Marshawn Holdout Poll

[pocketprotector]

Among players with at least 500 yards rushing, Marshawn was ranked 23rd in yards per rush. He is not worth a raise.

 

[MB12]

Among players with at least 500 yards rushing, Marshawn was ranked 23rd in yards per rush. He is not worth a raise.

Most people's reply to that would be that we had a terrible offensive line.

 

[-The Glove-]

Among players with at least 500 yards rushing, Marshawn was ranked 23rd in yards per rush. He is not worth a raise.

You're right. Marshawn is clearly not as good as those other 22

 

[pocketprotector]

Among players with at least 500 yards rushing, Marshawn was ranked 23rd in yards per rush. He is not worth a raise.

You're right. Marshawn is clearly not as good as those other 22

Is that what I said?

 

[halfrack]

Over the last.couple of years, it seams to me that the team has had an "all for one, one for all" type attitude. Although Marshawn certainly has the right to seek what he sees as fair compensation, I see holding out as only creating division. I've heard the arguments against this but I say honor your commitments. He wants extra for him at the expense of the team. He signed the contract, play ball.

 

[OkieHawk]

If this is really about his foundation, why not get a guarantee that PA will give a charitable contribution once Lynch retires? It's not like he can't afford it.

 

[bigwrm]

If this is really about his foundation, why not get a guarantee that PA will give a charitable contribution once Lynch retires? It's not like he can't afford it.

No one actually thinks he's doing this for his foundation. That just makes for better PR.

 

[scutterhawk]

It's not like Chris Clemons checked to see if there was a precedent before holding out in 2012. It's not like Doug Baldwin checked to see if there was a precedent when he refused to sign his tender until he got a long term deal. And it's not like Marshawn cares about a precedent right now.

The concept of the holdout has been going on in the league forever and no team is immune to it. There will be more holdouts in the future for Seattle regardless of how they handle this. If a player thinks he has leverage, he will use it. It's as simple as that.

I think the real question is whether or not Marshawn is worth the extra years or money. When Clemons held out, he ended up getting a bunch of money in 2013 and dead money in 2014 that he wouldn't have received otherwise thanks to his late season knee injury at Washington. That extension was a real bummer for Seattle, but they NEEDED Clemons and Clem gave Seattle 11.5 sacks that season.

Seattle has said they are willing to accelerate existing money on the deal and Lynch did not bite, so clearly this is about more money and/or more years. Is Lynch worth that added expense when the remainder of our RB group is so strong? I think he is, but it's a really tough call. If he wants a brand new 4/30 type deal I would say no, but if he just wants a couple extra million this year I would be okay with that.

I think the Seahawks would be okay with that scenario also, but I think Marshawn is pushing for at least one more Year, AND a booster shot to his bank account for the next two.

 

[Largent80]

He PP, your posts are worse than an actual pocket protector.

 

[PlinytheCenter]

I think he's just posturing to get more money and if he does, great; if not, he saves the wear and tear of training camp. Personally I think he's going to retire at the end of the year, if not before. He has been such a tremendous addition to this team and is sad that it's come to this. The FO gave him a great (forward-loaded) contract for his services and that should suffice, but hey, I'm not the one taking the hits. At any rate, he's been great for us and I hope to have him next year. If not, next man up!

 

[samwize77]

I voted option #3
I have no problem moving a little money from next year to this year for ML. But I think the divide between ML and the FO is more than "a little". I'm sure we're talking "millions" as in 2 or 3+.
In the very end. The bottom line so to speak, I'd rather have JS be able to stick to the financial plan that he probably has in place. He has to think of the team, not only for this year, but years to come. ML is already being paid very very well as we all know. IMHO he's being paid on par with other RB's in the league and with the production he puts out.
We all know ML is a quirky kinda guy. I think he'd have made a ton more money in endorsements if he weren't. If he were more open to the media that would have helped alot in that respect. And now, holding out, that will probably hurt him after this year if, indeed, he does get cut. Not many teams are going to look at ML's history here, and in Buffalo and want to pay him MUCH MORE than any other RB that happens to be on the market. Even if he has a great 2014 season. As much as I like Beast and his quirky side, I can't help but think sometimes he can be his own worst enemy.
In a way, 2014 is a contract year for Beast. I hope for his sake he comes out and kicks some serious ass and we keep him around for 2015, so he can get the $'s he's looking for. Earn everything.

 

[seedhawk]

Good Christ on a crutch. Do many of you people believe these athletes set up foundations out of the goodness of their hearts?

Hypothetical. R Wilson gets drafted in the 3rd round, is locked in to a very basic contract that starts about 400K and ends at whatever the hell it ends at. Even his first year puts him in the highest tax bracket on a bunch of his money. What does our hypothetical Qb do? He and his agent set up a tax free foundation, and dump as much money as possible into it. Why you ask? Because, Wilson when he is done earning and playing, can then have his foundation pay him a salary at whatever level he chooses. RW has now saved a ton of money in taxes alone, his agent still gets to draw his whatever the hell his percent is, and people like you and me wind up paying even more for tickets and merchandise, etc.

I feel NO SORROW or remorse for Lynch. If he indeed needs more because he or his agent made a mistake, or he has grander plans for his foundation, then TELL US what they are.

Not to burst anyone's bubble here, or rag on folks but, I am a piddly crap farmer, and my family set up a LLC to shelter1.4M from good ole uncle sugar. All legal and above board. My god, if we can do it, makes perfect sense to me any agent worth his salt can do the same thing.

Another example I think fits. New combine for my farm now costs 300K. Add in the header to make it work, now costs 425K. But, like a new car, the day I take delivery, that expensive ass stinker starts to depreciate. Under current rules, in 7 years, even if I spend 150K for repairs, it is worth 30% of its cost. Done deal.

Lynch is the same thing to the Hawks. He has depreciated. Fact of life.

We now return you to you're scheduled programming.

 

[warden]

Speculation is that the Seahawks will cut him next season. This is not fact. The Seahawks have not come out and said anything of the sort. Yes it is a possibility .People suggest that there is no way that they pay him that much, but what gets missed is how much they have to pay him and how much of a cap hit he has. Two different animals. Next year Lynch will have a base salary of 5.5 mil and a roster bonus of 2 mil which totals 7.5 mil (yes I know there is a cap hit of over 9 mil but a couple mil of that is owed to the cap weather Lynch is on the team or not). 30 mil contract divided by 4 years is 7.5 mil. So next year Lynch is owed the average of his 4 year contract. This year he is owed 5.5 mil. The first 2 years he was paid 17 mil. So in actual fact we paid Lynch more money in each of his first 2 season then we will pay him for the last season. This was a front loaded contract. Now that the numbers drop a bit in year 3 there is I am not getting paid like others stuff.

 

[Schadie001]

The bottom line is this isn't a new thing. This is the fact of the NFL and contracts that aren't guaranteed. Lynch isn't the first player to ever think about his future and won't be the last. He is playing the card that he has and is hoping that it wins him a little more cash. I don't think that it is time to call him names, go crazy because he isn't in camp, etc, etc,etc...we aren't unique and hopefully the Beast reports soon. I don't see them paying him anymore as he is already paid as a top 5 back but we are a better team with him. Our front office has the con and hasn't let us down thus far. The Beast doesn't practice anyway so as long as he comes in shape and ready to play I don't care whether he's in training camp or not and I'm sure they feel the same.

 

[Tokadub]

I voted force him to honor contract but no fines. It seems they agree since they moved Lynch to the reserve list.

I just think our money situation is way too tight to do much for Lynch even if we wanted to. I think it'd be best to roll as much unspent money possible into next season. Even if we have excess cap space this season we REALLY need it for next season.

Lynch certainly deserves a little more in my opinion he's earned it. But then again like another poster mentioned, HIS CONTRACT WAS FRONT LOADED!!! So it's not like we are really disrespecting him or taking advantage of him. He's already made a ton of money and his 5 million this year is still top 5 for a RB? That's pretty fair...

The question is can Christine Michael step up to be our #1 RB? I'm really not too confident about that simply because I don't trust our O-Line to give him the space he needs. Michael is not gonna just put his head down and smash through guys and make positive plays out of nothing. He may do that occasionally, but in general I expect that he will look for the running lanes and if they're not there he'll take off towards the sideline.

So I think we have 2 options:

1) See if Christine Michael can fill in for Lynch. If he can't then we throw the ball slightly more which I'd like to see anyways if Harvin stays healthy. We really need to let Russell throw the ball a little more this season and develop a steady quick passing game to overcome our horrible pass blocking.

So I think it's possible we could be OK without Lynch assuming he continues to hold out or threatens retirement.

2) We want to win another Super Bowl. If we are sensing that we NEED Lynch and that my option 1 is significantly less likely to win a Super Bowl... well then in my opinion we gotta make Lynch happy.

Lynch has a 2 million dollar roster bonus for next season. That's probably the money he's looking at and getting kinda pissed about if he thinks he will be cut next season like so many of us suspect. So I think we could add $500,000 of his 2015 roster bonus to his 2014 Salary. And then another $1,000,000 could be set aside for Lynch this season as financial incentives but we'd need to make it really hard to get like Lynch having a career year. Stuff like 5 yards per carry, no fumbles, Super Bowl Victory, X amount of yards for the season could each be $250,000 of his incentives.

Essentially Lynch would need to have a career year to get the $1,000,000 incentives, and we'd give him $500,000 more straight up.

If Lynch did have an incredible year suddenly his contract next year may be slightly more realistic for us to keep him since it'd be $1,500,000 less, and if Lynch is coming off a career year then why would we cut him in 2015? Should be a win-win scenario.


Conclusion:

That's my best analysis with a potential solution that I can think of right now.

I'm hoping we can go for option 1 and Lynch decides to play even without more money and less snaps as we work Christine Michael into the rotation. But if Lynch decides to retire or continues to hold out if we don't budge I think option #2 may be the best choice assuming Christine Michael can't fill his shoes.

Doing option #2 could actually cause us to lose a player next season though. I'd really like to find a way to keep Maxwell but I'm kinda doubtful we can do it even without paying Lynch more this season and letting him go in 2015.

There's also many other players that may be difficult to keep once we pay Wilson. I'm hoping Wilson gives us a discount and doesn't go for $20 million plus but I wouldn't expect him to or hold it against him if he does. Just gonna be difficult to keep our best players for much longer if he gets paid top dollar.

 

[gargantual]

I seriously love Beastmode and can't help seeing past how much he embodies the spiritual heart of this team. I don't think we make the Super Bowl last year without him. As much as I trust Kip and others talking about Michael's potential to "Beast Out", I worry about the drop off if we don't have 'Shawn on the field. Until CM proves he can at least match Lynch's production during regular season actual gametime, it's all speculation.

I know that's all the nature of the game and business (making blind leaps of faith), but my gut feeling is that it's like the Clemons situation. There's a real likelihood he has a serious drop off looming by 2015 or so, but right now we really need him and the tone that he sets for the entire team, even on the D side of the ball.

I sure hope I'm wrong, and this isn't just the lingering vestiges of my old Seahawks same-old same-old mentality (ie something will end up bringing disappointment)......a feeling that I'd thought had finally been exorcised in the later Carroll/Schneider Era. I guess it's hard to let go of being a Nervous Nelly.

I suppose though that Marshawn voluntarily holding out is no different than sitting on the bench due to injury. He's such a tough SOB, but that's obviously a possibility for any snap for any and all players out there.

 

[gargantual]

Our front office has the con and hasn't let us down thus far.

Good point. They've done more than enough to trust their judgement by now.

The Beast doesn't practice anyway so as long as he comes in shape and ready to play I don't care whether he's in training camp or not and I'm sure they feel the same.

This thought occurred to me as well. I can see him holding out, even thoughout the preseason games, but I'm pretty sure he won't drag it all the way into the actual season. I think the FO will feel the same and wait for him to blink.

 

[kearly]

I think the tone of this thread and topic in general on the airwaves has been whether to reward or punish Lynch for holding out. Sure, that is part of the discussion, but I look at it a little differently.

What dollar value do you put on Lynch's absence? Last year, Seattle was one loss away from being a WC, and some of their wins were razor close. If Michael/Turbin/Ware proves to be a substantial dropoff from Lynch, then we will probably regret Lynch's absence.

If this were KJ Wright holding out, I'd tell him to take a hike. I think our team would be 99% as good without him because I believe in our LB depth. I am not quite sure what to make of our RB situation though. Michael has more pure rushing talent than Lynch, but he will not beat up defenses the way Lynch does. Our identity is going to be different in a hypothetical Christine Michael era. I think Michael is going to be very good, but Seattle might still be better off with the identity that Lynch brings.

 

[kearly]

Also, is it too early to start wondering about a trade scenario potentially developing? If this holdout becomes serious, the prospect of trading Lynch will become more appealing to Seattle. Lynch is still in his prime until proven otherwise, and I could see a lot of teams having interest, particularly the New England Patriots or New Orleans Saints.

 

[brimsalabim]

I don't see why the middle option is even there. They can either cave to him or else not. They can't hold him to his contract but also not fine him. If anything, if they cave, they will still fine him for the lost days prior to the new deal.

I heard one of the guys on the NFL network say that he has never actually heard of a player actually writing that check if he returned from the hold out.
I do hope JS can work something out with Lynch with out having to go to far though. I don't want to jeopardize all the great contract work he has done the past two off seasons. If he gives in to much here he will have BDB back in his office before he can blink an eye. I also hope CM is ready to roll.