Our Defense is worse than you think

[justafan]

Other teams have offenses that have turned the ball over as well. In fact most likely they have done so at a higher rate than our offense. You can't simply take away points from our D and act like the same couldn't be done for all the rest of the defenses out there.
Our defense HAS SUCKED ALL YEAR TO POOR OFFENSES NO LESS!!!! They have been a bottom of the barrel defense facing weak offenses with mediocre at best QB's.

I am really not to worried about the rankings If they hold the other team to fewer than we score I am happy.The D played well enough to win both of those games against the Saints and the Ravens. 14 points given up on special teams and turnovers,Saints punter was money most of the game. Ravens we held them to 16 even though Jackson ripped us.He was the best player in that game that day. But the D played well enough to win. Doesnt matter because we lost.

 

[Natethegreat]

Other teams have offenses that have turned the ball over as well. In fact most likely they have done so at a higher rate than our offense. You can't simply take away points from our D and act like the same couldn't be done for all the rest of the defenses out there.
Our defense HAS SUCKED ALL YEAR TO POOR OFFENSES NO LESS!!!! They have been a bottom of the barrel defense facing weak offenses with mediocre at best QB's.

I am really not to worried about the rankings If they hold the other team to fewer than we score I am happy.The D played well enough to win both of those games against the Saints and the Ravens. 14 points given up on special teams and turnovers,Saints punter was money most of the game. Ravens we held them to 16 even though Jackson ripped us.He was the best player in that game that day. But the D played well enough to win. Doesnt matter because we lost.

The point is that the ONLY reason we are 5 and 2 is because we have an all world QB able to overcome a D that has up to this point been poor.
In fact the moment our QB isn't absolutely perfect this team has little shot at winning. Your arguement isn't sound and your jumping all over the place now.
They are ranked low because they have been piss poor all year against mediocre at best QB's and Russ has been able to overcome that AND a line that still can't block at a league average level.

 

[justafan]

Other teams have offenses that have turned the ball over as well. In fact most likely they have done so at a higher rate than our offense. You can't simply take away points from our D and act like the same couldn't be done for all the rest of the defenses out there.
Our defense HAS SUCKED ALL YEAR TO POOR OFFENSES NO LESS!!!! They have been a bottom of the barrel defense facing weak offenses with mediocre at best QB's.

I am really not to worried about the rankings If they hold the other team to fewer than we score I am happy.The D played well enough to win both of those games against the Saints and the Ravens. 14 points given up on special teams and turnovers,Saints punter was money most of the game. Ravens we held them to 16 even though Jackson ripped us.He was the best player in that game that day. But the D played well enough to win. Doesnt matter because we lost.

The point is that the ONLY reason we are 5 and 2 is because we have an all world QB able to overcome a D that has up to this point been poor.
In fact the moment our QB isn't absolutely perfect this team has little shot at winning. Your arguement isn't sound and your jumping all over the place now.
They are ranked low because they have been piss poor all year against mediocre at best QB's and Russ has been able to overcome that AND a line that still can't block at a league average level.

I think the glass is half full you think its half empty. We arent going to change our opinions.

 

[LTH]

Other teams have offenses that have turned the ball over as well. In fact most likely they have done so at a higher rate than our offense. You can't simply take away points from our D and act like the same couldn't be done for all the rest of the defenses out there.
Our defense HAS SUCKED ALL YEAR TO POOR OFFENSES NO LESS!!!! They have been a bottom of the barrel defense facing weak offenses with mediocre at best QB's.

I am really not to worried about the rankings If they hold the other team to fewer than we score I am happy.The D played well enough to win both of those games against the Saints and the Ravens. 14 points given up on special teams and turnovers,Saints punter was money most of the game. Ravens we held them to 16 even though Jackson ripped us.He was the best player in that game that day. But the D played well enough to win. Doesnt matter because we lost.

The point is that the ONLY reason we are 5 and 2 is because we have an all world QB able to overcome a D that has up to this point been poor.
In fact the moment our QB isn't absolutely perfect this team has little shot at winning. Your arguement isn't sound and your jumping all over the place now.
They are ranked low because they have been piss poor all year against mediocre at best QB's and Russ has been able to overcome that AND a line that still can't block at a league average level.

And you call that sound logic?

Wilson is not the only reason this team is 5-2...the offense is a unit they all have a job to do to be successful and the reason the Hawks are 5-2 is because all 3 phases played well enough to win or they would have lost... Wilson can't block a DE... Wilson can't catch his own pass Wilson... can't hand off to himself and run for a first down ETC...

Yeah Wilson is a big reason for the Hawks being 5-2 because the guy can play... that's why the Hawks gave him big money that's why the Hawks had to get rid of a bunch of players to make sure they had enough money to pay Wilson.. But he isnt the only reason and to think that he is the only reason the Hawks are 5-2 is unsound logic .. you sir have been listening to much sports radio...

 

[Scorpion05]

The defensive points stats are skewed.. Russ' pick 6, Metcalf's fumble returned for a td, and Carson's fumble for a td all count towards the defensive scoring for some reason.

actually no, this is only point given up by the defense

I added up the total. Its total 176 points allowed offense, defense, & special teams.

If you subtract Wilson pick 6, Metcalf fumble, Carson fumble, & punt return TD. That's 28pts right there.

That would be 148. We would be tied 15th best right down the middle. Also 6 teams only played 6 games compared to the 7 game Seahawks has played. So more like top 12.

I think w/ the new trade, our pass rusher gelling soon, we can get back to being a top 10 defense.

Yea sorry, this is the definition of what they call "SPIN" in politics. This logic presumes that the Seahawks are the only team turning the ball over. Every other team is judged the same way. So yes, 176 point is HORRIFIC. Without Russ, we'd be crap.

If you, and others doubt that, let's take a look at some numbers in comparison.

The Seahawks have had only 8 turnovers on the season. Then there's Russ' pick 6, and Metcalf and Carson's fumble return TD.

The Patriots have also had 8 turnovers on the season. By my brief count, two of those were Tom Brady fumbles returned for a TD. The Patriots have only allowed 48 points. FORTY EIGHT, LOL

The Chargers have had 12 turnovers on the season. At the very least, I know that Rivers lost a fumble for a TD against the Steelers. The Chargers have only allowed 141 points

The Browns have had 14 turnovers on the season. Fourteen. Baker has also had a pick six. The Browns have only allowed 156 points.

The Buccaneers have had 13 turnovers on the season. Jameis alone has had three pick sixes. Guess how many points the Buccaneers have allowed? 185 points. So seven points more than the Seahawks. That's sad.

Here are some others:

The 49ers have allowed 64 points, despite Jimmy G's pick six, and 11 turnovers.

The Jets have allowed only 156 points. I don't think I need to bring up Darnold's turnovers. And the ineptness of that offense.

The Rams have allowed 164 points, with 12 turnovers and at least 1 fumble return for a TD by Goff that I can recall.

I can go on. But let's stop with the excuses. There is Zero excuse for 176 points.

 

[John63]

Other teams have offenses that have turned the ball over as well. In fact most likely they have done so at a higher rate than our offense. You can't simply take away points from our D and act like the same couldn't be done for all the rest of the defenses out there.
Our defense HAS SUCKED ALL YEAR TO POOR OFFENSES NO LESS!!!! They have been a bottom of the barrel defense facing weak offenses with mediocre at best QB's.

I am really not to worried about the rankings If they hold the other team to fewer than we score I am happy.The D played well enough to win both of those games against the Saints and the Ravens. 14 points given up on special teams and turnovers,Saints punter was money most of the game. Ravens we held them to 16 even though Jackson ripped us.He was the best player in that game that day. But the D played well enough to win. Doesnt matter because we lost.

The point is that the ONLY reason we are 5 and 2 is because we have an all world QB able to overcome a D that has up to this point been poor.
In fact the moment our QB isn't absolutely perfect this team has little shot at winning. Your arguement isn't sound and your jumping all over the place now.
They are ranked low because they have been piss poor all year against mediocre at best QB's and Russ has been able to overcome that AND a line that still can't block at a league average level.

And you call that sound logic?

Wilson is not the only reason this team is 5-2...the offense is a unit they all have a job to do to be successful and the reason the Hawks are 5-2 is because all 3 phases played well enough to win or they would have lost... Wilson can't block a DE... Wilson can't catch his own pass Wilson... can't hand off to himself and run for a first down ETC...

Yeah Wilson is a big reason for the Hawks being 5-2 because the guy can play... that's why the Hawks gave him big money that's why the Hawks had to get rid of a bunch of players to make sure they had enough money to pay Wilson.. But he isnt the only reason and to think that he is the only reason the Hawks are 5-2 is unsound logic .. you sir have been listening to much sports radio...

 

[John63]

Other teams have offenses that have turned the ball over as well. In fact most likely they have done so at a higher rate than our offense. You can't simply take away points from our D and act like the same couldn't be done for all the rest of the defenses out there.
Our defense HAS SUCKED ALL YEAR TO POOR OFFENSES NO LESS!!!! They have been a bottom of the barrel defense facing weak offenses with mediocre at best QB's.

I am really not to worried about the rankings If they hold the other team to fewer than we score I am happy.The D played well enough to win both of those games against the Saints and the Ravens. 14 points given up on special teams and turnovers,Saints punter was money most of the game. Ravens we held them to 16 even though Jackson ripped us.He was the best player in that game that day. But the D played well enough to win. Doesnt matter because we lost.

The point is that the ONLY reason we are 5 and 2 is because we have an all world QB able to overcome a D that has up to this point been poor.
In fact the moment our QB isn't absolutely perfect this team has little shot at winning. Your arguement isn't sound and your jumping all over the place now.
They are ranked low because they have been piss poor all year against mediocre at best QB's and Russ has been able to overcome that AND a line that still can't block at a league average level.

And you call that sound logic?

Wilson is not the only reason this team is 5-2...the offense is a unit they all have a job to do to be successful and the reason the Hawks are 5-2 is because all 3 phases played well enough to win or they would have lost... Wilson can't block a DE... Wilson can't catch his own pass Wilson... can't hand off to himself and run for a first down ETC...

Yeah Wilson is a big reason for the Hawks being 5-2 because the guy can play... that's why the Hawks gave him big money that's why the Hawks had to get rid of a bunch of players to make sure they had enough money to pay Wilson.. But he isnt the only reason and to think that he is the only reason the Hawks are 5-2 is unsound logic .. you sir have been listening to much sports radio...

While I do agree with you he is not the only reason he is the main reason. It is not about sports radio, its watching the games.

 

[rcaido]

The defensive points stats are skewed.. Russ' pick 6, Metcalf's fumble returned for a td, and Carson's fumble for a td all count towards the defensive scoring for some reason.

actually no, this is only point given up by the defense

I added up the total. Its total 176 points allowed offense, defense, & special teams.

If you subtract Wilson pick 6, Metcalf fumble, Carson fumble, & punt return TD. That's 28pts right there.

That would be 148. We would be tied 15th best right down the middle. Also 6 teams only played 6 games compared to the 7 game Seahawks has played. So more like top 12.

I think w/ the new trade, our pass rusher gelling soon, we can get back to being a top 10 defense.

Yea sorry, this is the definition of what they call "SPIN" in politics. This logic presumes that the Seahawks are the only team turning the ball over. Every other team is judged the same way. So yes, 176 point is HORRIFIC. Without Russ, we'd be crap.

If you, and others doubt that, let's take a look at some numbers in comparison.

The Seahawks have had only 8 turnovers on the season. Then there's Russ' pick 6, and Metcalf and Carson's fumble return TD.

The Patriots have also had 8 turnovers on the season. By my brief count, two of those were Tom Brady fumbles returned for a TD. The Patriots have only allowed 48 points. FORTY EIGHT, LOL

The Chargers have had 12 turnovers on the season. At the very least, I know that Rivers lost a fumble for a TD against the Steelers. The Chargers have only allowed 141 points

The Browns have had 14 turnovers on the season. Fourteen. Baker has also had a pick six. The Browns have only allowed 156 points.

The Buccaneers have had 13 turnovers on the season. Jameis alone has had three pick sixes. Guess how many points the Buccaneers have allowed? 185 points. So seven points more than the Seahawks. That's sad.

Here are some others:

The 49ers have allowed 64 points, despite Jimmy G's pick six, and 11 turnovers.

The Jets have allowed only 156 points. I don't think I need to bring up Darnold's turnovers. And the ineptness of that offense.

The Rams have allowed 164 points, with 12 turnovers and at least 1 fumble return for a TD by Goff that I can recall.

I can go on. But let's stop with the excuses. There is Zero excuse for 176 points.

Sorry this is the definition of being lazy. You just cant add points to the defense because the person decided to be lazy and omit points that was not given.

I decided to do it myself.

There has been
13 Fumble Tds
17 Int Tds
4 Kick Return Tds
2 Punt Return Tds

I broke it down on the teams that were affected by it.

Bucsx2 = 185 -14 = 171
Browns = 154 -7= 147
Dolphins x3 = 211 - 21 = 190
Saintsx2 = 147- 14 = 133
Jets x3 = 156 - 21 = 145
Redskins x2 = 176-14= 162
Patriotsx3 = 48 - 21= 27 geezus
Bengals = 186 - 7 = 179
49ers = 64 - 7 = 57
Colts= 138 -7 = 131
Packers = 139 - 7= 132
Bills = 91 -7 = 84
Cardinals =192 -7 = 185
Seahawks x4 = 176 - 28= 148
Rams = 164 -7 = 157
Giants =187 - 7= 180
Lions = 160 - 7= 153
Broncos x2 = 136 - 14 = 122
Falcons =223 - 7 = 216
Chargers = 141 - 7 = 134
Jaguars = 148 - 7 = 141
Eagles = 186 - 7 = 179
Ravens = 156 -7 = 149

So instead of the Seahawks ranked 24th, they are actually ranked 18. I put * on teams that only played 6 games so far. So in reality they are ranked 16 as we can assume Jets & Browns will give up at least 3pts next game. Then there are the Colts, Stealers, & Panthers are pretty close too...If they give up at 16pts next week, Seahawks could be as high as 13. Big difference, stop being lazy.


#1 Patriots 27pts
*49ers = 57pts
*Bills 84pts
*Bears 105pts
Titans - 112 pts
Broncos - 122 pts
Vikings - 123 pts
Cowboys - 124 pts
*Colts - 131 pts
*Stealers -131 pts
Packers -132 pts
Saints - 133 pts
*Panthers - 133 pts
Chargers - 134 pts
Jaguars -141 pts
*Jets -145 pts
*Browns -147 pts
# 18 Seahawks - 148 pts

 

[Natethegreat]

So the defense is ranked 18th in scoring after playing a schedule filled with weak offenses run by mediocre QB's. On a team that plays slow it down grind it out games. Awesome!
Imagine what we would be ranked if they weren't at the top of the league in RZ defense. Now I can't just take that away I get that but anyone watching the games can see this defense isn't stopping anyone.
In fact we are fortunate no one on the Bengals, Browns, or Ravens seems capable of catching a ball when wide open.

 

[xray]

The defense belongs to Pete Carroll . I constantly hear that he is a defensive guru . I say he used to be a D guru . If he was a player I would say that he has lost a couple steps . The OLDER he gets the better he WAS .

 

[jammerhawk]

The key missing ingredient is sold tackling. I wonder if there is a stat for yardage gained against the D after first contact, or for missed tackles or broken tackles given up? The D is simply not tackling well.

You say the D belongs to Pete so WTF is the DC doing? Don’t really believe the problem is scheme b/c there have been too many huge mistakes made tackling or dumb coverage mistakes but a particular FS.

 

[Natethegreat]

I would say that is probably the biggest difference I have seen on this team.
The tackling has been poor all year. Not just on Lamar Jackson. Who by the way had his best rushing game against us.
On top of the poor tackling we have little pressure on the Q B and we have been giving up long passes as a result.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I would say that is probably the biggest difference I have seen on this team.
The tackling has been poor all year. Not just on Lamar Jackson. Who by the way had his best rushing game against us.
On top of the poor tackling we have little pressure on the Q B and we have been giving up long passes as a result.

I wouldn't say poor all year, but definitely enough to be concerned about it.

The startling part of the poor tackling issue is it's our LB's for the most part, especially Kendricks. Which tells you that either our defense is pressing and getting out of their lanes and positions because they're trying to do too much...........or IMO being ASKED to do too much, and it's resulting in being put in bad situations.

I don't know what Pete's plan is going forward, but holy crap get the hell out of this terrible base defense.

 

[hawker84]

Nope, this defense is every bit as bad as i thought it would be. I knew we'd have to win shoot outs this year.

 

[rcaido]

So the defense is ranked 18th in scoring after playing a schedule filled with weak offenses run by mediocre QB's. On a team that plays slow it down grind it out games. Awesome!
Imagine what we would be ranked if they weren't at the top of the league in RZ defense. Now I can't just take that away I get that but anyone watching the games can see this defense isn't stopping anyone.
In fact we are fortunate no one on the Bengals, Browns, or Ravens seems capable of catching a ball when wide open.

Pay attention, other teams only played 6 games. LIke i said, they would actually be ranked as high as 13 not 24th like they are mentioned. Can you imagine we had competent safety instead of Tedric Thompson? We just addressed that. As for playing teams w/ weak offense, we already played two top 5 offenses #2Ravens #5Rams and other two teams Saints#13/Cardinals#14. The other 3 are trash but just like every other team they play against trash offense too.

To be fair, Seahawks defense has been mediocre since last season. They haven't really been good since 2016. I think they got the talent to be a top 10 team 2nd half of the season.

 

[jammerhawk]

I agree the talent is here for the 2nd half of the season save for TT who has shown he is not of starting quality as a FS.

Things would be significantly better for the D if they could get more of a pass rush and hopefully we will see that begin to happen as the DLine works together more. The addition of Diggs could be a significant upgrade to the back end especially if MacDougald gets healthy and Blair continues to develop. To me both Hill and Thompson have demonstrated they are not starting quality players this their 3rd season and neither have shown they the it factor and both can be improved upon.

I have commented above that the big plays given up by TT have shown he is unsuited for his job, the tackling overall has been poor and the pass rush has been lacking. I once again do not believe the scheme is flawed, broken, or out of date, it is the execution of the scheme that has been the problem. The later is not upon Pete but upon Norton as it is his job to see the players are coached well to play their positions, and that very much includes the execution of their scheme and tackling.

Last season several here were on CB- Griffin for not being Sherman, however his coverage has improved this year. He's not Sherman yet but isn't bad, conversely Flowers was being touted as the next shutdown CB and has regressed a bit as a sophomore, he played well against Baltimore though so perhaps he's gaining confidence again. To me I think we are good at outside CB, NCB remains a position where improvement could be helpful.

 

[Scorpion05]

actually no, this is only point given up by the defense

I added up the total. Its total 176 points allowed offense, defense, & special teams.

If you subtract Wilson pick 6, Metcalf fumble, Carson fumble, & punt return TD. That's 28pts right there.

That would be 148. We would be tied 15th best right down the middle. Also 6 teams only played 6 games compared to the 7 game Seahawks has played. So more like top 12.

I think w/ the new trade, our pass rusher gelling soon, we can get back to being a top 10 defense.

Yea sorry, this is the definition of what they call "SPIN" in politics. This logic presumes that the Seahawks are the only team turning the ball over. Every other team is judged the same way. So yes, 176 point is HORRIFIC. Without Russ, we'd be crap.

If you, and others doubt that, let's take a look at some numbers in comparison.

The Seahawks have had only 8 turnovers on the season. Then there's Russ' pick 6, and Metcalf and Carson's fumble return TD.

The Patriots have also had 8 turnovers on the season. By my brief count, two of those were Tom Brady fumbles returned for a TD. The Patriots have only allowed 48 points. FORTY EIGHT, LOL

The Chargers have had 12 turnovers on the season. At the very least, I know that Rivers lost a fumble for a TD against the Steelers. The Chargers have only allowed 141 points

The Browns have had 14 turnovers on the season. Fourteen. Baker has also had a pick six. The Browns have only allowed 156 points.

The Buccaneers have had 13 turnovers on the season. Jameis alone has had three pick sixes. Guess how many points the Buccaneers have allowed? 185 points. So seven points more than the Seahawks. That's sad.

Here are some others:

The 49ers have allowed 64 points, despite Jimmy G's pick six, and 11 turnovers.

The Jets have allowed only 156 points. I don't think I need to bring up Darnold's turnovers. And the ineptness of that offense.

The Rams have allowed 164 points, with 12 turnovers and at least 1 fumble return for a TD by Goff that I can recall.

I can go on. But let's stop with the excuses. There is Zero excuse for 176 points.

Sorry this is the definition of being lazy. You just cant add points to the defense because the person decided to be lazy and omit points that was not given.

I decided to do it myself.

There has been
13 Fumble Tds
17 Int Tds
4 Kick Return Tds
2 Punt Return Tds

I broke it down on the teams that were affected by it.

Bucsx2 = 185 -14 = 171
Browns = 154 -7= 147
Dolphins x3 = 211 - 21 = 190
Saintsx2 = 147- 14 = 133
Jets x3 = 156 - 21 = 145
Redskins x2 = 176-14= 162
Patriotsx3 = 48 - 21= 27 geezus
Bengals = 186 - 7 = 179
49ers = 64 - 7 = 57
Colts= 138 -7 = 131
Packers = 139 - 7= 132
Bills = 91 -7 = 84
Cardinals =192 -7 = 185
Seahawks x4 = 176 - 28= 148
Rams = 164 -7 = 157
Giants =187 - 7= 180
Lions = 160 - 7= 153
Broncos x2 = 136 - 14 = 122
Falcons =223 - 7 = 216
Chargers = 141 - 7 = 134
Jaguars = 148 - 7 = 141
Eagles = 186 - 7 = 179
Ravens = 156 -7 = 149

So instead of the Seahawks ranked 24th, they are actually ranked 18. I put * on teams that only played 6 games so far. So in reality they are ranked 16 as we can assume Jets & Browns will give up at least 3pts next game. Then there are the Colts, Stealers, & Panthers are pretty close too...If they give up at 16pts next week, Seahawks could be as high as 13. Big difference, stop being lazy.


#1 Patriots 27pts
*49ers = 57pts
*Bills 84pts
*Bears 105pts
Titans - 112 pts
Broncos - 122 pts
Vikings - 123 pts
Cowboys - 124 pts
*Colts - 131 pts
*Stealers -131 pts
Packers -132 pts
Saints - 133 pts
*Panthers - 133 pts
Chargers - 134 pts
Jaguars -141 pts
*Jets -145 pts
*Browns -147 pts
# 18 Seahawks - 148 pts

Your argument fell apart the moment you tried to pretend 148 points is good, or even average considering the circumstances. Even worse, you call my argument lazy when I actually included overall turnovers, as well as examples of which teams were affected as part of my argument. Great spin there.

You compared our defense to the Jets and Browns. Another weak argument, since neither has a winning record. If this is your argument, despite the turnovers and ineptness of both teams, you're in no place to call anyone's argument lazy.

Oh, and speaking of lazy arguments, the Seahawks are top 5 in time of possession. The other teams in the Top 5? Winning teams, with good to great defenses. The 49ers, Ravens, Patriots, and Packers.

So not only are the Seahawks ranked low in turnovers overall, they're elite in time of possession. And your weak argument is that, despite that...our defense is ranked "16th," or "18th?" LOL. Yea, okay.

If you're going to call someone's argument lazy, at least ATTEMPT to cross reference data. I've now given you time of possession, in addition to turnover metrics from before. The defense should NOT be giving up that many points given low turnovers and time of possession. Period.

And for those who are resistant to the argument Russell is the only reason for our success to this point...he's had only one turnover on the season. He's had to overcome our poor defense, Carson's fumbles, questionable special teams, a still struggling O-line, and poor coaching decisions. If the opposite was true, and Russell was playing average, many of you wouldn't hesitate to give the rest of the team all of the credit

 

[rcaido]

I added up the total. Its total 176 points allowed offense, defense, & special teams.

If you subtract Wilson pick 6, Metcalf fumble, Carson fumble, & punt return TD. That's 28pts right there.

That would be 148. We would be tied 15th best right down the middle. Also 6 teams only played 6 games compared to the 7 game Seahawks has played. So more like top 12.

I think w/ the new trade, our pass rusher gelling soon, we can get back to being a top 10 defense.

Yea sorry, this is the definition of what they call "SPIN" in politics. This logic presumes that the Seahawks are the only team turning the ball over. Every other team is judged the same way. So yes, 176 point is HORRIFIC. Without Russ, we'd be crap.

If you, and others doubt that, let's take a look at some numbers in comparison.

The Seahawks have had only 8 turnovers on the season. Then there's Russ' pick 6, and Metcalf and Carson's fumble return TD.

The Patriots have also had 8 turnovers on the season. By my brief count, two of those were Tom Brady fumbles returned for a TD. The Patriots have only allowed 48 points. FORTY EIGHT, LOL

The Chargers have had 12 turnovers on the season. At the very least, I know that Rivers lost a fumble for a TD against the Steelers. The Chargers have only allowed 141 points

The Browns have had 14 turnovers on the season. Fourteen. Baker has also had a pick six. The Browns have only allowed 156 points.

The Buccaneers have had 13 turnovers on the season. Jameis alone has had three pick sixes. Guess how many points the Buccaneers have allowed? 185 points. So seven points more than the Seahawks. That's sad.

Here are some others:

The 49ers have allowed 64 points, despite Jimmy G's pick six, and 11 turnovers.

The Jets have allowed only 156 points. I don't think I need to bring up Darnold's turnovers. And the ineptness of that offense.

The Rams have allowed 164 points, with 12 turnovers and at least 1 fumble return for a TD by Goff that I can recall.

I can go on. But let's stop with the excuses. There is Zero excuse for 176 points.

Sorry this is the definition of being lazy. You just cant add points to the defense because the person decided to be lazy and omit points that was not given.

I decided to do it myself.

There has been
13 Fumble Tds
17 Int Tds
4 Kick Return Tds
2 Punt Return Tds

I broke it down on the teams that were affected by it.

Bucsx2 = 185 -14 = 171
Browns = 154 -7= 147
Dolphins x3 = 211 - 21 = 190
Saintsx2 = 147- 14 = 133
Jets x3 = 156 - 21 = 145
Redskins x2 = 176-14= 162
Patriotsx3 = 48 - 21= 27 geezus
Bengals = 186 - 7 = 179
49ers = 64 - 7 = 57
Colts= 138 -7 = 131
Packers = 139 - 7= 132
Bills = 91 -7 = 84
Cardinals =192 -7 = 185
Seahawks x4 = 176 - 28= 148
Rams = 164 -7 = 157
Giants =187 - 7= 180
Lions = 160 - 7= 153
Broncos x2 = 136 - 14 = 122
Falcons =223 - 7 = 216
Chargers = 141 - 7 = 134
Jaguars = 148 - 7 = 141
Eagles = 186 - 7 = 179
Ravens = 156 -7 = 149

So instead of the Seahawks ranked 24th, they are actually ranked 18. I put * on teams that only played 6 games so far. So in reality they are ranked 16 as we can assume Jets & Browns will give up at least 3pts next game. Then there are the Colts, Stealers, & Panthers are pretty close too...If they give up at 16pts next week, Seahawks could be as high as 13. Big difference, stop being lazy.


#1 Patriots 27pts
*49ers = 57pts
*Bills 84pts
*Bears 105pts
Titans - 112 pts
Broncos - 122 pts
Vikings - 123 pts
Cowboys - 124 pts
*Colts - 131 pts
*Stealers -131 pts
Packers -132 pts
Saints - 133 pts
*Panthers - 133 pts
Chargers - 134 pts
Jaguars -141 pts
*Jets -145 pts
*Browns -147 pts
# 18 Seahawks - 148 pts

Your argument fell apart the moment you tried to pretend 148 points is good, or even average considering the circumstances. Even worse, you call my argument lazy when I actually included overall turnovers, as well as examples of which teams were affected as part of my argument. Great spin there.

You compared our defense to the Jets and Browns. Another weak argument, since neither has a winning record. If this is your argument, despite the turnovers and ineptness of both teams, you're in no place to call anyone's argument lazy.

Oh, and speaking of lazy arguments, the Seahawks are top 5 in time of possession. The other teams in the Top 5? Winning teams, with good to great defenses. The 49ers, Ravens, Patriots, and Packers.

So not only are the Seahawks ranked low in turnovers overall, they're elite in time of possession. And your weak argument is that, despite that...our defense is ranked "16th," or "18th?" LOL. Yea, okay.

If you're going to call someone's argument lazy, at least ATTEMPT to cross reference data. I've now given you time of possession, in addition to turnover metrics from before. The defense should NOT be giving up that many points given low turnovers and time of possession. Period.

And for those who are resistant to the argument Russell is the only reason for our success to this point...he's had only one turnover on the season. He's had to overcome our poor defense, Carson's fumbles, questionable special teams, a still struggling O-line, and poor coaching decisions. If the opposite was true, and Russell was playing average, many of you wouldn't hesitate to give the rest of the team all of the credit

Its lazy because you included points that was not given up by the defense....

148 points is good enough to be 13th best in the NFL. That's an average of 21.1pts a game. That is at least average and not poor.

As for turnovers & time of possession, you sure love to cherry pick. For one we are not even in the top 10 in turnovers this year. As for time of possession, yes we are in the top 10 in time of possession and so are the #9Saints, #10Packers, & #14Colts points allowed.

Not sure why you're comparing Seahawks to the top 5 team defense.

 

[Natethegreat]

Its not good enough to be 13th though. Thats the point. You can't erase the few points we gave up off offensive turnovers and not do the same for every other defense.
If you want to say they are 18th thats fine. Thats still bad especially considering the poor offenses we have played and the mediocre QB's we have faced so far. Not to mention our slow grind it out style offense.
The D when adjusted for opponents is ranked 24th overall by DVOA. They have been BAD so far this year.

The only thing they have done well so far is RZ defense which has been top 5 in the league percentage wise but I believe that has a lot to do with the caliber of QB we have faced so far this year.

 

[chris98251]

I agree the talent is here for the 2nd half of the season save for TT who has shown he is not of starting quality as a FS.

Things would be significantly better for the D if they could get more of a pass rush and hopefully we will see that begin to happen as the DLine works together more. The addition of Diggs could be a significant upgrade to the back end especially if MacDougald gets healthy and Blair continues to develop. To me both Hill and Thompson have demonstrated they are not starting quality players this their 3rd season and neither have shown they the it factor and both can be improved upon.

I have commented above that the big plays given up by TT have shown he is unsuited for his job, the tackling overall has been poor and the pass rush has been lacking. I once again do not believe the scheme is flawed, broken, or out of date, it is the execution of the scheme that has been the problem. The later is not upon Pete but upon Norton as it is his job to see the players are coached well to play their positions, and that very much includes the execution of their scheme and tackling.

Last season several here were on CB- Griffin for not being Sherman, however his coverage has improved this year. He's not Sherman yet but isn't bad, conversely Flowers was being touted as the next shutdown CB and has regressed a bit as a sophomore, he played well against Baltimore though so perhaps he's gaining confidence again. To me I think we are good at outside CB, NCB remains a position where improvement could be helpful.

This is the reason we have had 3 LB's on the field more then we probably have wanted to, The Safety Position as far as a enforcer guys has been lacking, yeah the rules have changed a bit but you can still form tackle with force which we have not done, lots of shoulder hits, to me that indicates we are smaller then the guy with the ball and use the shoulders instead of a wrap up in our secondary. That needs to be cleaned up a lot, and can with more coaching and practice.