Is the weak link Bevell?

[SoulfishHawk]

Bevell needs to check his ego, and get over himself. He RARELY seems to mix it up. Same crap over and over again. So incredibly predictable.

 

[HawkMeat]

For all the success we have finding D players late in the draft, Pete and co have struck out on oline. That is the true weak link of this team. Shore that up, get a true dominant WR and this team can have a great 5-7 year run.

This. :th2thumbs:

The team lacks a true #1, X, and it kills the offense. The o'line actually held up ok yesterday. The WR drops, lack of separation, and Russell had a poor game. Not worried about Russ as much as the WR and the money tied up in this position is going to hurt.

Bevell I am torn, because it is hard to know how much of it is the on the WR, Qb, Blocking, and opposing defense. If a play works out it may be the play calling, or it may not be, and same when it does not work. This is a team loss, and poor play. I criticize Bevell at times, but it isn't only on him for when it does not work out. Without a true number 1 WR the team will be held back a bit.

 

[TwistedHusky]

A lot of players had bad games yesterday.

The difference is that Bevell has had more than a few bad showings, not just yesterday.

Most of them were games where his defense masked his inadequacies, but there was still a ridiculous lack of production from him.

Strategically, I don't like how we pin things on the run. Maybe that is what we have to because that is what we have, but right now our pass game is based on being able to run. That means if you can shut our run game down, you shut our pass game down too.

Oddly enough, the Rams provided the blueprint to the league on how to beat us, even when they didn't. And all the teams that have given us fits since, looked to at least have cribbed a bit from that game. Now we have to play the Rams again and I am not sure that our OC is smart enough or capable enough to figure out how to offset that. And even if he is, his tendency to go conservative the more important a game is means we probably don't do well in the playoffs if we have to rely on him.

It is disheartening to know that the biggest and most glaring weakness on your team affects at least half of your success. The occasional outlier like the Saints game does not cover up for the fact that we have an OC that is inconsistent at best.

 

[NFSeahawks]

Don't get me started with Bevell. I've been calling for his head since last year. I just can't stand the slow starts I believe there was one or two games year that we opened up a 10+ point lead before the half but other than those two games nothing. I get that I'm spoiled with this team but considering I wasn't very much a big fan of his last year, eh, I'm probably on to something. He has got to get this offense running smoother. I don't have all the answers but Bevell, blech.

Where's Sarlacc? We need him in here demanding that we list five better candidates than Bevell for OC, implying that he's amazing because we can't drop those names.

I was asleep/avoiding the drama. I don't have game review, so I can't comment on the specific offensive gameplan, but I remember one play yesterday where Tate cleared out space for an easy slant to Lockette on 3rd and 6 (?). It was good play design. Then by the end of the game, I also remember Tate and Kearse hobbling around; basically killing our WR corps. Then there was the constant pressure where Wilson didn't escape and take the easy 10 yards cleared out in the middle because he wanted to chuck it deep. I remember some deep passes going off of fingers and/or not being caught in general.

I do agree that there should have been more throws to TEs, but like I said yesterday, someone would have to check the All-22 to make sure Wilson wasn't missing those guys. I also don't understand why they didn't go back to the bubble screen more times. Bevell didn't have a great game, but then again, no one did. What worries me is that Pete's gone back to 2010 and is relying too much on deep shots and explosive plays because he doesn't want those 10-15 play drives where a turnover might happen. I mean, that's what he wants for defense, right? So he sure doesn't want that for our offense. It's like having 3 point shooters as your main stars in the NBA. When they're on, you'll kill the other team, but if they're not, you're going to look terrible all game.

Also, what I'm implying is that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to offensive gameplanning. Just so we're clear.

I agree that Pete, Bevell might be ignoring the possible longer drives (as we never see them) in favor of quick strikes and unfortunately I think thats a recipe that is going to fail more often than not on most days even though we've had success this year. Russell Wilson has proven he can lead a TD driver as fast as any other QB in the league and he's also shown the ability to avoid the turnover in important times, except for yesterday. The majority of his INT's over his short career have been on tipped balls and end of game situations/rare when the Seahawks are behind.

Because of what I've already seen from Russell Wilson it makes it hard for me to put the majority of the blame on him even in a bad game, yes I acknowledge he didn't play his best football, but in situations where we have the ball at the 3 yard line before a half and aren't able to score a TD? We have Marshawn Lynch, we have Russell Wilson who can roll out, and if nothing else I think Bevell might be over thinking the situation.

I've noticed all season the Seahawks move inside the red zone without fail, but constantly and alarmingly this year they've come up short a lot. Why not run the same plays that got you into the red zone? I understand you're closer to scoring and that might limit your passing plays/routes but I just can't believe that Bevell is saving plays for the playoffs, nor do I think thats a good idea for consistent success.

Bevell isn't consistent enough right now at the OC position, he's had some really good games but he's also had some really poor ones.

As for this post I'm going to turn the page fully and expect to see an improved Seahawks offense against the Rams.

Just voicing my overall concern right now with Bevell.

 

[jdblack]

I'm not sure it's possible for an OC to be as incompetent as it appears he (or Pete) is. Either something is incredibly messed up with how coaches are selected in the NFL, or we're still hiding our playbook.

Football is a game with complexities that can take advantage of genius-level IQ, but it seems like it is still a old boy's club for the most part. There are probably tens of thousands of gifted people out that could significantly out-perform most OCs if they were hired on the spot, either by creating the plays themselves or writing code that would automatically generate plays.

 

[sc85sis]

Please consider what I'm saying and don't crucify me for it.

Russell is short--for a starting QB. He has to find lanes to see and throw in. It's entirely possible that those lanes are more often to the sides of the field than down the middle, especially considering how much he scrambles.

Yes, play design/calling plays a part. So does pass pro. So does receivers getting open. So does the run game.

That's the point--it's not just one issue. The offense as a whole just isn't all "there" right now. If it were just one issue, Pete would have fixed it already. The fact that it's more complicated is why this is somewhat troublesome, and why Pete is clearly a bit concerned (listen to his recent shows on Brock and Danny).

We as fans can point fingers at individual players and coaches all we want, but the offense and coaching staff together are the ones who need to figure it out, hopefully soon.

The NFL is hard. Those other players and coaches are pretty good too and sometimes they'll outplay or out-coach our guys.

Enjoy the ride. Don't take it for granted.

 

[Atradees]

Bevell sucks it. Your probably not even reading at this point because you you heard that 65 different ways.

He could do nothing with Favre and Adrian Peterson a line and various other pieces...

 

[-The Glove-]

Please consider what I'm saying and don't crucify me for it.

Russell is short--for a starting QB. He has to find lanes to see and throw in. It's entirely possible that those lanes are more often to the sides of the field than down the middle, especially considering how much he scrambles.

Yes, play design/calling plays a part. So does pass pro. So does receivers getting open. So does the run game.

That's the point--it's not just one issue. The offense as a whole just isn't all "there" right now. If it were just one issue, Pete would have fixed it already. The fact that it's more complicated is why this is somewhat troublesome, and why Pete is clearly a bit concerned (listen to his recent shows on Brock and Danny).

We as fans can point fingers at individual players and coaches all we want, but the offense and coaching staff together are the ones who need to figure it out, hopefully soon.

The NFL is hard. Those other players and coaches are pretty good too and sometimes they'll outplay or out-coach our guys.

Enjoy the ride. Don't take it for granted.

Last year we saw most of his TD's come from passes down the middle. Sorry but I'm not buying this line of thought that they're game planning to the edges because of his height

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

If we didn't have a QB that could scramble and throw on the run, we'd probably be near the bottom of the league in offensive production. We have no pocket passing game to speak of.

How much of a factor really is Bevell in our lack of a pocket passing game? We do not have a true no.1 wideout, and imo none of our wr get separation on a consistent basis for that type of play to work.

This. We basically lost our number 1 option for the season and number 2 as good as.

 

[Tical21]

Specifics people, specifics. I just read four pages of "Bevell sucks because Bevell sucks". You're seeing press man with 8 in the box. 1 or 0 safeties. What are you going to run to beat it? Okay.......Go!

 

[AROS]

I am not a Bevell fan. I get that I am also not an X's and O's guru so my opinion will hold little weight here but I have not liked the guy from the start, and win or lose my opinion has not changed.

I DO trust my intuition (which I admit also means crap here) and that to me has paid dividends in my life so having said that Bevell is not the best man for the job.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Specifics people, specifics. I just read four pages of "Bevell sucks because Bevell sucks". You're seeing press man with 8 in the box. 1 or 0 safeties. What are you going to run to beat it? Okay.......Go!

I know nothing but I would try shallow crosses, quick slants, a package of screens and wherever possible TE seam routes. Basically this is WHY we traded for Percy and why Sidney missing also is killing us. Both open all the other options up wide.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Bevell sucks it. Your probably not even reading at this point because you you heard that 65 different ways.

He could do nothing with Favre and Adrian Peterson a line and various other pieces...

They should have been world beaters with that cast.

 

[jamsomatic]

"Favre spoke glowingly of Bevell on Wednesday, saying they ``talk each day and text each other every night'' while exchanging ideas on the game plan and the offense.
``There's great dialogue between us,'' Favre said. ``He's the offensive coordinator. It should be that way. And so I don't think anything in that relationship needs to change. Darrell thinks a lot like me. He knows me. We go way back. He's really sharp. Good ideas.''
While making it clear that he and Childress have talked out their differences and are on the same page, Favre was much more effusive in his praise of Bevell and former Packers head coach Mike Holmgren on Wednesday than he was of Childress."

 

[getnasty]

Specifics people, specifics. I just read four pages of "Bevell sucks because Bevell sucks". You're seeing press man with 8 in the box. 1 or 0 safeties. What are you going to run to beat it? Okay.......Go!

Lets start with a WR screen to Golden Tate not any other WR, because GT can make something happen even if blocking is sub par. Swing route or screen to any RB would also be nice. Releasing the tight end down the seam instead of having him block. Slants to any WR. Here are four things to try, I'm not saying they'll work but thers at least worth a TRY. If those don't work, TRY something different. At the end of the day if something fails over and over again, TRY something new.

 

[evergreen]

Some of you are defending RW's play (I know he's not in isolation and our receivers have not been awesome nor has much else) as if you haven't noticed a drop off lately. Remember the first 49 game where he missed a bunch of throws? He's just been a little off lately and against those good teams it means fieldgoals. Look how the half ended. Instead of running out of bounds for a 1st down and stopping the clock he made a bad mental decision and threwit away from Baldwin who couldn't catch it and we have to punt. That was a huge error and it was unforced. He gave up a drive extending run for a bit longer pass, not a TD. The risk wasn't worth it, and just a bad decision that greatly affected the outcome of the game. We have been golden before the half this year. At the end another bad throw ends a game tying drive before it ever gets started.

The other way to look at these games is they weren't really urgent for us since NO except in NY. Now the games are pretty meaningful for us, not lik last year. A little criticism of RW and our breakable D might do us a little good. That last game of the season just got a lot more interesting than we thought it was going to be.

 

[MeanBlueGreen]

The team, and more specifically the offense, needs to convert a third down! A pathetic effort all the way around…impossible to get any kind of offense going if you have an endless series of 3 and outs. Sorry, but thats on the players and, more specifically, RW. He has the ball the most, therefore he is the most to blame.

 

[Tical21]

Specifics people, specifics. I just read four pages of "Bevell sucks because Bevell sucks". You're seeing press man with 8 in the box. 1 or 0 safeties. What are you going to run to beat it? Okay.......Go!

Lets start with a WR screen to Golden Tate not any other WR, because GT can make something happen even if blocking is sub par. Swing route or screen to any RB would also be nice. Releasing the tight end down the seam instead of having him block. Slants to any WR. Here are four things to try, I'm not saying they'll work but thers at least worth a TRY. If those don't work, TRY something different. At the end of the day if something fails over and over again, TRY something new.

Hey, I appreciate you taking a crack at it! Somebody stepping up and putting some thought into it. Please keep in mind that I'm not trying to attack the poster. Love John L. by the way.

You can't run screens to WR's against press man. That's a pick six waiting to happen. I do like the routes to RB idea. That is a very good press man plan. The problem is that we just don't really have the kind of back that is going to punish teams that try to play man with a LB on our backs. Marshawn is a very good option against zone because you can get him the ball in the flat and make a CB try to tackle him. He isn't going to beat somebody to a spot though. The tight end down the seam can be okay if the TE has a huge catch radius or has the speed to beat a LB or Safety. Our TE's are better suited or making plays on crossing routes and outs, which we do try to run a little bit. Luke Willson should be a guy that can beat a LB on those types of routes, and we do try to hit him some.

The slant should be the staple against press man. If you can win on a slant route, you can get easy completions, for potentially huge gains. For an outside receiver, when you see press man, every route is going to automatically be converted to either a slant or a fade. This is where our personnel is becoming a problem. Defenses aren't stupid. They know these rules. So they know you're going to try to complete a slant. So what do they do? They play inside leverage and contest the slant and try to take it away. When the defense tries to anticipate the slant and take it away, you should be able to get separation on a fade, right? Good receivers can really throw a wrench into this. Take your Marshalls, Johnsons, Dez Bryants and those guys for example. Take away the slant, they're going to burn you on a fade. Get scared and get on your heels looking for the fade, and they're going to release hard inside on the slant, and all of a sudden, as a CB, you're in no-mans land. With our receivers, the CB can take away the slant, knowing full well that our guys aren't big or fast, and he can recover if it is a fade. There certainly is also an element of craft here. Great route runners can cause the separation almost through trickery, even if they aren't big or fast.

We're really struggling to get separation with the slant. We did have decent separation a handful of times on the fade against Arizona, but Russell misfired. Our guys weren't open by much, and it would have taken very good passes, but most of the passes he threw downfield just weren't catchable. Because we can't get separation through the slant or over the top on the fade, we're starting to see the tweener passes, which Russell prefers to throw to Kearse. We've seen a handful of back shoulder fades, which happen when the receiver doesn't win the route over the top, so the QB throws it behind the DB, who isn't looking, and is trying to sprint downfield to keep up with the fade. Heck, we've even seen a few front-shoulder fades, which I can't recall ever seeing before. Those are the throws where it looks like Russell just throws the ball into a crowd up the seam. They're really a result of nobody winning a route and being open, so Russell just has to throw it near a receiver and hope the guy can make a play on it.

RB screens may be worth a try. There are a few wrinkles here and there that could get a first down for us. But ultimately, if we can't win slant or fade routes, we're playing with our hands tied behind our backs. I know he is fun to whip, but it really has very little to do with Darrell Bevell. Just about every playcaller in modern NFL history would be calling those same routes.

 

[DavidSeven]

He could do nothing with Favre and Adrian Peterson a line and various other pieces...

Uh, the Vikings had the #2 offense in the NFL in the only season that Favre and Rice were healthy for them. They barely lost the NFC championship to a team that was instructed to break Favre's neck (and nearly did).

 

[SalishHawkFan]

Vanilla route trees and not adjusting to take what the defense is giving you. And that latter seems to be the worst part of it. Sticking to what's not working and refusing to adjust to take what is being given. Have the TE's get involved in the short passing game. Toss it to the RB out of the backfield. Force the defense to play honest and the deep passes will develop.

And our oline continues to suck vs good pass rushers.