Jon Gruden and Raiders parting ways.

[hgwellz12]

No, it's a valid point. You can make fun at one persons looks but not someone else's strictly because they have different pigmentation in their skin. It's the definition of hypocrisy

Yup, this is correct. But you're on a website where a lot of posters spill their soy over their keyboards over the smallest offense, so it's normal.

You're both full of $h!t, but it's absolutely your right to be full of $h!t so I ain't about to sit here going back and forth with you. Besides, nothing either one of us has to say here is gonna get Chucky his job back. Enjoy your sloppy joe sandwich. :2thumbs:

Of course you don't want to actually use facts and logic, or even make an actual point. Just tell someone they are full of it and run away covering your ears. Pathetic

You two are attempting to equate longstanding racial tropes with lighthearted joking about someone looking like a movie character. You're full of shit and there's no 2 ways about it, no matter how much you wish there is. Furthermore, Jon Gruden fully embraced and leaned into the "Chucky" joke. Personally, I wouldn't get upset by someone jokingly saying that I have big lips. I DO have big lips. It's one of the many features of being of African descent. And, frankly, the only people who's opinion even matters in regards to my African features, is the female population. And I have always been good in that regard.

But Gruden's INTENT when making the comment about Smith's lips + his other bigoted comments was clearly enough for Raiders top brass to make the business decision of "letting him resign". Wrong, right or otherwise, they are the ones that all of you Captain Save A Chucky mfers need to puff your chest out to. Not me. We got our own clown ass coach to be concerned with. Now, politely ease up off my tip, Junior.

 

[hgwellz12]

You are 100% free to say anything you want others to hear. If you have enough conviction in your thoughts to make them known to everyone then have the same conviction in owning those words and the consequences that may come with them.

Is that what Gruden did? and I'm not standing up for what he said. Gruden did not make his comments public. Those words were not meant for public...

So your saying I'm wrong, that it doesn't raise a question as to what kind of free speech is appropriate to our society and when?

LTH

I don’t make the rules or speak for all of our society. Are you not aware that email and or Internet communication is not nor ever been private?
In our society this type of guilt isn’t determined by who outed the offender or if that outing was ethical. It’s determined by an individuals actions or words. The court of public opinion vs. court of law…

And I didn’t make any claim as to you being wrong or right. That post was a direct answer to a question you asked.
Society can be quite fickle, acceptable dialogue has changed many times. So I would say that it is the responsibility of the individual to understand what the current climate is and understand that what they say may come with consequences.

I think you bring up a good point whether I knew if Email was private. I guess I assumed that it is supposed to be private being all the privacy settings and security on email... But then again when I searched for a lawn mower seat on google then went to my email and there is lawn mower seat ads on my email... ok... :34853_doh:

That clearly makes every person who has email venerable potentially to what Gruden is going through even though Gruden wasn't hacked there are a lot of gray area's in that subject.

You are right in the assertion that it is the responsibility of the individual to understand what the current climate is and understand that what they say may come with consequences.

I'm SURE that Gruden did not know his email wasn't private...

I think we are entering a time when the question of what free speech is, being redefined from what most think it is as to what it is becoming and IMO there are being some dangerous precedents being set especially in social media...


LTH

At it's most basic level, what do you guys think "FREE SPEECH"/ The 1st Amendment protected you from?

 

[LTH]

Is that what Gruden did? and I'm not standing up for what he said. Gruden did not make his comments public. Those words were not meant for public...

So your saying I'm wrong, that it doesn't raise a question as to what kind of free speech is appropriate to our society and when?

LTH

I don’t make the rules or speak for all of our society. Are you not aware that email and or Internet communication is not nor ever been private?
In our society this type of guilt isn’t determined by who outed the offender or if that outing was ethical. It’s determined by an individuals actions or words. The court of public opinion vs. court of law…

And I didn’t make any claim as to you being wrong or right. That post was a direct answer to a question you asked.
Society can be quite fickle, acceptable dialogue has changed many times. So I would say that it is the responsibility of the individual to understand what the current climate is and understand that what they say may come with consequences.

I think you bring up a good point whether I knew if Email was private. I guess I assumed that it is supposed to be private being all the privacy settings and security on email... But then again when I searched for a lawn mower seat on google then went to my email and there is lawn mower seat ads on my email... ok... :34853_doh:

That clearly makes every person who has email venerable potentially to what Gruden is going through even though Gruden wasn't hacked there are a lot of gray area's in that subject.

You are right in the assertion that it is the responsibility of the individual to understand what the current climate is and understand that what they say may come with consequences.

I'm SURE that Gruden did not know his email wasn't private...

I think we are entering a time when the question of what free speech is, being redefined from what most think it is as to what it is becoming and IMO there are being some dangerous precedents being set especially in social media...


LTH

At it's most basic level, what do you guys think "FREE SPEECH"/ The 1st Amendment protected you from?

I'm not sure anymore... I think its being redefined in several different ways...


LTH

 

[hgwellz12]

I don’t make the rules or speak for all of our society. Are you not aware that email and or Internet communication is not nor ever been private?
In our society this type of guilt isn’t determined by who outed the offender or if that outing was ethical. It’s determined by an individuals actions or words. The court of public opinion vs. court of law…

And I didn’t make any claim as to you being wrong or right. That post was a direct answer to a question you asked.
Society can be quite fickle, acceptable dialogue has changed many times. So I would say that it is the responsibility of the individual to understand what the current climate is and understand that what they say may come with consequences.

I think you bring up a good point whether I knew if Email was private. I guess I assumed that it is supposed to be private being all the privacy settings and security on email... But then again when I searched for a lawn mower seat on google then went to my email and there is lawn mower seat ads on my email... ok... :34853_doh:

That clearly makes every person who has email venerable potentially to what Gruden is going through even though Gruden wasn't hacked there are a lot of gray area's in that subject.

You are right in the assertion that it is the responsibility of the individual to understand what the current climate is and understand that what they say may come with consequences.

I'm SURE that Gruden did not know his email wasn't private...

I think we are entering a time when the question of what free speech is, being redefined from what most think it is as to what it is becoming and IMO there are being some dangerous precedents being set especially in social media...


LTH

At it's most basic level, what do you guys think "FREE SPEECH"/ The 1st Amendment protected you from?

I'm not sure anymore... I think its being redefined in several different ways...


LTH

I thought it was obvious but I guess I overestimated.

What DID you think it protected you from?

 

[LTH]

I think you bring up a good point whether I knew if Email was private. I guess I assumed that it is supposed to be private being all the privacy settings and security on email... But then again when I searched for a lawn mower seat on google then went to my email and there is lawn mower seat ads on my email... ok... :34853_doh:

That clearly makes every person who has email venerable potentially to what Gruden is going through even though Gruden wasn't hacked there are a lot of gray area's in that subject.

You are right in the assertion that it is the responsibility of the individual to understand what the current climate is and understand that what they say may come with consequences.

I'm SURE that Gruden did not know his email wasn't private...

I think we are entering a time when the question of what free speech is, being redefined from what most think it is as to what it is becoming and IMO there are being some dangerous precedents being set especially in social media...


LTH

At it's most basic level, what do you guys think "FREE SPEECH"/ The 1st Amendment protected you from?

I'm not sure anymore... I think its being redefined in several different ways...


LTH

I thought it was obvious but I guess I overestimated.

What DID you think it protected you from?

I have to think about that,,,But go ahead and make your point


LTH

 

[pmedic920]

Not defending Gruden, not condoning his words. Won’t get into it.

However, the cancel culture we are currently living in is 100% sickening to me.

For instance, last time my daughter and son in law were at my house, SIL slapped my ass and said “good game”, it was Tom foolery 100%.
I called him a fag.
This is something that I would never say out of hate or malice to a homosexual but taken out of context I could/would get blasted and possibly “canceled” if I were in a position of power and it got leaked.

Today’s culture is absolutely ridiculous IMHO.

 

[LTH]

I think you bring up a good point whether I knew if Email was private. I guess I assumed that it is supposed to be private being all the privacy settings and security on email... But then again when I searched for a lawn mower seat on google then went to my email and there is lawn mower seat ads on my email... ok... :34853_doh:

That clearly makes every person who has email venerable potentially to what Gruden is going through even though Gruden wasn't hacked there are a lot of gray area's in that subject.

You are right in the assertion that it is the responsibility of the individual to understand what the current climate is and understand that what they say may come with consequences.

I'm SURE that Gruden did not know his email wasn't private...

I think we are entering a time when the question of what free speech is, being redefined from what most think it is as to what it is becoming and IMO there are being some dangerous precedents being set especially in social media...


LTH

At it's most basic level, what do you guys think "FREE SPEECH"/ The 1st Amendment protected you from?

I'm not sure anymore... I think its being redefined in several different ways...


LTH

I thought it was obvious but I guess I overestimated.

What DID you think it protected you from?

You have the right to say what you want, write what you want ,with out being persecuted

edit: prohibits any law limiting freedom with respect to religion, expression, peaceful assembly, or the right of citizens to petition the government.

LTH

 

[hgwellz12]

Not defending Gruden, not condoning his words. Won’t get into it.

However, the cancel culture we are currently living in is 100% sickening to me.

For instance, last time my daughter and son in law were at my house, SIL slapped my ass and said “good game”, it was Tom foolery 100%.
I called him a f**.
This is something that I would never say out of hate or malice to a hom******* but taken out of context I could/would get blasted and possibly “canceled” if I were in a position of power and it got leaked.

Today’s culture is absolutely ridiculous IMHO.

Heavy is the crown...

 

[LTH]

I think you bring up a good point whether I knew if Email was private. I guess I assumed that it is supposed to be private being all the privacy settings and security on email... But then again when I searched for a lawn mower seat on google then went to my email and there is lawn mower seat ads on my email... ok... :34853_doh:

That clearly makes every person who has email venerable potentially to what Gruden is going through even though Gruden wasn't hacked there are a lot of gray area's in that subject.

You are right in the assertion that it is the responsibility of the individual to understand what the current climate is and understand that what they say may come with consequences.

I'm SURE that Gruden did not know his email wasn't private...

I think we are entering a time when the question of what free speech is, being redefined from what most think it is as to what it is becoming and IMO there are being some dangerous precedents being set especially in social media...


LTH

At it's most basic level, what do you guys think "FREE SPEECH"/ The 1st Amendment protected you from?

I'm not sure anymore... I think its being redefined in several different ways...


LTH

I thought it was obvious but I guess I overestimated.

What DID you think it protected you from?

So what's your point?


LTH

 

[Flyingsquad23]

Not defending Gruden, not condoning his words. Won’t get into it.

However, the cancel culture we are currently living in is 100% sickening to me.

For instance, last time my daughter and son in law were at my house, SIL slapped my ass and said “good game”, it was Tom foolery 100%.
I called him a f**.
This is something that I would never say out of hate or malice to a hom******* but taken out of context I could/would get blasted and possibly “canceled” if I were in a position of power and it got leaked.

Today’s culture is absolutely ridiculous IMHO.

Is it any more ridiculous than a person thinking they (in Grudens case) can insult powerful and influential people and not face repercussions.

The fact that you feel comfortable in your own home saying things you wouldn’t say to a persons face says to me that you understand that what you are saying is wrong yet you can’t quite stop yourself from being yourself.

 

[pmedic920]

Context and intent is what should matter in matters like this.

Gruden called a gay person “queer”, right.

What does lbgtQ stand for?

Fact is, what Gruden said in those emails was a private conversation, he was not saying anything to hurt anyone, there was no ill intentions.

The cancel culture is out of control, and it’s only going to get worse.

Insensitive absolutely, worth getting canceled over?

Eff that crap, it’s as bad as the dude that got canceled for saying a football is harder to see when a black man in a black jersey is holding it, than when a white/light skinned man is holding it.

Everyone looking for a reason to be offended.
It’s absolutely 100% ridiculous.

Again, not defending Gruden not condoning his choice of words, I’m calling BS on “cancel culture”

 

[hgwellz12]

At it's most basic level, what do you guys think "FREE SPEECH"/ The 1st Amendment protected you from?

I'm not sure anymore... I think its being redefined in several different ways...


LTH

I thought it was obvious but I guess I overestimated.

What DID you think it protected you from?

So what's your point?


LTH

It depends. How are you a grown ass adult and can't say what you think/thought the 1A means?


Edit: I just saw your other post. Will respond in the proper thread.

 

[hgwellz12]

At it's most basic level, what do you guys think "FREE SPEECH"/ The 1st Amendment protected you from?

I'm not sure anymore... I think its being redefined in several different ways...


LTH

I thought it was obvious but I guess I overestimated.

What DID you think it protected you from?

You have the right to say what you want, write what you want ,with out being persecuted

edit: prohibits any law limiting freedom with respect to religion, expression, peaceful assembly, or the right of citizens to petition the government.

LTH

So with this knowledge firmly in hand, where is the problem, from a legal/constitutional standpoint, with how Chucky is being dealt with?

 

[LTH]

Not defending Gruden, not condoning his words. Won’t get into it.

However, the cancel culture we are currently living in is 100% sickening to me.

For instance, last time my daughter and son in law were at my house, SIL slapped my ass and said “good game”, it was Tom foolery 100%.
I called him a f**.
This is something that I would never say out of hate or malice to a hom******* but taken out of context I could/would get blasted and possibly “canceled” if I were in a position of power and it got leaked.

Today’s culture is absolutely ridiculous IMHO.

Is it any more ridiculous than a person thinking they (in Grudens case) can insult powerful and influential people and not face repercussions.

The fact that you feel comfortable in your own home saying things you wouldn’t say to a persons face says to me that you understand that what you are saying is wrong yet you can’t quite stop yourself from being yourself.

Interesting... what difference does that make? what he said was meant to be private. Maybe he had a bad day. Maybe he is an a$$hole. Does he not have the right to talk to a friend and vent with out having repercussions? Legit question...


LTH

 

[pmedic920]

Not defending Gruden, not condoning his words. Won’t get into it.

However, the cancel culture we are currently living in is 100% sickening to me.

For instance, last time my daughter and son in law were at my house, SIL slapped my ass and said “good game”, it was Tom foolery 100%.
I called him a f**.
This is something that I would never say out of hate or malice to a hom******* but taken out of context I could/would get blasted and possibly “canceled” if I were in a position of power and it got leaked.

Today’s culture is absolutely ridiculous IMHO.

Is it any more ridiculous than a person thinking they (in Grudens case) can insult powerful and influential people and not face repercussions.

The fact that you feel comfortable in your own home saying things you wouldn’t say to a persons face says to me that you understand that what you are saying is wrong yet you can’t quite stop yourself from being yourself.

Are you defending “cancel culture”?

Gruden called Roger G. a pussy.
Fact is millions of people (nfl fans and employees) think the same exact thing, and many have said so right he on this forum. Gruden said it in a private conversation with no intention of hurting ole Rogers’s feelings.


Ever seen an ugly baby and told your wife “that was an ugly baby”?
Maybe not, but if you have I’d bet you’re a good enough human to not say it to the babies mother.

My stance is “eff cancel culture”, and be willing to take context and intention into account while hunting for witches.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

Context and intent is what should matter in matters like this.

Gruden called a g** person “qu***”, right.

What does lbgtQ stand for?

Fact is, what Gruden said in those emails was a private conversation, he was not saying anything to hurt anyone, there was no ill intentions.

The cancel culture is out of control, and it’s only going to get worse.

Insensitive absolutely, worth getting canceled over?

Eff that crap, it’s as bad as the dude that got canceled for saying a football is harder to see when a black man in a black jersey is holding it, than when a white/light skinned man is holding it.

Everyone looking for a reason to be offended.
It’s absolutely 100% ridiculous.

Again, not defending Gruden not condoning his choice of words, I’m calling BS on “cancel culture”

Honest questions…have you ever been offended by another persons words or actions in your life? If so, what gave validity to your offense? Have you personally said or done anything to offend that you made amends for? If so, why did you give validation to that person’s feelings?

Gruden lost a job he was having minimal success with, so what. He will find something else. The man wrote disparaging things about people whom he would never dare address face to face in that way.

I would absolutely expect a negative impact on my life if I said any of those things about my employer/peer/subordinate, regardless of how they became aware of my feeling.

 

[pmedic920]

Here’s a fact.

There are real criminals playing in the NFL.

Due to “cancel culture” Gruden was forced to resign over a private conversation where no ill intentions existed.

Wife beaters, rapists, drunk drivers etc etc.

Think about it for just one minute.

 

[LTH]

Context and intent is what should matter in matters like this.

Gruden called a g** person “qu***”, right.

What does lbgtQ stand for?

Fact is, what Gruden said in those emails was a private conversation, he was not saying anything to hurt anyone, there was no ill intentions.

The cancel culture is out of control, and it’s only going to get worse.

Insensitive absolutely, worth getting canceled over?

Eff that crap, it’s as bad as the dude that got canceled for saying a football is harder to see when a black man in a black jersey is holding it, than when a white/light skinned man is holding it.

Everyone looking for a reason to be offended.
It’s absolutely 100% ridiculous.

Again, not defending Gruden not condoning his choice of words, I’m calling BS on “cancel culture”

Honest questions…have you ever been offended by another persons words or actions in your life? If so, what gave validity to your offense? Have you personally said or done anything to offend that you made amends for? If so, why did you give validation to that person’s feelings?

Gruden lost a job he was having minimal success with, so what. He will find something else. The man wrote disparaging things about people whom he would never dare address face to face in that way.

I would absolutely expect a negative impact on my life if I said any of those things about my employer/peer/subordinate, regardless of how they became aware of my feeling.

I have... I walk around the corner while one of my employee's was talking trash about me... I didn't like it much but I didn't fire him.. he doesn't have to like me as long as he does what I tell him to do and he does it well... I don't care what he thinks...I didn't take it personally... I did how ever call him into my office and talk to him about it... we worked it out and its not an issue so I'm not sure what your point is...

 

[pmedic920]

Context and intent is what should matter in matters like this.

Gruden called a g** person “qu***”, right.

What does lbgtQ stand for?

Fact is, what Gruden said in those emails was a private conversation, he was not saying anything to hurt anyone, there was no ill intentions.

The cancel culture is out of control, and it’s only going to get worse.

Insensitive absolutely, worth getting canceled over?

Eff that crap, it’s as bad as the dude that got canceled for saying a football is harder to see when a black man in a black jersey is holding it, than when a white/light skinned man is holding it.

Everyone looking for a reason to be offended.
It’s absolutely 100% ridiculous.

Again, not defending Gruden not condoning his choice of words, I’m calling BS on “cancel culture”

Honest questions…have you ever been offended by another persons words or actions in your life? If so, what gave validity to your offense? Have you personally said or done anything to offend that you made amends for? If so, why did you give validation to that person’s feelings?

Gruden lost a job he was having minimal success with, so what. He will find something else. The man wrote disparaging things about people whom he would never dare address face to face in that way.

I would absolutely expect a negative impact on my life if I said any of those things about my employer/peer/subordinate, regardless of how they became aware of my feeling.

We are both welcome to our opinions.

If your going to tell me that you’ve never said a negative thing about an employer, you’re either very young and haven’t had many jobs, been self employed your whole life, been very lucky, or a liar.

I’m not trying to change anybody’s mind, and I’m not defending Gruden, I’m saying “eff cancel culture”, and folks need to stop hunting reasons to be offended.

Fact is, if these emails had not been made public, none of Grudens words would have ever hurt anybody’s feelings, and that’s where context and intent comes in.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

Not defending Gruden, not condoning his words. Won’t get into it.

However, the cancel culture we are currently living in is 100% sickening to me.

For instance, last time my daughter and son in law were at my house, SIL slapped my ass and said “good game”, it was Tom foolery 100%.
I called him a f**.
This is something that I would never say out of hate or malice to a hom******* but taken out of context I could/would get blasted and possibly “canceled” if I were in a position of power and it got leaked.

Today’s culture is absolutely ridiculous IMHO.

Is it any more ridiculous than a person thinking they (in Grudens case) can insult powerful and influential people and not face repercussions.

The fact that you feel comfortable in your own home saying things you wouldn’t say to a persons face says to me that you understand that what you are saying is wrong yet you can’t quite stop yourself from being yourself.

Interesting... what difference does that make? what he said was meant to be private. Maybe he had a bad day. Maybe he is an a$$hole. Does he not have the right to talk to a friend and vent with out having repercussions? Legit question...


LTH

Not sure what your first question is referring too. As for the second question
I guess it depends on the level of offense taken and pettiness of the individual. You got to know the temperature of the room.