PFF: Highest Forced Missed Tackle %...

[Marvin49]

The previous poster who said they run blocked quite well last year...which is kinda comical to me. Last 2 games of the year they ran the ball well (when Anthony Davis returned), but not so much through most of the year.

I'm not the only one who thought the 49ers' offensive line run blocked well last year.

PFF rated them as the 5th best graded run blocking OL in 2014:

Run Blocking Ranking: 5th

As is often the case in San Francisco, they are a bullying group of linemen who can impose themselves in the run game, but are susceptible to giving up quick pressure. No difference this year with free agent-to-be Mike Iupati epitomizing this.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... ankings/3/

Once again, your feelings don't comport with the facts. I believe you will come to miss Iupati and Davis over time. :th2thumbs:

Cracks me up how you trust all the OPINIONS that support your hypothesis and ignore the numerous examples throughout this thread that directly contradict your point and then act as if every "fact" represented here supports a claim you are making that doesn't even make sense.

When contradicted you simply say something and drop the mic as if you've proved something but in reality you are completely incorrect in your hypothesis. Moreover you simply cherry pick out of context quotes and comment on those and in similar walk off fashion act as if you've made some point that as nothing to do with anything. Choosing to not respond to those same PFF people who contradict what you are saying and then later use them to prove a point you WANT to make is pretty funny.

Quoting articles from before the draft and then ignoring reviews of Hydes play from last year is even funnier.

The bottom line here is that you simply don't want to be wrong. That's it. This conversation hasn't been about Carlos Hyde for some time now and all you are doing is looking for reasons to claim "rightness". Kinda sad.

As for the point in regards to PFF, I'd respectfully disagree. The run game was a problem all year and Gore has ONE 100 yard game prior to the final two weeks of the season. They will surely miss Iupati and Davis, but my point was that last year Iupati wasn't the same guy returning from the broken ankle and Davis didn't even play most of the year.

 

[hawknation2015]

Choosing to not respond to those same PFF people who contradict what you are saying and then later use them to prove a point you WANT to make is pretty funny.

How have I contradicted anything they said? They acknowledged that Hyde's sample size is very small and that players like Ellington have seen their forced missed tackle rate decline as their carries increased.

Their data does, however, directly contradict what you are saying about Hyde's proclivity for getting hit in the backfield (like other sluggish backs). It also contradicts your mistaken belief that your run blocking was poor last season, with Gore getting hit in the backfield 10% less than Hyde en route to a 1,106 yard season.

Man, is your running game going to miss Iupati, Davis, and Gore. Moving to ZBS is also going to be a monumental, and probably very frustrating, adjustment for such a previously successful power team.

:49ersmall:

 

[Marvin49]

Choosing to not respond to those same PFF people who contradict what you are saying and then later use them to prove a point you WANT to make is pretty funny.

How have I contradicted anything they said? They acknowledged that Hyde's sample size is very small and that players like Ellington have seen their forced missed tackle rate decline as their carries increased.

Their data does, however, directly contradict what you are saying about Hyde's proclivity for getting hit in the backfield (like other sluggish backs). It also contradicts your mistaken belief that your run blocking was poor last season, with Gore getting hit in the backfield 10% less than Hyde en route to a 1,106 yard season.

Man, is your running game going to miss Iupati, Davis, and Gore. Moving to ZBS is also going to be a monumental, and probably very frustrating, adjustment for such a previously successful power team.

:49ersmall:

Jeff Deeney @PFF_Jeff
Carlos Hyde had the 7th-lowest % of runs of 2 yds or less (38.6%) despite being hit in backfield the most of any RB. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... hs-part-2/

Nowhere in any article by PFF and especially not in the piece you linked did it state anything in regards to WHY he was being hit in the backfield more often. Two Niner fans on this thread have explained to you WHY it happens and we said essentially the same thing. Moreover, another writer made the exact same conclusion and it was presented here and you completely ignored it.

"Finally, we need to see improvement in Hyde's vision, patience and understanding of the offense. Too often his tape on NFL Game Rewind showed a tendency to pick the wrong hole or not see a wide-open cutting lane. He must display improved patience and let holes develop in his second year. Balancing decisiveness and patience is tough for rookies; we expect Hyde to improve in those areas in Year 2."

You also showed a gif to represent your point and it was a gif of Gore. I then responded with SEVERAL showing how wrong you were and again...ignored.

The ONLY person saying that Hyde gets caught in the backfield because he's slow is you. That's it. No article you've presented says anything like that. They question his long speed, but nothing about the OPINION you are presenting as fact when you have CLEARLY hardly watched him at all.

When challenged, you pull out 40 times and splits and the fact that he didn't finish his workout in Indy as some evidence that he's slow what it was DOCUMENTED that he was hur in Indy and NOBODY has made any quickness or lack od speed claims since he was drafted.

Its all good to not know about a Niner player. I wouldn't sit here and tell you why Turbin or Michael won't be Lynch because I don't watch either of them nearly as often. Just admit it and move on.

 

[hawknation2015]

With Hyde (4.0 yards per carry) as your new feature back, get ready for a lot of this . . .

Enjoy! I know I will. :thirishdrinkers:

 

[Marvin49]

With Hyde (4.0 yards per carry) as your new feature back, get ready for a lot of this . . .

Enjoy! I know I will. :thirishdrinkers:

...and another pointless walkoff post as if you've proved something. Thanx fer making my point. Again from college footage. Give it up dude. Watch Carlos from LAST year.

Really not seeing a lack of quickness or lateral movement.



The really funny part?

Hyde was caught in the backfield in his final season at Ohio state like 3 times ALL YEAR.

 

[hawknation2015]

...and another pointless walkoff post as if you've proved something. Thanx fer making my point. Again from college footage. Give it up dude. Watch Carlos from LAST year.

Trent Richardson could run through the size of that hole that Iupati created. Thanks for proving my point.

Now post the play of Hyde hesitating in the backfield and getting stopped for a loss by the Rams on the one-yard line on 4th and goal.

 

[Marvin49]

...and another pointless walkoff post as if you've proved something. Thanx fer making my point. Again from college footage. Give it up dude. Watch Carlos from LAST year.

Trent Richardson could run through the size of that hole that Iupati created. Thanks for proving my point.

Now post the play of Hyde hesitating in the backfield and getting stopped for a loss by the Rams on the one-yard line on 4th and goal.

DUDE.

EXACTLY. He HESITATED. THATS the problem. The problems he needs to resolve are between his ears. PLEASE show me a vid where his lack of speed and "lumbering" nature got him tackled in the backfield.

 

[hawknation2015]

...and another pointless walkoff post as if you've proved something. Thanx fer making my point. Again from college footage. Give it up dude. Watch Carlos from LAST year.

Trent Richardson could run through the size of that hole that Iupati created. Thanks for proving my point.

Now post the play of Hyde hesitating in the backfield and getting stopped for a loss by the Rams on the one-yard line on 4th and goal.

DUDE.

EXACTLY. He HESITATED. THATS the problem. The problems he needs to resolve are between his ears. PLEASE show me a vid where his lack of speed and "lumbering" nature got him tackled in the backfield.

You said he needed MORE patience, not less. There you go, Marv, contradicting yourself again.

:th2thumbs:

 

[Marvin49]

...and another pointless walkoff post as if you've proved something. Thanx fer making my point. Again from college footage. Give it up dude. Watch Carlos from LAST year.

Trent Richardson could run through the size of that hole that Iupati created. Thanks for proving my point.

Now post the play of Hyde hesitating in the backfield and getting stopped for a loss by the Rams on the one-yard line on 4th and goal.

DUDE.

EXACTLY. He HESITATED. THATS the problem. The problems he needs to resolve are between his ears. PLEASE show me a vid where his lack of speed and "lumbering" nature got him tackled in the backfield.

You said he needed MORE patience, not less. There you go, Marv, contradicting yourself again.

:th2thumbs:

Sigh....and there you go again....out of context mic walkoff. Just another dodge.

 

[hawknation2015]

Just another dodge.

Answer: What is what Carlos Hyde attempts while trying to lumber out of the backfield?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... n-4th-down

:stirthepot:

 

[Marvin49]

Just another dodge.

Answer: What is what Carlos Hyde attempts while trying to lumber out of the backfield?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... n-4th-down

:stirthepot:

Just so I'm clear...a play in which he doesn't lose yards is your evidence that being slow it the reason he gets caught in the backfield?

 

[hawknation2015]

Just another dodge.

Answer: What is what Carlos Hyde attempts while trying to lumber out of the backfield?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... n-4th-down

:stirthepot:

Just so I'm clear...a play in which he doesn't lose yards is your evidence that being slow it the reason he gets caught in the backfield?

That's what life is going to look like from now on for the 49ers without Iupati and Gore. I believe Iupati exited that game under the concussion protocol, leading to Hyde lumbering in the backfield and then getting stonewalled on 4th and goal. It's not so easy when you don't have holes large enough to fit a truck through.

 

[Marvin49]

Just another dodge.

Answer: What is what Carlos Hyde attempts while trying to lumber out of the backfield?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... n-4th-down

:stirthepot:

Just so I'm clear...a play in which he doesn't lose yards is your evidence that being slow it the reason he gets caught in the backfield?

That's what life is going to look like from now on for the 49ers without Iupati and Gore. I believe Iupati exited that game under the concussion protocol, leading to Hyde lumbering in the backfield and then getting stonewalled on 4th and goal. It's not so easy when you don't have holes large enough to fit a truck through.

Why am I wasting my time?

 

[hawknation2015]

Just so I'm clear...a play in which he doesn't lose yards is your evidence that being slow it the reason he gets caught in the backfield?

That's what life is going to look like from now on for the 49ers without Iupati and Gore. I believe Iupati exited that game under the concussion protocol, leading to Hyde lumbering in the backfield and then getting stonewalled on 4th and goal. It's not so easy when you don't have holes large enough to fit a truck through.

Why am I wasting my time?

I don't know. Why are you a Whiner fan?

With the amount of time you spend on this board, it's about time you converted to a real team. The funniest thing about this thread is that you spent all this time defending Hyde, yet you don't even seem confident that he's going to be very good. In fact, you make a lot of excuses for why he won't be good. Kind of like how you talk about Jed York . . . you know he's not a very good owner, yet you can't help but defend him whenever his name comes up.

Like the Greek myth of Sisyphus, you are eternally damned to roll that boulder of mediocrity and disappointment up a hill, knowing that it's likely to roll right back down again. So is the life of Marvin.

:49ersmall:

 

[Scottemojo]

I bet Hyde really wishes he could have made Wagner miss a tackle.

 

[Popeyejones]

As the PFF article states, "It’s worth noting that Frank Gore was hit behind the line of scrimmage 10% less often than Hyde."

Wait a sec, so PFF stats are valid in the argument or aren't valid, because you've just dismissed all the PFF stats that don't serve your purposes.

Kudos at least on transitioning away from using Frank Gore .gifs to make arguments about Hyde's running style, though.

Also, if you didn't realize the argument you're making is that being hit in the backfield is primarily the fault of a RB and not an OLine because Carlos Hyde was hit in the backfield on 29% of his runs and Frank Gore was hit in the backfield on 26% of his runs.

Because of Hyde's small sampe size, your entire argument comes down to two Hyde carries total.

Bravo.

 

[Popeyejones]

Since the O-line for the niners will also be revamped and playing in a totally new scheme, I don't see why niner fans EXPECT Hyde to be great. Typical niner fan myopia...because he's a niner, he's gonna be GREAT. Whatever...

Which 9er fan here said he expects Hyde to be great?

Marvin said he's excited to see him get an increased work load but doesn't have any expectations about what he'll do with it.

I said I'm still on the fence about how well he'll perform, and am concerned about his ability to stay healthy.

We both said that we'll need to see more patience from him this season before we're excited about him.

I know that fighting invisible monsters is easier, but it's really hard to accuse others of being myopic while doing so, man. :th2thumbs:

 

[Marvin49]

Since the O-line for the niners will also be revamped and playing in a totally new scheme, I don't see why niner fans EXPECT Hyde to be great. Typical niner fan myopia...because he's a niner, he's gonna be GREAT. Whatever...

Which 9er fan here said he expects Hyde to be great?

Marvin said he's excited to see him get an increased work load but doesn't have any expectations about what he'll do with it.

I said I'm still on the fence about how well he'll perform, and am concerned about his ability to stay healthy.

We both said that we'll need to see more patience from him this season before we're excited about him.

I know that fighting invisible monsters is easier, but it's really hard to accuse others of being myopic while doing so, man. :th2thumbs:

Especially when the root of the entire argument is that he's a Niner drafted by Baalke therefore he'll suck.

 

[hawknation2015]

As the PFF article states, "It’s worth noting that Frank Gore was hit behind the line of scrimmage 10% less often than Hyde."

Wait a sec, so PFF stats are valid in the argument or aren't valid, because you've just dismissed all the PFF stats that don't serve your purposes.

Kudos at least on transitioning away from using Frank Gore .gifs to make arguments about Hyde's running style, though.

Also, if you didn't realize the argument you're making is that being hit in the backfield is primarily the fault of a RB and not an OLine because Carlos Hyde was hit in the backfield on 29% of his runs and Frank Gore was hit in the backfield on 26% of his runs.

Because of Hyde's small sampe size, your entire argument comes down to two Hyde carries total.

Bravo.

You're not very good at math, are you? LOL.

They don't mean 10% of 29%, they mean 10% less overall. Gore was hit in the backfield less than 19% of the time last season, while sluggish Hyde was hit in the backfield 29% of the time, despite running behind the same offensive line.

:34853_doh:

 

[Marvin49]

As the PFF article states, "It’s worth noting that Frank Gore was hit behind the line of scrimmage 10% less often than Hyde."

Wait a sec, so PFF stats are valid in the argument or aren't valid, because you've just dismissed all the PFF stats that don't serve your purposes.

Kudos at least on transitioning away from using Frank Gore .gifs to make arguments about Hyde's running style, though.

Also, if you didn't realize the argument you're making is that being hit in the backfield is primarily the fault of a RB and not an OLine because Carlos Hyde was hit in the backfield on 29% of his runs and Frank Gore was hit in the backfield on 26% of his runs.

Because of Hyde's small sampe size, your entire argument comes down to two Hyde carries total.

Bravo.

You're not very good at math, are you? LOL.

They don't mean 10% of 29%, they mean 10% less overall. Gore was hit in the backfield less than 19% of the time last season, while sluggish Hyde was hit in the backfield 29% of the time, despite running behind the same offensive line.

:34853_doh:

ROTFLMAO!!

"Sluggish Hyde".

Dude, you just don't stop. Hyde was SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much faster than Gore last year on every level (backfield, second level, etc).

Seriously dude. Stop with the BS and go watch Hyde vids from the 49ers. I'm sure you will come back here and tell me he looks slow because you can't stand to be wrong, but deep down, you'll know. That's good enough for me.