PFF: Highest Forced Missed Tackle %...

[Marvin49]

...none of which has ANYTHING to do with your assertion that he's to slow and sluggish to avoid getting tackled in the backfield.

The 4.0 yard average per carry means absolutely nothing because we've already said he has some issues to work on relating to vision and patience. I'd also add that at times he doesn't get low enough and tacklers can get under him and push him back.

Your assertion tho is that he's too slow and sluggish and THATS why he gets tackled so often behind the line of scrimmage. We've shown proof of how ludicrous the notion is so don't try to move the goalposts yet again in another attempt to be "right".

LOL, what proof have you offered that Hyde isn't slower than the average NFL back?

I don't need to. Your assertion is that his slowness and lack of quickness are the reason he gets caught in the backfield. Use your eyes in those videos and tell me that's a guy who is too slow and not quick enough to elude tacklers in the backfield. That's YET ANOTHER attempt to move the goalpost.

If that were a Seahawk and I as a Niner fan were making that assertion you'd find it absolutely comical.

Now...pure straight-line speed? I'd say he's anywhere from a 4.5 to 4.6 guy when healthy and that ain't bad at all considering his size. His quickness for that size tho is pretty damn good and nowhere near "sluggish". Does he have elite speed? Of course not. Nobody is saying otherwise.

On the contrary, we have (1) the multitude of plays in college for which he gained a reputation for his lack of speed, (2) he appeared to be lumbering out of the backfield on most of his 83 carries last year, (3) his 4.66 40 time, (4) his 1.69 10-yard split, and (5) the fact that he, along with other lumbering backs, was hit in the backfield more than average, in fact at a higher rate than any other back in the league and 10% more than Gore was.

You choose to disregard all this evidence, for various B.S. reasons, but you offer nothing in return except a few select gif's proving nothing about his speed.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

I'M ignoring "evidence"? Seriously? Unreal dude.

Please explain how in the vids I've included (you know, the ones that aren't Frank Gore) show him doing the precise things you are saying he can't do?

Please explain how national reporters who are watching him see no evidence of the slowness and sluggishness you suggest.

Please explain to me why the PFF articles that you are linking to make no reference to those traits.

Please explain to me that the draft publications that talk about his speed are talking about his LONG speed, not sluggishness.

Seriously dude...this is way too easy.

 

[hawknation2015]

LOL, what proof have you offered that Hyde isn't slower than the average NFL back?

I don't need to. Your assertion is that his slowness and lack of quickness are the reason he gets caught in the backfield. Use your eyes in those videos and tell me that's a guy who is too slow and not quick enough to elude tacklers in the backfield. That's YET ANOTHER attempt to move the goalpost.

If that were a Seahawk and I as a Niner fan were making that assertion you'd find it absolutely comical.

Now...pure straight-line speed? I'd say he's anywhere from a 4.5 to 4.6 guy when healthy and that ain't bad at all considering his size. His quickness for that size tho is pretty damn good and nowhere near "sluggish". Does he have elite speed? Of course not. Nobody is saying otherwise.

On the contrary, we have (1) the multitude of plays in college for which he gained a reputation for his lack of speed, (2) he appeared to be lumbering out of the backfield on most of his 83 carries last year, (3) his 4.66 40 time, (4) his 1.69 10-yard split, and (5) the fact that he, along with other lumbering backs, was hit in the backfield more than average, in fact at a higher rate than any other back in the league and 10% more than Gore was.

You choose to disregard all this evidence, for various B.S. reasons, but you offer nothing in return except a few select gif's proving nothing about his speed.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

I'M ignoring "evidence"? Seriously? Unreal dude.

Please explain how in the vids I've included (you know, the ones that aren't Frank Gore) show him doing the precise things you are saying he can't do?

Please explain how national reporters who are watching him see no evidence of the slowness and sluggishness you suggest.

Please explain to me why the PFF articles that you are linking to make no reference to those traits.

Please explain to me that the draft publications that talk about his speed are talking about his LONG speed, not sluggishness.

Seriously dude...this is way too easy.

When did I say Hyde couldn't run through a massive hole or use his power to force a missed tackle?

I am saying he is CLEARLY slower than the average back, hence his massive drop in weight this off-season, and that will always affect his ability to consistently generate plays beyond two yards. Will he have a sprinkle of 20+ yard runs? Sure, but they will be counteracted by the more voluminous number of runs of two yards or less, due to his lack of speed.

I have offered quite a lot of obvious evidence of Hyde's lack of speed, and still all you can provide are some irrelevant gif's that do not even display great speed out of the backfield.

 

[Marvin49]

I don't need to. Your assertion is that his slowness and lack of quickness are the reason he gets caught in the backfield. Use your eyes in those videos and tell me that's a guy who is too slow and not quick enough to elude tacklers in the backfield. That's YET ANOTHER attempt to move the goalpost.

If that were a Seahawk and I as a Niner fan were making that assertion you'd find it absolutely comical.

Now...pure straight-line speed? I'd say he's anywhere from a 4.5 to 4.6 guy when healthy and that ain't bad at all considering his size. His quickness for that size tho is pretty damn good and nowhere near "sluggish". Does he have elite speed? Of course not. Nobody is saying otherwise.

On the contrary, we have (1) the multitude of plays in college for which he gained a reputation for his lack of speed, (2) he appeared to be lumbering out of the backfield on most of his 83 carries last year, (3) his 4.66 40 time, (4) his 1.69 10-yard split, and (5) the fact that he, along with other lumbering backs, was hit in the backfield more than average, in fact at a higher rate than any other back in the league and 10% more than Gore was.

You choose to disregard all this evidence, for various B.S. reasons, but you offer nothing in return except a few select gif's proving nothing about his speed.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

I'M ignoring "evidence"? Seriously? Unreal dude.

Please explain how in the vids I've included (you know, the ones that aren't Frank Gore) show him doing the precise things you are saying he can't do?

Please explain how national reporters who are watching him see no evidence of the slowness and sluggishness you suggest.

Please explain to me why the PFF articles that you are linking to make no reference to those traits.

Please explain to me that the draft publications that talk about his speed are talking about his LONG speed, not sluggishness.

Seriously dude...this is way too easy.

When did I say Hyde couldn't run through a massive hole or use his power to force a missed tackle?

I am saying he is CLEARLY slower than the average back, hence his massive drop in weight this off-season, and that will always affect his ability to consistently generate plays beyond two yards. Will he have a sprinkle of 20+ yard runs? Sure, but they will be counteracted by the more voluminous number of runs of two yards or less, due to his lack of speed.

Which again isn't what we were talking about. Again you are moving the goalposts.

I think you are totally wrong BTW in regards to his speed an quickness, but that's a different conversation. What we've been arguing all along was that it was his lack of speed and sluggishness that caused him to so often get caught in the backfield.

ANYONE who actually watched those games would know that's completely false.

...and in SEVERAL of those videos he's escaping with LATERAL SPEED, not power...particularly that redskins run. Also the Dallas run. And the TD vs the Saints where he cuts back...tho both of those were beyond the LOS.

 

[hawknation2015]

On the contrary, we have (1) the multitude of plays in college for which he gained a reputation for his lack of speed, (2) he appeared to be lumbering out of the backfield on most of his 83 carries last year, (3) his 4.66 40 time, (4) his 1.69 10-yard split, and (5) the fact that he, along with other lumbering backs, was hit in the backfield more than average, in fact at a higher rate than any other back in the league and 10% more than Gore was.

You choose to disregard all this evidence, for various B.S. reasons, but you offer nothing in return except a few select gif's proving nothing about his speed.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

I'M ignoring "evidence"? Seriously? Unreal dude.

Please explain how in the vids I've included (you know, the ones that aren't Frank Gore) show him doing the precise things you are saying he can't do?

Please explain how national reporters who are watching him see no evidence of the slowness and sluggishness you suggest.

Please explain to me why the PFF articles that you are linking to make no reference to those traits.

Please explain to me that the draft publications that talk about his speed are talking about his LONG speed, not sluggishness.

Seriously dude...this is way too easy.

When did I say Hyde couldn't run through a massive hole or use his power to force a missed tackle?

I am saying he is CLEARLY slower than the average back, hence his massive drop in weight this off-season, and that will always affect his ability to consistently generate plays beyond two yards. Will he have a sprinkle of 20+ yard runs? Sure, but they will be counteracted by the more voluminous number of runs of two yards or less, due to his lack of speed.

Which again isn't what we were talking about. Again you are moving the goalposts.

I think you are totally wrong BTW in regards to his speed an quickness, but that's a different conversation. What we've been arguing all along was that it was his lack of speed and sluggishness that caused him to so often get caught in the backfield.

ANYONE who actually watched those games would know that's completely false.

You think you can say that definitively based on a few select plays of 83 total and a cumulative average of 4.0 yards per carry? Your evidence for Hyde's supposed speed is extremely weak.

Pretty amazing that you can't even acknowledge the undeniable fact that speed can affect how often a back is hit in the backfield, hence the most frequently hit players in the backfield being those bigger backs who lack an initial burst of speed.

 

[Marvin49]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

I'M ignoring "evidence"? Seriously? Unreal dude.

Please explain how in the vids I've included (you know, the ones that aren't Frank Gore) show him doing the precise things you are saying he can't do?

Please explain how national reporters who are watching him see no evidence of the slowness and sluggishness you suggest.

Please explain to me why the PFF articles that you are linking to make no reference to those traits.

Please explain to me that the draft publications that talk about his speed are talking about his LONG speed, not sluggishness.

Seriously dude...this is way too easy.

When did I say Hyde couldn't run through a massive hole or use his power to force a missed tackle?

I am saying he is CLEARLY slower than the average back, hence his massive drop in weight this off-season, and that will always affect his ability to consistently generate plays beyond two yards. Will he have a sprinkle of 20+ yard runs? Sure, but they will be counteracted by the more voluminous number of runs of two yards or less, due to his lack of speed.

Which again isn't what we were talking about. Again you are moving the goalposts.

I think you are totally wrong BTW in regards to his speed an quickness, but that's a different conversation. What we've been arguing all along was that it was his lack of speed and sluggishness that caused him to so often get caught in the backfield.

ANYONE who actually watched those games would know that's completely false.

You think you can say that definitively based on a few select plays of 83 total and a cumulative average of 4.0 yards per carry? Your evidence for Hyde's supposed speed is extremely weak.

Pretty amazing that you can't even acknowledge the undeniable fact that speed can affect how often a back is hit in the backfield, hence the most frequently hit players in the backfield being those bigger backs who lack speed.

No I can say that because I WATCHED EVERY SINGLE CARRY. I can say that because I PAID ATTENTION to him every single time he was in the game.

Pretty amazing to me that despite the vids that are coinnected here you still can't see you're wrong...or more likely that you simply won't admit it.

Funniest part now is your new "go-to" is to quote the 4.0 average when both Popeye and myself have ALREADY said he has issues to work on, some we don't know if he can work through, but they simply aren't the ones you are stating as the cause of his problems.

 

[hawknation2015]

When did I say Hyde couldn't run through a massive hole or use his power to force a missed tackle?

I am saying he is CLEARLY slower than the average back, hence his massive drop in weight this off-season, and that will always affect his ability to consistently generate plays beyond two yards. Will he have a sprinkle of 20+ yard runs? Sure, but they will be counteracted by the more voluminous number of runs of two yards or less, due to his lack of speed.

Which again isn't what we were talking about. Again you are moving the goalposts.

I think you are totally wrong BTW in regards to his speed an quickness, but that's a different conversation. What we've been arguing all along was that it was his lack of speed and sluggishness that caused him to so often get caught in the backfield.

ANYONE who actually watched those games would know that's completely false.

You think you can say that definitively based on a few select plays of 83 total and a cumulative average of 4.0 yards per carry? Your evidence for Hyde's supposed speed is extremely weak.

Pretty amazing that you can't even acknowledge the undeniable fact that speed can affect how often a back is hit in the backfield, hence the most frequently hit players in the backfield being those bigger backs who lack speed.

No I can say that because I WATCHED EVERY SINGLE CARRY. I can say that because I PAID ATTENTION to him every single time he was in the game.

Pretty amazing to me that despite the vids that are coinnected here you still can't see you're wrong...or more likely that you simply won't admit it.

Funniest part now is your new "go-to" is to quote the 4.0 average when both Popeye and myself have ALREADY said he has issues to work on, some we don't know if he can work through, but they simply aren't the ones you are stating as the cause of his problems.

I also watched every carry, as I enjoy watching your team lose. And I did not see any evidence for Hyde's supposed speed in those 83 carries. In fact, I witnessed just the opposite.

As a Whiner fan, you have to hope losing another 10 lbs will improve Hyde's speed without sacrificing power.

 

[Marvin49]

Which again isn't what we were talking about. Again you are moving the goalposts.

I think you are totally wrong BTW in regards to his speed an quickness, but that's a different conversation. What we've been arguing all along was that it was his lack of speed and sluggishness that caused him to so often get caught in the backfield.

ANYONE who actually watched those games would know that's completely false.

You think you can say that definitively based on a few select plays of 83 total and a cumulative average of 4.0 yards per carry? Your evidence for Hyde's supposed speed is extremely weak.

Pretty amazing that you can't even acknowledge the undeniable fact that speed can affect how often a back is hit in the backfield, hence the most frequently hit players in the backfield being those bigger backs who lack speed.

No I can say that because I WATCHED EVERY SINGLE CARRY. I can say that because I PAID ATTENTION to him every single time he was in the game.

Pretty amazing to me that despite the vids that are coinnected here you still can't see you're wrong...or more likely that you simply won't admit it.

Funniest part now is your new "go-to" is to quote the 4.0 average when both Popeye and myself have ALREADY said he has issues to work on, some we don't know if he can work through, but they simply aren't the ones you are stating as the cause of his problems.

I also watched every carry, as I enjoy watching your team lose. And I did not see any evidence for Hyde's supposed speed in those 83 carries. In fact, I witnessed just the opposite.

As a Whiner fan, you have to hope losing another 10 lbs will improve Hyde's speed without sacrificing power.

Translated:

"I have nothing left to say".

If THIS guy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EV9Z_5kG40

is considered by you to be "too slow and lumbering" then I just dunno what to say. I think you are letting your hate take you to ridiculous places.

 

[hawknation2015]

Translated:

"I have nothing left to say".

If THIS guy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EV9Z_5kG40

is considered by you to be "too slow and lumbering" then I just dunno what to say. I think you are letting your hate take you to ridiculous places.

Yes, lumbering is an excellent way to describe that highlight reel.

 

[rideaducati]

Translated:

"I have nothing left to say".

If THIS guy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EV9Z_5kG40

is considered by you to be "too slow and lumbering" then I just dunno what to say. I think you are letting your hate take you to ridiculous places.

Yes, lumbering is an excellent way to describe that highlight reel.

I see a lumbering guy in that video too. He looked A LOT faster against the Saints than any other team in that video. There's nothing wrong with a lumbering back and he does have some pretty good cutting ability, but I don't think he'll be much more than a "three yards and a cloud of dust" back.

 

[Sports Hernia]

I'll put money down on all my online predictions when Marvin puts money down on his 10+ win prediction for the Whiners.

Still waiting for someone to show me a link of where I did that.

I believe that I did, just don't remember the context.

Found it in 2 min. via google . . .
http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niner ... n-2015-16/

Marvin49:
"..but I'm an optimist so I'll say 10. I don' think the team has been damaged nearly as badly as fans and media let on."

Caught red handed.... Ouch...... LOL! :th2thumbs:

 

[purpleneer]

Translated:

"I have nothing left to say".

If THIS guy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EV9Z_5kG40

is considered by you to be "too slow and lumbering" then I just dunno what to say. I think you are letting your hate take you to ridiculous places.

Yes, lumbering is an excellent way to describe that highlight reel.

I see a lumbering guy in that video too. He looked A LOT faster against the Saints than any other team in that video. There's nothing wrong with a lumbering back and he does have some pretty good cutting ability, but I don't think he'll be much more than a "three yards and a cloud of dust" back.

You guys can't honestly agree with what you're saying, can you?

 

[Popeyejones]

he does have some pretty good cutting ability, but I don't think he'll be much more than a "three yards and a cloud of dust" back.

:lol: :lol:

Ah, yes, that grand tradition of "three yards and a could of dust" backs with good cutting ability.

 

[hawknation2015]

he does have some pretty good cutting ability, but I don't think he'll be much more than a "three yards and a cloud of dust" back.

:lol: :lol:

Ah, yes, that grand tradition of "three yards and a could of dust" backs with good cutting ability.

How about 3.9 yards and a cloud of dust?

 

[Popeyejones]

Set the terms of the bet, partner.

Cash, avatars, tag lines, anything.

Below 4.0 was your prediction, and I think it's a really fair bet (unless of course you were just wolfing about below 4.0, which I don't see why you would be).

 

[RichNhansom]

I wouldn't take the bet because for one, 4.0 is well below average and if the season goes like many think the 9ers will often be playing catch up which forces an offense into passing mode. Defences adjust to stop the pass or big play and the RB benefits with gaudy stats that look good but are often meaningless.

I did notice in games were Hyde had more carries his average is mostly lower. That could change or it could be a sign of defences adjusting to him.

For the record Turbin has averaged 4.0 over his first three years in a similar role but I don't see any Seahawk fans excited about him replacing Lynch. I also doubt Turbin will ever be a premier back in this league.

 

[Marvin49]

I wouldn't take the bet because for one, 4.0 is well below average and if the season goes like many think the 9ers will often be playing catch up which forces an offense into passing mode. Defences adjust to stop the pass or big play and the RB benefits with gaudy stats that look good but are often meaningless.

I did notice in games were Hyde had more carries his average is mostly lower. That could change or it could be a sign of defences adjusting to him.

For the record Turbin has averaged 4.0 over his first three years in a similar role but I don't see any Seahawk fans excited about him replacing Lynch. I also doubt Turbin will ever be a premier back in this league.

Marshawn isn't 32 and clearly slowing down either. I love Frank. He and JT are probably my favorite Niners ever, but it was time.

The excitement over Hyde has to do with just wanting to give the guy a shot to be the next guy. None of us fail to recognize some of the issues he has or the challenges that face him...we just disagree with the characterization of him being put forth in this thread.

I agree with you on Turbin, but he's also had a lot more opportunity thus far to show what he could do.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Set the terms of the bet, partner.

Cash, avatars, tag lines, anything.

Below 4.0 was your prediction, and I think it's a really fair bet (unless of course you were just wolfing about below 4.0, which I don't see why you would be).

Being the betting man I am I hate being the party pooper in this situation, but if you guys are going to bet $$$, it's going to have to be offline as betting cash is against forum rules. If you want to do avatars or sig lines as long as they are good taste that would be acceptable. Thanks!

 

[Hasselbeck]

In the second matchup against SF, I thought a huge reason we eventually pulled away in the game was Hyde getting hurt and missing the majority of the second half.

He's a big improvement over Frank Gore IMO (who for some reason is being lauded as some amazing back for the Colts, I guess because of Trent Richardson) .. fortunately the 49ers OL took a major step back this offseason losing Iupati and Davis.

 

[Marvin49]

In the second matchup against SF, I thought a huge reason we eventually pulled away in the game was Hyde getting hurt and missing the majority of the second half.

He's a big improvement over Frank Gore IMO (who for some reason is being lauded as some amazing back for the Colts, I guess because of Trent Richardson) .. fortunately the 49ers OL took a major step back this offseason losing Iupati and Davis.

...and that was the last he played all year. Didn't return after that injury.

 

[Popeyejones]

Set the terms of the bet, partner.

Cash, avatars, tag lines, anything.

Below 4.0 was your prediction, and I think it's a really fair bet (unless of course you were just wolfing about below 4.0, which I don't see why you would be).

Being the betting man I am I hate being the party pooper in this situation, but if you guys are going to bet $$$, it's going to have to be offline as betting cash is against forum rules. If you want to do avatars or sig lines as long as they are good taste that would be acceptable. Thanks!

Didn't know. Thanks for the heads up. :th2thumbs:

I wouldn't worry about any type of bet actually happening, though.