PFF: Highest Forced Missed Tackle %...

[hawknation2015]

He is dropping weight to increase explosiveness and speed.

Hook, line, and sinker.

:th2thumbs:

 

[Marvin49]

He is dropping weight to increase explosiveness and speed.

Hook, line, and sinker.

:th2thumbs:

Sigh. I'm done. Enormous waste of time.

 

[Exittium]

Wish this thread could be moved to the "things that are funny" thread.. because the ending from Hawknation was amusing. the spnning done by marvin.. kudos.

 

[hawknation2015]

He is dropping weight to increase explosiveness and speed.

Hook, line, and sinker.

:th2thumbs:

Sigh. I'm done. Enormous waste of time.

Of course, you're "done." Just like Kaepernick attempting to radically alter his mechanics does not mean he had a serious problem with those, we are supposed to believe that Hyde dropping his weight to 220 lbs does not mean he had a serious problem with his speed. You are always good for a laugh.

When LenDale White dropped down to 220 lbs, it didn't end up helping him, as he had sacrificed the power that had made him a decent player in the pursuit of better speed. We will have to wait and see how the new slimmed down Hyde plays.

 

[Exittium]

Petty arguments aside - Am I the only one who thinks Marshawn is a lock for the hall? He's a maniac.

If he isn't its because he's a hawk :sarcasm_on: In all seriousness though I agree.

 

[hawknation2015]

Petty arguments aside - Am I the only one who thinks Marshawn is a lock for the hall? He's a maniac.

He's getting there . . . 1,305 yards away from the 10,000-yards club. If he plays out this contract, amasses over 12,000 yards and 100 TDs, then he is definitely a lock.

Right now, he would have to rely on having led his team to two Super Bowls and other non-traditional measures for RBs, i.e. broken tackles.

 

[Marvin49]

Petty arguments aside - Am I the only one who thinks Marshawn is a lock for the hall? He's a maniac.

...and I'm back. Just stepping back to answer this one.

He's got my vote, but I'm kinda biased because I've always liked him. Tough to get in these days tho.

 

[Hawks46]

Petty arguments aside - Am I the only one who thinks Marshawn is a lock for the hall? He's a maniac.

He's getting there . . . 1,305 yards away from the 10,000-yards club. If he plays out this contract, amasses over 12,000 yards and 100 TDs, then he is definitely a lock.

Right now, he would have to rely on having led his team to two Super Bowls and other non-traditional measures for RBs, i.e. broken tackles.

He's going to need another 3 years of this production I think.

The two things that will get him in are TD's, and being the best RB in playoff history. The Hawks will keep getting to the playoffs, and Lynch will keep going off during them, so no one is going to be able to touch Lynch's post season numbers for a long time, if ever...the way the league is going.

 

[rlkats]

Petty arguments aside - Am I the only one who thinks Marshawn is a lock for the hall? He's a maniac.

He's getting there . . . 1,305 yards away from the 10,000-yards club. If he plays out this contract, amasses over 12,000 yards and 100 TDs, then he is definitely a lock.

Right now, he would have to rely on having led his team to two Super Bowls and other non-traditional measures for RBs, i.e. broken tackles.

He's going to need another 3 years of this production I think.

The two things that will get him in are TD's, and being the best RB in playoff history. The Hawks will keep getting to the playoffs, and Lynch will keep going off during them, so no one is going to be able to touch Lynch's post season numbers for a long time, if ever...the way the league is going.

Absolutely Marshawn should be in. A Great RB with a ring that is a absolute pain in the butt to play against shoukd be in. But will Goddell let him in. The NFL big wigs dont like him because he will not kiss their tail.

 

[SF49r]

Pretty funny how Lynch's numbers just tour above anyone else on that list.

Hyde and Robinson are working off a very small sample size, where a couple plays can skew their overall numbers. Andre Ellington went from fifth best with limited carries to 2nd worst as his carries increased.

PFF had another article from a couple days ago that showed Hyde leading the league in being hit in the backfield, presumably due to his lack of speed and explosiveness. If you are getting hit in the backfield more than anyone else (29% of the time), it makes sense that he would have the maximum number of opportunities to break tackles on limited carries. Let's see what happens to those numbers as his carries increase.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... backfield/

Hyde? That looks like #21 to me in that GIF

 

[NINEster]

I don't know about you, but a 38 yard run against the Seattle defense at Century Link on 3rd and 5 should shut down the argument about Hyde's potential.

Hyde has shown some very nice glimpses of what he can do for the 49ers. On some of his runs it looks like Gore from 2006.

 

[hawknation2015]

I don't know about you, but a 38 yard run against the Seattle defense at Century Link on 3rd and 5 should shut down the argument about Hyde's potential. End of argument.

Hyde has shown some very nice glimpses of what he can do for the 49ers. On some of his runs it looks like Gore from 2006.

One run means pretty much nothing, see Andre Ellington when his carries increased. Trent Richardson has also had 30+ yard runs.

I want you guys to have hope, to think Hyde is going to be great. That way it's more fun to watch when that hope is smashed.

:stirthepot:

 

[NINEster]

He is dropping weight to increase explosiveness and speed.

Hook, line, and sinker.

:th2thumbs:

Sigh. I'm done. Enormous waste of time.

Man, I wish Jerry Rice had a faster 40 time.

What could have been if he was a 4.4 and not a 4.7 WR....

 

[Popeyejones]

Pretty funny how Lynch's numbers just tour above anyone else on that list.

Hyde and Robinson are working off a very small sample size, where a couple plays can skew their overall numbers. Andre Ellington went from fifth best with limited carries to 2nd worst as his carries increased.

PFF had another article from a couple days ago that showed Hyde leading the league in being hit in the backfield, presumably due to his lack of speed and explosiveness. If you are getting hit in the backfield more than anyone else (29% of the time), it makes sense that he would have the maximum number of opportunities to break tackles on limited carries. Let's see what happens to those numbers as his carries increase.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... backfield/

Hyde? That looks like #21 to me in that GIF

:lol:

I know. The 9ers run game is supposed to suck b/c they let Gore walk, but then a .gif of Gore is used to say that Carlos Hyde lacks speed.

Also, LOL at the idea that RBs get hit in the backfield b/c they lack speed and explosiveness. What a silly proposition. Getting hit in the backffield has always and will always be primarily associated with line play. If anything Hyde could stand to develop MORE patience, not less.

FWIW, from PFF:

Jeff Deeney @PFF_Jeff
Carlos Hyde had the 7th-lowest % of runs of 2 yds or less (38.6%) despite being hit in backfield the most of any RB. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... hs-part-2/ …

Combined with being #2 in the league for broken tackle rate, I think his arrow is pointing up, at least by PFF metrics.

It's of course a small sample size and I'm more concerned about injury with him than anything else, but it's at least getting everything straight when talking about him. Regarding that small sample size though, it's not like he doing anything in this small sample that he wasn't also doing in the much larger sample in college. As a senior he had 208 carries, and lost yardage on less than one half of one percentage of them (yep, a single carry his senior year in which he didn't make it past the LOS).

 

[hawknation2015]

Also, LOL at the idea that RBs get hit in the backfield b/c they lack speed and explosiveness. What a silly proposition. Getting hit in the backffield has always and will always be primarily associated with line play.

Like all running stats, it can be a combination of lack of speed and line play, although the 49ers' line looked awfully good as run blockers last season, and unlike Hyde, Frank Gore did not get caught in the backfield very often. As the PFF article states, "It’s worth noting that Frank Gore was hit behind the line of scrimmage 10% less often than Hyde." I imagine if you, Popeye, were running behind a very good run-blocking OL, you would still get caught in the backfield quite often.

The Seahawks OL was fairly average in their run blocking, certainly not up to the level of last year's 49er OL, yet none of the Seahawks' running backs were caught in the backfield very often.

A closer analysis shows that the backs, who are hit in the backfield the most frequently, are for the most part bigger backs who are not very explosive.

 

[rideaducati]

Also, LOL at the idea that RBs get hit in the backfield b/c they lack speed and explosiveness. What a silly proposition. Getting hit in the backffield has always and will always be primarily associated with line play.

Like all running stats, it can be a combination of lack of speed and line play, although the 49ers' line looked awfully good as run blockers last season, and unlike Hyde, Frank Gore did not get caught in the backfield very often. As the PFF article states, "It’s worth noting that Frank Gore was hit behind the line of scrimmage 10% less often than Hyde." I imagine if you, Popeye, were running behind a very good run-blocking OL, you would still get caught in the backfield quite often.

The Seahawks OL was fairly average in their run blocking, certainly not up to the level of last year's 49er OL, yet none of the Seahawks' running backs were caught in the backfield very often.

A closer analysis shows that the backs, who are hit in the backfield the most frequently, are for the most part bigger backs who are not very explosive.

That looks like a list of backup RB stats.

Since the O-line for the niners will also be revamped and playing in a totally new scheme, I don't see why niner fans EXPECT Hyde to be great. Typical niner fan myopia...because he's a niner, he's gonna be GREAT. Whatever...

 

[RichNhansom]

I don't think any of the stats are all that telling by themselves and Hyde has enough mix of good and bad to really prevent any solid argument. Personally I think he will struggle some this year but not because of speed or power or lack there of. He will be playing behind an O-line that will highly likely not be as talented as last years and that line will be trying to learn a new scheme, language and playbook. Beyond even scheme they will also have to stay healthy and gain cohesiveness. That is a pretty big task and one that will very likely have a serious learning curve.

Hyde himself while learning the new scheme, language and playbook will also likely be the premier back on that roster unless Bush unseats him and that means teams will be game planning for him. Learning his tenancies and scheming to slow him down. Something he has yet to play against in the NFL. If Bush does surpass him as the starter then that is a huge statement about Hyde. Bush when healthy has been decent but he is as injury prone (or more so) than Harvin and definitely not your bell cow back who punishes defenses. Bush is best suited as a #2 back who can slip in and out and make plays in the passing game, more of a scat back. If your coaches believe bush is a better option I wouldn't be so excited as a 9er fan.

 

[Marvin49]

I don't think any of the stats are all that telling by themselves and Hyde has enough mix of good and bad to really prevent any solid argument. Personally I think he will struggle some this year but not because of speed or power or lack there of. He will be playing behind an O-line that will highly likely not be as talented as last years and that line will be trying to learn a new scheme, language and playbook. Beyond even scheme they will also have to stay healthy and gain cohesiveness. That is a pretty big task and one that will very likely have a serious learning curve.

Hyde himself while learning the new scheme, language and playbook will also likely be the premier back on that roster unless Bush unseats him and that means teams will be game planning for him. Learning his tenancies and scheming to slow him down. Something he has yet to play against in the NFL. If Bush does surpass him as the starter then that is a huge statement about Hyde. Bush when healthy has been decent but he is as injury prone (or more so) than Harvin and definitely not your bell cow back who punishes defenses. Bush is best suited as a #2 back who can slip in and out and make plays in the passing game, more of a scat back. If your coaches believe bush is a better option I wouldn't be so excited as a 9er fan.

Tough to say in regards to the talent of the line. Yes, they lost Iupati, but he didn't play all that well last year. Yes they lost Davis, but he didn't play much last year. They also lost both the starting and backup centers to injury. If your baseline tho is 2012 or 2013, then I'd agree...far less talent on the line.

From a talent perspective, I'm not sure its a huge downgrade when you consider the number of games Jonathan Martin started last year. The previous poster who said they run blocked quite well last year...which is kinda comical to me. Last 2 games of the year they ran the ball well (when Anthony Davis returned), but not so much through most of the year.

I do agree tho that learning the new scheme will be a problem, particularly the line getting the basis of the ZBS.

My whole point in this thread and what I was arguing were not that Hyde will have no trouble...just that the problems and assumptions made by a particular poster were ridiculous in their being the exact opposite of the actual problem. Anyone who watched Hyde on any semblance of a regular basis would find the assertion that Hyde struggled because he was too slow and that his slowness got him caught in the backfield were speaking 100% from their posterior.

His problem is that on many occasions he need to slow down, not speed up. I'm not saying that he's hyper fast, but more hyper active and a bit frenetic. I'm not sure that's any better than if speed actually was the issue and I dunno if his nature can be fixed in that regard.

 

[hawknation2015]

The previous poster who said they run blocked quite well last year...which is kinda comical to me. Last 2 games of the year they ran the ball well (when Anthony Davis returned), but not so much through most of the year.

I'm not the only one who thought the 49ers' offensive line run blocked well last year.

PFF rated them as the 5th best graded run blocking OL in 2014:

Run Blocking Ranking: 5th

As is often the case in San Francisco, they are a bullying group of linemen who can impose themselves in the run game, but are susceptible to giving up quick pressure. No difference this year with free agent-to-be Mike Iupati epitomizing this.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... ankings/3/

Once again, your feelings don't comport with the facts. I believe you will come to miss Iupati and Davis over time. :th2thumbs:

 

[Sports Hernia]

The previous poster who said they run blocked quite well last year...which is kinda comical to me. Last 2 games of the year they ran the ball well (when Anthony Davis returned), but not so much through most of the year.

I'm not the only one who thought the 49ers' offensive line run blocked well last year.

PFF rated them as the 5th best graded run blocking OL in 2014:

Run Blocking Ranking: 5th

As is often the case in San Francisco, they are a bullying group of linemen who can impose themselves in the run game, but are susceptible to giving up quick pressure. No difference this year with free agent-to-be Mike Iupati epitomizing this.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... ankings/3/

Once again, your feelings don't comport with the facts. I believe you will come to miss Iupati and Davis over time. :th2thumbs:

Not that he'd admit it if and when that happened. It will be that the 9'ers just have so much rotten luck and can't catch a break.