of the 12th man 12 is alive, well and LOUD!
Just as the logo has changed and evolved, just as the uniform has changed, so too has our designation. I have a fondness for the original silver and blue. I enjoy the memories of the Holmgren era uniforms. I love the current edition of Seahawks uniforms. The 12th man will always be a part of us and who the roots and foundation of this fandom represent.
I'm a 12th man! I'm a 12! I'm a Seahaws fan!

This was supposed to go in another thread. Stupid phone. Dumb old eyes.

 

[Anthony!]

Here is the reality we have been ranked no higher than 24th in pass blocking in the last 4+years. Wilson only just got paid so they had over 3 years to do something about it. They have not.

We do not need to have a top 10 pass blocking oline top 15 would even work. But we do not and have not. Other teams do it and still have great run games, top WR, top Qbs and great defenses. Think about it just top 15 in pass blocking. Baltimore has a top 10 pass blocking oline, a top 10 defense a top 10 RB and top 10 WR. So it can be done if you bother to put any real effort into it. Taking guys who have been D-lineman and converting them is not the way.

Lets look at it another way, we have only 2 guys on the oline making over 1 mi

at center we have 1 guy with 6 years of exp Jeanpierre a journey men the rest 3 or less in fact no line man has more than 6 years of experience, and no one other than Okung and Sweezy make more than 1 mil. In fact all make around 500k. Most were low draft or not drafted. I am sorry but all you need is to get to 15th or so, That can be done without breaking the bank but yet we have had 3+ years and have not been able to do it.

There are teams with top 10 defenses, great ruinning game and or RBs, and Great WR and QBs who have been able to put together at least middle of the back pass blocking olines.

This has been my biggest issues with the FO the oline, but for someone to actually say you cannot do it because of the money we put into the defense, RB, QB, and TE is BS. It can be done, and it has been done. Time to just do it, focus on guys who can pass block. Right now we only care about run blocking, if they are great run blockers but poor pass blocking they like them. Here is an idea how about they are really good at both. Not great just really good. It can be done.

 

[Anthony!]

Hmm lets see, Dallas has a great oline, top WR top QB, good Rb good defense. Denver has a great oline, great QB, good RB, great Wr, great defense. Hm they can do it why cant we?

Denver is a good, well rounded team and Elway is running that program well.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say Dallas had a good defense. They're bottom third of the league, and their DVOA was terrible. Literally all of their deficiencies were masked by Dallas' offensive line and controlling time of possession.

You also have to realize, saying "this team has a good defense" still is apples and oranges to our defense.

Our defense is historically good, maybe the very best of all time. You have to pay for that.

dallas was 19th in yards and 15th in scoring far form bottom 3r and pretty good.

Our offensive line was 21st last year. I guess if Dallas D is pretty good last year then we are not too bad off. posting.php?mode=quote&f=2&p=1669096# Not sure why you think Dallas is a more complete team then we are but whatever floats your boat.

we were ranked 24th in pass blocking last year not 21st

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

AS to Dallas all I said was they were able to get a top running game, top Wr, top QB and top RB and top Defense and still have a much better oline than ours, SO it can be done. I never said more complete.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Here is the reality we have been ranked no higher than 24th in pass blocking in the last 4+years. Wilson only just got paid so they had over 3 years to do something about it. They have not.

We do not need to have a top 10 pass blocking oline top 15 would even work. But we do not and have not. Other teams do it and still have great run games, top WR, top Qbs and great defenses. Think about it just top 15 in pass blocking. Baltimore has a top 10 pass blocking oline, a top 10 defense a top 10 RB and top 10 WR. So it can be done if you bother to put any real effort into it. Taking guys who have been D-lineman and converting them is not the way.

Lets look at it another way, we have only 2 guys on the oline making over 1 mi

at center we have 1 guy with 6 years of exp Jeanpierre a journey men the rest 3 or less in fact no line man has more than 6 years of experience, and no one other than Okung and Sweezy make more than 1 mil. In fact all make around 500k. Most were low draft or not drafted. I am sorry but all you need is to get to 15th or so, That can be done without breaking the bank but yet we have had 3+ years and have not been able to do it.

There are teams with top 10 defenses, great ruinning game and or RBs, and Great WR and QBs who have been able to put together at least middle of the back pass blocking olines.

This has been my biggest issues with the FO the oline, but for someone to actually say you cannot do it because of the money we put into the defense, RB, QB, and TE is BS. It can be done, and it has been done. Time to just do it, focus on guys who can pass block. Right now we only care about run blocking, if they are great run blockers but poor pass blocking they like them. Here is an idea how about they are really good at both. Not great just really good. It can be done.

Why do we want to be like any of those teams, again? We've got a Super Bowl ring and almost another doing it our way, as much as it hurt watching the O-line struggle in pass pro.

I mean, you suggest we be like Dallas, but it took them 4 or 5 years of crappy play and high draft picks to build their offense and that may have only lasted 1 year, now, with losing Murray to free agency. Even then they didn't have the success we did last year.

I think I get what you saying. I want to see better pass protection as well, but the formula is working. It's hard to argue against that.

 

[Anthony!]

Here is the reality we have been ranked no higher than 24th in pass blocking in the last 4+years. Wilson only just got paid so they had over 3 years to do something about it. They have not.

We do not need to have a top 10 pass blocking oline top 15 would even work. But we do not and have not. Other teams do it and still have great run games, top WR, top Qbs and great defenses. Think about it just top 15 in pass blocking. Baltimore has a top 10 pass blocking oline, a top 10 defense a top 10 RB and top 10 WR. So it can be done if you bother to put any real effort into it. Taking guys who have been D-lineman and converting them is not the way.

Lets look at it another way, we have only 2 guys on the oline making over 1 mi

at center we have 1 guy with 6 years of exp Jeanpierre a journey men the rest 3 or less in fact no line man has more than 6 years of experience, and no one other than Okung and Sweezy make more than 1 mil. In fact all make around 500k. Most were low draft or not drafted. I am sorry but all you need is to get to 15th or so, That can be done without breaking the bank but yet we have had 3+ years and have not been able to do it.

There are teams with top 10 defenses, great ruinning game and or RBs, and Great WR and QBs who have been able to put together at least middle of the back pass blocking olines.

This has been my biggest issues with the FO the oline, but for someone to actually say you cannot do it because of the money we put into the defense, RB, QB, and TE is BS. It can be done, and it has been done. Time to just do it, focus on guys who can pass block. Right now we only care about run blocking, if they are great run blockers but poor pass blocking they like them. Here is an idea how about they are really good at both. Not great just really good. It can be done.

Why do we want to be like any of those teams, again? We've got a Super Bowl ring and almost another doing it our way, as much as it hurt watching the O-line struggle in pass pro.

I mean, you suggest we be like Dallas, but it took them 4 or 5 years of crappy play and high draft picks to build their offense and that may have only lasted 1 year, now, with losing Murray to free agency. Even then they didn't have the success we did last year.

I think I get what you saying. I want to see better pass protection as well, but the formula is working. It's hard to argue against that.

because if we do nothing to improve the oline pass blocking then sooner or later Wilson will get hurt and then we will be out of the playoffs. Its pretty simple.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

Weel since Dallas has it all figured out I guess we should do what they do. I mean look at all the success they have had the last decade. I like our formula. It obviously works. I am sure the is nobody in the Seattle organization who is satisfied with crappy o-line play. But I am just as sure no one thinks the line will stay this crappy. Bunch of new guys need time to learn position and each other. I don't think they will need to be #1 but they have proven we don't need them to be to make it to the dance.

BTW the Seahawks o-line was ranked 21st OVERALL last year. YOU cherry picked "passing offense".

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Here is the reality we have been ranked no higher than 24th in pass blocking in the last 4+years. Wilson only just got paid so they had over 3 years to do something about it. They have not.

We do not need to have a top 10 pass blocking oline top 15 would even work. But we do not and have not. Other teams do it and still have great run games, top WR, top Qbs and great defenses. Think about it just top 15 in pass blocking. Baltimore has a top 10 pass blocking oline, a top 10 defense a top 10 RB and top 10 WR. So it can be done if you bother to put any real effort into it. Taking guys who have been D-lineman and converting them is not the way.

Lets look at it another way, we have only 2 guys on the oline making over 1 mi

at center we have 1 guy with 6 years of exp Jeanpierre a journey men the rest 3 or less in fact no line man has more than 6 years of experience, and no one other than Okung and Sweezy make more than 1 mil. In fact all make around 500k. Most were low draft or not drafted. I am sorry but all you need is to get to 15th or so, That can be done without breaking the bank but yet we have had 3+ years and have not been able to do it.

There are teams with top 10 defenses, great ruinning game and or RBs, and Great WR and QBs who have been able to put together at least middle of the back pass blocking olines.

This has been my biggest issues with the FO the oline, but for someone to actually say you cannot do it because of the money we put into the defense, RB, QB, and TE is BS. It can be done, and it has been done. Time to just do it, focus on guys who can pass block. Right now we only care about run blocking, if they are great run blockers but poor pass blocking they like them. Here is an idea how about they are really good at both. Not great just really good. It can be done.

Why do we want to be like any of those teams, again? We've got a Super Bowl ring and almost another doing it our way, as much as it hurt watching the O-line struggle in pass pro.

I mean, you suggest we be like Dallas, but it took them 4 or 5 years of crappy play and high draft picks to build their offense and that may have only lasted 1 year, now, with losing Murray to free agency. Even then they didn't have the success we did last year.

I think I get what you saying. I want to see better pass protection as well, but the formula is working. It's hard to argue against that.

because if we do nothing to improve the oline pass blocking then sooner or later Wilson will get hurt and then we will be out of the playoffs. Its pretty simple.

Maybe we should run the ball less, too, to reduce the chance Lynch gets hurt. Without him we're not going much farther than without Russ.

 

[Anthony!]

Weel since Dallas has it all figured out I guess we should do what they do. I mean look at all the success they have had the last decade. I like our formula. It obviously works. I am sure the is nobody in the Seattle organization who is satisfied with crappy o-line play. But I am just as sure no one thinks the line will stay this crappy. Bunch of new guys need time to learn position and each other. I don't think they will need to be #1 but they have proven we don't need them to be to make it to the dance.

BTW the Seahawks o-line was ranked 21st OVERALL last year. YOU cherry picked "passing offense".

We are talking about pass blocking so of course I would use pass blocking. FYI 21st is bad too. FYI I said pass blocking several times.

 

[Anthony!]

Here is the reality we have been ranked no higher than 24th in pass blocking in the last 4+years. Wilson only just got paid so they had over 3 years to do something about it. They have not.

We do not need to have a top 10 pass blocking oline top 15 would even work. But we do not and have not. Other teams do it and still have great run games, top WR, top Qbs and great defenses. Think about it just top 15 in pass blocking. Baltimore has a top 10 pass blocking oline, a top 10 defense a top 10 RB and top 10 WR. So it can be done if you bother to put any real effort into it. Taking guys who have been D-lineman and converting them is not the way.

Lets look at it another way, we have only 2 guys on the oline making over 1 mi

at center we have 1 guy with 6 years of exp Jeanpierre a journey men the rest 3 or less in fact no line man has more than 6 years of experience, and no one other than Okung and Sweezy make more than 1 mil. In fact all make around 500k. Most were low draft or not drafted. I am sorry but all you need is to get to 15th or so, That can be done without breaking the bank but yet we have had 3+ years and have not been able to do it.

There are teams with top 10 defenses, great ruinning game and or RBs, and Great WR and QBs who have been able to put together at least middle of the back pass blocking olines.

This has been my biggest issues with the FO the oline, but for someone to actually say you cannot do it because of the money we put into the defense, RB, QB, and TE is BS. It can be done, and it has been done. Time to just do it, focus on guys who can pass block. Right now we only care about run blocking, if they are great run blockers but poor pass blocking they like them. Here is an idea how about they are really good at both. Not great just really good. It can be done.

Why do we want to be like any of those teams, again? We've got a Super Bowl ring and almost another doing it our way, as much as it hurt watching the O-line struggle in pass pro.

I mean, you suggest we be like Dallas, but it took them 4 or 5 years of crappy play and high draft picks to build their offense and that may have only lasted 1 year, now, with losing Murray to free agency. Even then they didn't have the success we did last year.

I think I get what you saying. I want to see better pass protection as well, but the formula is working. It's hard to argue against that.

because if we do nothing to improve the oline pass blocking then sooner or later Wilson will get hurt and then we will be out of the playoffs. Its pretty simple.

Maybe we should run the ball less, too, to reduce the chance Lynch gets hurt. Without him we're not going much farther than without Russ.

Well since our oline was ranked very high is run blocking not sure why we would. Notice on the left were it says run blocking and we are 4th then the right side were it is pass blocking and we are 24th.

posting.php?mode=quote&f=2&p=1669217

Oh and yes I am sure the 7 mil a year we are into Lynch an RB who is 30+ is more important than the 22 milk we are into Wilson who is 26 with 10 years left. I mean really you cannot be that silly. IT is far far easier to find a great RB than a great QB.

 

[Overseasfan]

A lot of people here use the terms "great" and "top" too easily. Dallas for example have a horrible RB core. Randle and mcfadden aren't even top 20 worthy. Their defense, especially LB and DB, is average at best.