Pick #69, Tyler Lockett, WR/KR/Gunner, KSU

bigskydoc

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I haven't seen tape to show me that he can run crisp routes. Highlight reels won't show you that, you need all 21. He definitely has jukes like Madden 15, but who knows if he can get NFL caliber DBs to bite on them. If he can, then we are in for a treat... IF he can fix the drops.

That being said, I like the pick. The biggest difference between 2014 and 2015 for the Hawks was the PR yardage. These are critical yards in the kind of field position game plan espoused by Carroll. It cost us big time this year even if we ultimately overcame that deficit.

I also enjoy imagining the discussion between opponenet blockers and their coach after a hit like this by one of the Lockett(e) boys

IncredibleWanBuck.gif


Cropped SF

Coach - Damnit Jim, I told you to be sure and block Lockett
Jim - Which one Coach? They was a Lockett(e) coming at me from both sides.

-bsd
 

HuskerHawk

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Literally watch any K-State game from the past two years and you'll see he is a fantastic route runner. He's always open, and consistently deep, despite being pretty much their only receiving threat. You have to watch full games. The cutups available online are not representative of his game, and even then he looks pretty good.
 

theincrediblesok

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bigskydoc":2hk9jcgy said:
I haven't seen tape to show me that he can run crisp routes. Highlight reels won't show you that, you need all 21. He definitely has jukes like Madden 15, but who knows if he can get NFL caliber DBs to bite on them. If he can, then we are in for a treat... IF he can fix the drops.

That being said, I like the pick. The biggest difference between 2014 and 2015 for the Hawks was the PR yardage. These are critical yards in the kind of field position game plan espoused by Carroll. It cost us big time this year even if we ultimately overcame that deficit.

I also enjoy imagining the discussion between opponenet blockers and their coach after a hit like this by one of the Lockett(e) boys

IncredibleWanBuck.gif


Cropped SF

Coach - Damnit Jim, I told you to be sure and block Lockett
Jim - Which one Coach? They was a Lockett(e) coming at me from both sides.

-bsd

You mean the all-22 tape that scouts and talent evaluators looked at, or was at a game where they saw it in action? They said Tyler and Amari Cooper have the best route running out of the draft.
 

rideaducati

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vin.couve12":1mqezasc said:
Spin Doctor":1mqezasc said:
Hasselbeck":1mqezasc said:
What if I told you Lockett had the same measurables as Golden Tate in the combine.. save for about 10 lbs (which he can easily put on in an NFL workout program) and hand size?

Lockett is probably a better route runner than Tate was coming out of college as well.

But if you watch Lockett's film and compare it to Tate's in college .. (KEYWORD: COLLEGE.. since I think many people have clouded memories of Tate thanks to this season and the Super Bowl season) .. they are very, very similar.

I get it.. we all clamored for that 6-3 .. 6-4 .. 6-5 monster. Hell I was foaming at the mouth for DGB. But Tyler Lockett can play and he will instantly have an effect on this team simply with his return skills. It's a huge difference fair catching everything as opposed to getting 10-20 extra yards for a drive.. sometimes more than that.
I said this earlier, and I'll say this again -- Tate and Lockett do NOT have that much in common, especially coming out of college.
They're really nothing alike at all.

I hope they are not alike. I don't want Lockett to take three years before he sees the field like Tate did.
 

SomersetHawk

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Not seen too many players who gain separation as consistently as Lockett and have his elusiveness. He's special, wanted him badly but gave up hope going off of our drafting tendencies, we broke a lot of those with this pick and should be very excited about it.
 

massari

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check him out at 1:50.


[youtube]UCAdtzKnIDs[/youtube]
 

bigskydoc

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theincrediblesok":bswr52l8 said:
You mean the all-22 tape that scouts and talent evaluators looked at, or was at a game where they saw it in action? .

Exactly.

theincrediblesok":bswr52l8 said:
They said Tyler and Amari Cooper have the best route running out of the draft

And I am certainly willing to take their word for it.

Just responding to those saying they are seeing great route running skills on the highlight clips. I don't think highlights are a good way to assess this, so I have to take the talent scouts' and Kansas State Fans' word for it. Great moves as seen in the highlights do not necessarily equal great, crisp route running (making your break at the correct spot, at the correct angle and time, with the correct foot, to arrive at the correct spot at the correct time).

Even with great moves, you can run your route too slow, too fast etc. I think that was a big problem with Harvin. He was a Tasmanian Devil with little body control. He could make great moves, and could cut unbelievably quickly. He could go from zero to top speed in the blink of an eye. Give him the ball in a little bit of open space and he breaks ankles everywhere. But he was all ad lib. He would frequently out accelerate his body. On routes, he would go too fast and couldn't make cuts where he was supposed to (when he actually tried to run routes.)

I love the Lockett pickup and hope the scouts are correct. One area I definitely see him excelling is when the play breaks down and Wilson starts ad libbing. Bet we see a lot of DBs on the turf trying to chase this guy around.

- bsd
 

themunn

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theincrediblesok":bb37oklc said:
Spin Doctor, if your talking about the draft specifically then yeah your right Golden has been the only one so far. So before this draft they had drafted 5 WR, and 2 TE and Golden was the best out of the bunch.

Durham's stats weren't good in college, but I guess they like it that he was tall 6'6 WR that ran a 4.46 they took him in the 4th round. He did ok in Detroit when he played with his college teammate, Stafford, but was cut later, now playing for the Titans.

Chris Harper was that one guy I was hoping would break out for us but after reading about him and what had happened during his stint with the Seahawks and 49ers it was clear he was a me me type of guy who blamed everyone else besides his own ability to perform. I think he realized that part of him and became more humble, now he's just a special team's player for the Packers.

Anthony Mccoy, injured most of his career, mostly as as another blocker, did do great when no one is focusing on him and Wilson lobs it up to him.

Luke Willson is used when there is a specific match they can exploit with his speed, other than that he's been ok, but he hasn't played alot of football in college, again mensurables the Seahawks like was his length and speed.

Kevin Norwood doesn't have crazy stats either in college, what they liked about him was that he works great with a scrambling QB and is clutch when it comes to the big play that needs to get made. He didn't get enough time to shine as they barely used him last season.

All those guys didn't have stellar stats in college, they weren't even production machines. What they were, we move the chains type of players in college. The Seahawks picked them due to certain skills set, heights, speed, etc. It seems like with each year they draft an offensive weapon to counter a certain weakness their team lacked.

Here's the interesting part. After getting those guys they starting looking for guys that have huge productions in their college and who was the single threat. Who was the guy they drafted that had these same aspect, Golden Tate. Both of these next guys were the only factor in their school, and that means schools would double team and game plan against that one individual player.

Richardson was the only productive WR at Colorado and was a burner, Pete had said they were always looking for speed to help set up the run which helps set up the deep pass. He said it in his town meeting before the beginning of last season. Richardson was looking great before his injury, I haven't ruled him out as being a failed WR prospect yet as he didn't get a ton of chance to play, especially with the Harvin fiasco. It was weird that we barely used him in the deep plays, i think he had maybe 2 attempts, but mostly used for the underneath stuff. We won't know how he responds when he comes back from the ACL recovery since that was his 2nd in his lifetime.

Tyler Lockett pretty much the center piece for Kansas State, teams double team and game-planned for this kid and he still finds a way to beat them. Highly productive. Returns kicks and punt. He will make an immediate impact.

It looks like we are going for guys that are highly productive in school while having one elite skills in one or another form, being Richardson with his speed and Tyler with his Returns. One of these guys have to panned out but even if one of them ends up being really good then I will be thrilled.

I'm not saying that everyone with a subpar college stats wouldn't be good in the NFL for example Randall Cobb who wasn't a production machine (in pass yardage) out of Kentucky but what he did have was versatility and those versatility produces TDs. Guess who else played with Randall in 2009 and 2010, Chris Matthews.

I don't get the whole idea of excluding UDFAs from the mix. From our superbowl receivers last year, Kearse, Lockette, Baldwin and Helfet were all originally picked up by us immediately following the draft. Willson and Norwood were drafted by us and Matthews picked up from the CFL. Walters and Moeaki were the only two pass catchers on the Superbowl 53 man roster that had played a snap for another NFL team.

Does it matter if PC/JS decided that they could get Durham in the 4th round and Baldwin as an UDFA? They wanted to get both on the team and they spent what they thought they needed to do for it.
You need to look at what you've got entering the team as a whole in September.

If you enter day 1 of the season with 5+ rookies contributing on a team that made successive superbowls then you can look at your draft as a positive success. It doesn't matter if all 5 of them come from the UDFA pool or you hit on your first 5 picks.
 

Scottemojo

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It's worth mentioning that two reasons Richardson started so slowly was that he was a two speed player, stop, go, and he was not a reliable red line player. He got better at both as the season wore on.

Lockette looks to me like he is already good at both. Lots of red line plays, and he knows how to regulate his speed so he breaks his routes just as he gets a DBs hips turned. It is fun to watch. Tate never, not even at his best, ran routes like that, and Baldwin has always had those moves, but not that speed.

None of this addresses the boom or bust nature of our offense, but hopefully the Graham addition does that and the Lockette addition takes advantage of the attention Graham will draw.
 

SeatownJay

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Donk70":bs2iieh2 said:
Can we throw him back in the pond til he gets bigger? I'm tired of these Smurf WRs. We need a big body to take the double team off of Graham in the end zone.
That guy is already on the roster. His name is Chris Matthews. 6'5", 218 lbs, had 4 catches for 109 yards and TD in the Super Bowl.
 

JimmyG

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Seahawk Sailor":1oi38ih9 said:
LTH":1oi38ih9 said:
Did they over pay? it really doesnt matter if they got the players they wanted...

Well, I've heard a lot of pundits had him as the second-best receiver in the draft, and Pete was shocked he was still available when we traded up to take him. Sounds to me like he was borderline first round material.
Wait, what? Second-best receiver of the draft? I've heard people refer to him as the second-best route runner of the draft, but second best overall? I haven't heard that a single time. Cooper was the consensus top receiver in the draft... you're telling me you've heard people that had him ranked higher than Kevin White, DeVante Parker, etc???
 

vonstout

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kearly":2rm1wuge said:
Smellyman":2rm1wuge said:
This guy REALLY likes Lockett. A lot of gifs.

some profane language...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Texans/comments/346m4u/draft_talk_tuesday_the_grand_finale/

The best part? Seattle traded up 26 spots to take Lockett, RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE TEXANS, who took a different WR the next pick.

The fan who wrote that analysis was a diehard Texans fan. I bet he raged pretty good.

I wanted Lockett from the start. I wish they would have taken him at #63 and waited to their third round pick for Clark. It sounds like a lot of teams took Clark off their boards completely. If they wanted him bad enough, they could have traded up a little bit, but I doubt they would have had to go up nearly as far as they did for Lockett (my opinion). That could have given us at least one more pick to take someone like Tre McBride or one of the other taller WRs. I'm happy with what we got, but it might have been better.
 

London12

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Can someone please explain what a gunner is to this foreigner? I thought it was something to do with blocking on PR/KR but he's apparently doing the returning so I'm stumped.

Anyway, for me his footwork looks great for separation meaning he doesn't need to be 9 foot 6.
 

Seanhawk

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London12":3d2ivgws said:
Can someone please explain what a gunner is to this foreigner? I thought it was something to do with blocking on PR/KR but he's apparently doing the returning so I'm stumped.

Anyway, for me his footwork looks great for separation meaning he doesn't need to be 9 foot 6.

The gunner is a player split out wide on the punt team and the guy you want to get to the returner first to make the tackle or force a fair catch.
 

London12

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Seanhawk":207z2ygp said:
London12":207z2ygp said:
Can someone please explain what a gunner is to this foreigner? I thought it was something to do with blocking on PR/KR but he's apparently doing the returning so I'm stumped.

Anyway, for me his footwork looks great for separation meaning he doesn't need to be 9 foot 6.

The gunner is a player split out wide on the punt team and the guy you want to get to the returner first to make the tackle or force a fair catch.

Ahh got it, thanks.
 

Seahawk Sailor

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JimmyG":31dpxdw6 said:
Seahawk Sailor":31dpxdw6 said:
LTH":31dpxdw6 said:
Did they over pay? it really doesnt matter if they got the players they wanted...

Well, I've heard a lot of pundits had him as the second-best receiver in the draft, and Pete was shocked he was still available when we traded up to take him. Sounds to me like he was borderline first round material.
Wait, what? Second-best receiver of the draft? I've heard people refer to him as the second-best route runner of the draft, but second best overall? I haven't heard that a single time. Cooper was the consensus top receiver in the draft... you're telling me you've heard people that had him ranked higher than Kevin White, DeVante Parker, etc???

I dunno. I'm nowhere near the draftnik a lot of guys are, but once you get past a consensus #1 or even consensus top three or so, opinions start varying. The guys that are going to rank polish and route running higher are going to say he's the second best, while the guys that value other skills are going to say the other guys are. Just saying that I saw a lot of people pretty high on him as a really great receiver in this draft.

The one thing we've been lacking for as long as I can remember is a receiver who comes out of the draft and immediately has an impact his rookie season. We see it elsewhere in the league all the time. Rookie receivers who gain big yardage and a number of touchdowns, but never with the Seahawks. With our style of play, that's exceedingly unlikely, but Lockett looks to me like if anyone can do that, it's him. We'll see, but I like this pick a lot.
 

theincrediblesok

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Seahawk Sailor":1l2iez4a said:
JimmyG":1l2iez4a said:
Seahawk Sailor":1l2iez4a said:
LTH":1l2iez4a said:
Did they over pay? it really doesnt matter if they got the players they wanted...

Well, I've heard a lot of pundits had him as the second-best receiver in the draft, and Pete was shocked he was still available when we traded up to take him. Sounds to me like he was borderline first round material.
Wait, what? Second-best receiver of the draft? I've heard people refer to him as the second-best route runner of the draft, but second best overall? I haven't heard that a single time. Cooper was the consensus top receiver in the draft... you're telling me you've heard people that had him ranked higher than Kevin White, DeVante Parker, etc???

I dunno. I'm nowhere near the draftnik a lot of guys are, but once you get past a consensus #1 or even consensus top three or so, opinions start varying. The guys that are going to rank polish and route running higher are going to say he's the second best, while the guys that value other skills are going to say the other guys are. Just saying that I saw a lot of people pretty high on him as a really great receiver in this draft.

The one thing we've been lacking for as long as I can remember is a receiver who comes out of the draft and immediately has an impact his rookie season. We see it elsewhere in the league all the time. Rookie receivers who gain big yardage and a number of touchdowns, but never with the Seahawks. With our style of play, that's exceedingly unlikely, but Lockett looks to me like if anyone can do that, it's him. We'll see, but I like this pick a lot.

I just watched a youtube video that had the guy put out as his Top 15 WR and Tyler Lockett wasn't even in his Top 15 and then it hit me, all the guys he listed were tall (6'1 and up), even if they didn't have good route running and unconsistent they were still ranked Top 15 for him. He did have one guy listed at 5'10 on his top 15 but that dude's weakness was not quick enough to separate or even a good route runner. Some people just like the tall WR and will go to bat for them. Others would like the pure route runners and will go to bat for them. They both are great weapons to have, and the funny thing is we will have a combination of both those threats this season, and add those to the running game, if things click we could be Top 5 offense.
 

Ad Hawk

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London12":3mmirbv7 said:
Seanhawk":3mmirbv7 said:
London12":3mmirbv7 said:
Can someone please explain what a gunner is to this foreigner? I thought it was something to do with blocking on PR/KR but he's apparently doing the returning so I'm stumped.

Anyway, for me his footwork looks great for separation meaning he doesn't need to be 9 foot 6.

The gunner is a player split out wide on the punt team and the guy you want to get to the returner first to make the tackle or force a fair catch.

Ahh got it, thanks.

I'm glad you actually asked.

There are many who might feel intimidated on this board showing their ignorance of some portion of the game. There is nothing wrong with not yet being informed, and this is a great place to find the answers.

Keep enjoying the game!
 

therealjohncarlson

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theincrediblesok":31haokfd said:
I just watched a youtube video that had the guy put out as his Top 15 WR and Tyler Lockett wasn't even in his Top 15 and then it hit me, all the guys he listed were tall (6'1 and up), even if they didn't have good route running and unconsistent they were still ranked Top 15 for him. He did have one guy listed at 5'10 on his top 15 but that dude's weakness was not quick enough to separate or even a good route runner. Some people just like the tall WR and will go to bat for them. Others would like the pure route runners and will go to bat for them. They both are great weapons to have, and the funny thing is we will have a combination of both those threats this season, and add those to the running game, if things click we could be Top 5 offense.

"This guy put out"

Theres your answer
 
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