Petition to save Bevell an uneducated Cardinals fans POV

Sgt. Largent

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hawksfansinceday1":q3f14gzu said:
Sgt. Largent":q3f14gzu said:
hawksfansinceday1":q3f14gzu said:
Red zone ha been issue for the last several years and was yet again this past week. That's on Bevell and to a much lesser extent, Russ. The Hawks have gotten away with it the last several seasons because of that "stifling": defense. Got a feeling that won't be the case this year. I believe Bevell is going to have to step up his play design and play calling to get our team TDs instead of FGs for them to repeat as NFC West champs, let alone NFC champs or Owl champs.

I always figured it was on the players on the field to execute.

So what exactly are the amazing TD producing plays Bevell isn't calling that would result in more positive results in the red zone?
How about rolling Russ out with a pocket (not naked boot) once in a while while dragging the TE over the middle? Almost never see that and with his running ability it puts a huge amount of pressure on LBs. Is he Hawks' o-line not good enough to do so? Screens can work in the red zone too as we've seen with leaking Marshawn out. How about fades to Graham and Mathews and not a shorter guy like Kearse. How about corner posts to taller WRs like mathes and Graham and not just fades?

As for Russ getting better in the red zone.....don't throw it 2 feet over a 6'7" guy's head and work on your fades so you throw them like you did with Tate.

The misdirection roll out is one of our staples, with 2-3 layers of options for Russell............dump off, TE middle and deep WR routes all available.

And your 2nd comment is what I'm talking about, if we're criticizing our terrible red zone offense it's more about our small ass WR's and soft TE's not being able to get off the line, let alone get any separation..........thus why we got Graham.

I'd also throw Russell's ultra conservative approach in the red zone afraid to make mistakes. Last game he had Graham open at the end of the first half on a scramble and decided to run for like 2 yards instead and we kicked a FG.
 

kf3339

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Sgt. Largent":2r1hbm9c said:
hawksfansinceday1":2r1hbm9c said:
Sgt. Largent":2r1hbm9c said:
hawksfansinceday1":2r1hbm9c said:
Red zone ha been issue for the last several years and was yet again this past week. That's on Bevell and to a much lesser extent, Russ. The Hawks have gotten away with it the last several seasons because of that "stifling": defense. Got a feeling that won't be the case this year. I believe Bevell is going to have to step up his play design and play calling to get our team TDs instead of FGs for them to repeat as NFC West champs, let alone NFC champs or Owl champs.

I always figured it was on the players on the field to execute.

So what exactly are the amazing TD producing plays Bevell isn't calling that would result in more positive results in the red zone?
How about rolling Russ out with a pocket (not naked boot) once in a while while dragging the TE over the middle? Almost never see that and with his running ability it puts a huge amount of pressure on LBs. Is he Hawks' o-line not good enough to do so? Screens can work in the red zone too as we've seen with leaking Marshawn out. How about fades to Graham and Mathews and not a shorter guy like Kearse. How about corner posts to taller WRs like mathes and Graham and not just fades?

As for Russ getting better in the red zone.....don't throw it 2 feet over a 6'7" guy's head and work on your fades so you throw them like you did with Tate.

The misdirection roll out is one of our staples, with 2-3 layers of options for Russell............dump off, TE middle and deep WR routes all available.

And your 2nd comment is what I'm talking about, if we're criticizing our terrible red zone offense it's more about our small ass WR's and soft TE's not being able to get off the line, let alone get any separation..........thus why we got Graham.

I'd also throw Russell's ultra conservative approach in the red zone afraid to make mistakes. Last game he had Graham open at the end of the first half on a scramble and decided to run for like 2 yards instead and we kicked a FG.

I think PC pounded the ball control and don't turn over the ball aspect into Wilson so much that he has became at times too timid. PC on offense acts more like Monty, when he should in fact be acting like Patton.
 

Siouxhawk

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Excellent post ringless. My feelings exactly. Bevell is the right fit to lead our offense. Let's not forget he is a major part of Russ's development and those 2 will continue to grow together
 

hawksfansinceday1

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Sgt. Largent":3lu4eqtg said:
hawksfansinceday1":3lu4eqtg said:
Sgt. Largent":3lu4eqtg said:
hawksfansinceday1":3lu4eqtg said:
Red zone ha been issue for the last several years and was yet again this past week. That's on Bevell and to a much lesser extent, Russ. The Hawks have gotten away with it the last several seasons because of that "stifling": defense. Got a feeling that won't be the case this year. I believe Bevell is going to have to step up his play design and play calling to get our team TDs instead of FGs for them to repeat as NFC West champs, let alone NFC champs or Owl champs.

I always figured it was on the players on the field to execute.

So what exactly are the amazing TD producing plays Bevell isn't calling that would result in more positive results in the red zone?
How about rolling Russ out with a pocket (not naked boot) once in a while while dragging the TE over the middle? Almost never see that and with his running ability it puts a huge amount of pressure on LBs. Is he Hawks' o-line not good enough to do so? Screens can work in the red zone too as we've seen with leaking Marshawn out. How about fades to Graham and Mathews and not a shorter guy like Kearse. How about corner posts to taller WRs like mathes and Graham and not just fades?

As for Russ getting better in the red zone.....don't throw it 2 feet over a 6'7" guy's head and work on your fades so you throw them like you did with Tate.

The misdirection roll out is one of our staples, with 2-3 layers of options for Russell............dump off, TE middle and deep WR routes all available.

And your 2nd comment is what I'm talking about, if we're criticizing our terrible red zone offense it's more about our small ass WR's and soft TE's not being able to get off the line, let alone get any separation..........thus why we got Graham.

I'd also throw Russell's ultra conservative approach in the red zone afraid to make mistakes. Last game he had Graham open at the end of the first half on a scramble and decided to run for like 2 yards instead and we kicked a FG.
Yes, it's not all on Bev. But I don't believe we use the rollout you described enough or a "standard" rollout nearly often enough. I also like corner post to Mathews or Graham split out wide if their one on one with a 2nd option available.
 

Hawks46

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Hasselbeck":1in9x8wv said:
Of course the Cards fan wants to keep Bevell in Seattle.

valentinepoint.gif

This ! lol it was the first thing I thought of.

Seriously though, well thought out post. Poor execution isn't always the OC's fault. I'm still not ok with that last run though.
 

Sgt. Largent

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hawksfansinceday1":28a3y2u7 said:
Yes, it's not all on Bev. But I don't believe we use the rollout you described enough or a "standard" rollout nearly often enough. I also like corner post to Mathews or Graham split out wide if their one on one with a 2nd option available.

Not sure what to say then, I see the play at least 10 times a game...................straight roll out, roll out with one back set misdirection, misdirection with play action to opposite side and read option roll out.
 

mikeak

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How do you know a coach should be fired?

When the opponents make a long post about why he should stay.

No cool video to go with the statement but seriously think about it
 

kearly

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I remember when I read this headline, it made me so happy.

Sadly, it was not meant to be. It's only natural that a Cards fan is happy that Bevell is still in Seattle.
 

FortWorthSeahawk

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You let me know when we stop running five wide sets against dominate front sevens and maybe I'll believe that Bevell is 'better than advertised'.
 

Siouxhawk

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Just because he's a Cards fan doesn't mean he can't make an articulate football observation. He's stated before that he enjoys this site because of the insightful comments he isn't able to find elsewhere. Speculating he was poking fun at our coaching staff because of the team he roots for would very much align with those comments he'd expect elsewhere
 

mikeak

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Siouxhawk":2yu1z8dd said:
Just because he's a Cards fan doesn't mean he can't make an articulate football observation. He's stated before that he enjoys this site because of the insightful comments he isn't able to find elsewhere. Speculating he was poking fun at our coaching staff because of the team he roots for would very much align with those comments he'd expect elsewhere

With all due respect I think Ringless expected some of the comments we made. They were written nicely and with a jestful tone - none of them were harsh

I still maintain that you should consider the source of the information. It may be 100% correct but you shall still consider the source
 
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R

ringless

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When I made this post, I meant it with honesty.

Let me ask a question. A lot of the complaints are about the simplicity of the route trees. If you go to a far extreme like Arians route trees that take a significant amount of time to develop do you think Seattle could be successful with it.

Could Wilson be a gun slinger?
Could the O-line support more complex route trees/slower developing plays and allow Wilson to hold the ball while they developed?
Are the receivers proven as threats that will make defenses need to keep an extra man out of the box?

Lets say you guys went that route. I honestly believe it would take away from the Defense. There would likely be shorter drives, and less TOP. There would likely be less of a pounding the opposition takes.

Seattle is built to pound and demolish teams on both sides of the ball. They make teams play to their game plan for the most part.

I also pointed out that the last two years Seattle has been a top 10 team in PPG. Now would Bevell be a good fit for AZ? No. However, he is a perfect fit for the Seahawks and their style. Which is always being in control.

By changing the offense you are going to then have more TO's. I think it would just go against everything the team has going for them right now. Graham, Lockett, etc should make it so you guys can get bigger plays within a similar scheme. Wilson by the end of the year I am sure will be rolling out on a bootleg and completing a intermediate pass all day long to Graham in time.
 

HawkFan72

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kearly":2hzo5dam said:
I remember when I read this headline, it made me so happy.

Sadly, it was not meant to be. It's only natural that a Cards fan is happy that Bevell is still in Seattle.

Don't forget that the Seahawks gave him a raise to keep him from going to that job.
 

Sgt. Largent

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HawkFan72":1k9n01u7 said:
kearly":1k9n01u7 said:
I remember when I read this headline, it made me so happy.

Sadly, it was not meant to be. It's only natural that a Cards fan is happy that Bevell is still in Seattle.

Don't forget that the Seahawks gave him a raise to keep him from going to that job.

Yeah G-damn Pete and John, what the hell do they know about football?
 

hawkfan68

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Even a rock can figure out why opposing fans want the Seahawks to keep Bevell. He gives the best chance for their respective team to beat the Seahawks.
 

Spin Doctor

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ringless":36ztpdu6 said:
Has Bevell made a mistake? Sure he has. We all have, including myself back in 94. Bevell has also been part of a team that has gone to back to back Super Bowls.

The Seahawks play a ball control style of football, and Bevell's style goes hand in hand with the Defense. I can't tell you how many games I've watched where it's a close game the first two or three quarters before the Dam breaks open for your Seahawks resulting in a 4th quarter of complete domination.

The Defense is stifling. The offense does a ton of damage in it's wear and tear style. Battering teams with Lynch, Wilsons ability to scramble. It allows your team to control the clock and the temp of the game and it compliments the style of defense well.

Lets look at some stats and then go into detail.
In 2014 Seattle had the 9th most yards on offense, and the 10th most PPG. To go with the #1 Defense.
In 2013 Seattle again had a top 10 scoring offense coming in at #9. To go along with the #1 Defense.

Lets look at a couple of other factors. A lot of the complaints are the uncomplicated route trees and that it's a high school offense. Why is that, and in comparison to whom?

Its no secret that Seattle's offensive line is offensive. There is not a lot invested at the position to say the least. I also believe thats compounded by Wilson who leaves the pocket. It's much easier to form a pocket around someone who drops back into one and can see over the line as opposed to one who leaves the pocket. Its not like the OL have eyes behind their heads. Its really a two part problem. Low investments and an unconventional QB style.

The poor offensive line, and Wilsons play style don't allow complicated route trees to develop. Look no further than the Cardinals offense. Bruce Arians route trees are extremely complicated. They are slow developing plays that rely on a lot of factors which is why some of the QB's have gotten killed at the same time. It's a vertical aggressive offense. One that Seattle can not implement because of lack of OL depth, and if you can be honest with yourselves the WR corp isn't the scariest in the league by any means. (I know you are thinking Lockett for the vertical threat but that is yet to be seen in real games)

Bevell's style allows you to control the game and the ball. Long sustained drives, with punishing results to the opposition. Sure it appears frustrating for 2-3 quarters. But 95% of the time when that 4th quarter rolls around the other team is gassed on defense, and having to go one dimensional on offense.

There will always be frustrating play calls. But you guys act as if he is the worst thing ever. You wont find a fanbase that doesnt share your frustrations even with their great coordinators from time to time. But you can't argue with the results.

But thats just the thought from a basement teams fan
Sometimes offensive coordinators can be hard to judge, especially as a fan on the outside looking in. Often times they are seen as the scapegoats when things aren't going right on the offensive side of the ball. Rationality and objective observation can go out the window in this circumstance. That being said, I do not think this is the case with Darrelle Bevell. While it is true that he is an easy target, many of the gripes we as fans have solid grounding.

I, myself have two criteria that I judge offensive coordinators on. The first, and most important is dynamic decision-making. Can the coordinator adjust to what the defense is trying to throw at him? The second side to dynamic decision-making is situational awareness. It's 4th and one, game on the line, what formations do you go with, what personnel do you decide to trot out onto the field, and last but not least, the physical playcall itself. This is perhaps Bevell's biggest fault. I liken him to a chess player. He spends the entirety of the first half trying to set up the opposing team for big plays. Mid game he strikes, but if his strategy fails, it's back to trying to set up another game breaking play. This results in an offense that stymies, and stutters its way through a game, but occasionally has big burst of plays. His situational awareness is not much better. He prefers trickery, over matchups. That is good on occasion, however Bevell rarely goes with the conventional call. This leads to big matchup problems that are unfavorable for the offense. In this criteria I have set, he fails, and fails big time.

The second set of criteria I have when judging OC's is: how well does the coordinator utilize talent? This in my opinion is Bevell's biggest shortcoming as an offensive coordinator. I see a common thread with offensive players that leave the Seahawks, or are coming from another team, and it is a disturbing one. The skill position players that come here are unusually unproductive, and it isn't just because of Seattle's lack of attempts in the passing game, the same goes for players leaving the offense, they are more productive. I look at Tate for example, Detroit uses pick plays, and quick slants to get Tate into space, he uses his YAC abilities and consistently gets 10-20 yards. It's an easy completion for the QB, and essentially free yards for the offense. In Seattle he was used as a decoy or downfield threat, while largely not utilizing the best parts of his game. Harvin is another example of a wide receiver that was more productive after leaving. The Bills, and Jets moved him around, and used him as a slasher type of player. He would line up in the backfield, get a quick slant pick play, and be used in trips formations that were designed to get him into space, and get him blockers. I saw very little of this going on in Seattle. Lastly, we have Miller. In Oakland Miller was widely regarded as one of the best pass catching TE's in the league. He was a savvy safety blanket for his QBs. Here in Seattle he was used as a glorified right tackle his whole tenure. He was grossly misused as a Seahawk.

I could keep ranting on, but I will end my post right now before I have a stroke that is brought on by rage.
 

morgulon1

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Diezel Dawg":204rcjq7 said:
Some play action roll outs thrown in more more Often would play to our reception very strengths


And add some short crossing style routes. To go with the 15 bubble screens per game .
 
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