How often does the team with the "storyline" lose the SB?

[Hawksalot4277]

First, as far as home growing goes, your team drafted 17 of the 27 significant players that contribute to its success. Denver drafted 18 of the 28. That doesn't include kickers and long snappers, I didn't even look. I know we drafted both our kickers and the long snapper. I also think it should be noted that were it not for injuries, Denver's drafted contributor number would be higher (Walton, Harris, Miller, Moore), while if it weren't for injuries and suspensions, seattle's non-drafted contributor number would be higher (Rice, Harvin, Browner).

That's slanted and you know it. Consider the LOB. All but one of them were third day draft picks save Earl Thomas (who was also drafted....with Denver's pick I might add). The same applies to our LB core. Also consider that while we've dipped a bit into high-end free agency (esp to improve the pass rush), the bulk of Seattle's free agent contributers were undrafted free agents which skews your numbers.

So, yes, this is a team built from the ground up with cheap drafted talent. Denver's by and large isn't.

7-9 without Peyton? I can't admit that. Who is the quarterback instead? Absolutely no way of knowing. I will give you this, the rest of the team constituted exactly as it is, Manning is most likely 3 wins better than anyone else we would have had. But that would have applied to last year too, which would have meant a higher pick this year, etc.

Well, Tebow was your QB the year before and IIRC you went 8-8 or close to it and barely won the AFCW. Tebow got worse not better until he left the NFL....so I think Denver being 7-9 without Peyton is an entirely fair estimate.

Again, though, I don't see what difference it makes. Is Denver supposed to apologize for the manner in which it has achieved success? We've come just as far as you have.

If you look back at my post, I said what Elway did worked. Doesn't sound like I'm asking for anything close to an apology. I do think Denver has about 1-2 years left before going off a cliff. If you can get a ring, I guess it's worth it. Pete and John are approaching it differently and I think I like that.

My numbers aren't skewed. The 10 contributors not drafted by Seattle played somewhere else before coming to Seattle. They may have been undrafted free agents, but they didn't start in Seattle.

And just because Tebow was there before Manning doesn't mean we would have kept him if we didn't get manning. And even if we did, HE didn't go 8-8 the year before, he was 7-4 in the regular season. And he how he played somewhere else has no bearing on how he MIGHT have played another year in Denver.

If you think Pete wouldn't trade a potential cliff two years from now for a ring right now you are crazy. Seattle TRIED to get Manning. So the way Pete is approaching it now is plan B. it obviously seems to be working, but it's still plan B. so don't go all Patriots fan on me and start declaring him a genius because a third round QB he added for depth and development turned out to be much beer than anyone thought, including him.

 

[Hawksalot4277]

No worries. I'm rooting for the Broncos. We can be honest.

I remember that feeling you guys have this year tho from last year. It's kinda like your pre-Super Bowl build up is hijacked by a player on the other team. Everything is about THAT guy. Annoying as hell.

Beyond hijacked... I just have a bad feeling.

For the Seahawks to win this, they can't be 1% or 5% or even 10% better than Denver. They need to be about 31%+ ... at least +3 on Turnovers and +1 on explosive plays.

I expect little impact from our front 7... Offensive Holding on Denver won't get called until it crosses the line into sex crime territory - can pretty much expect that. It's always been that way for Manning, it will just get worse for this game.

I don't know about what percentage Seattle needs to be better than Denver to win, but e rest is doable. You could get 3 turnovers and be +1 in explosive plays.

As for Oline holding, unless you want a ton of PI calls on your physical secondary you probably won't get a lot on Denver's Oline, but that seems balanced. Unless you think a 100% called game would net more O holding than D interference, which is questionable.

I realize how badly you guys got screwed in 2005. I was screaming at my tv for 3 hours. Almost got into a fight with a Steelers fan in my own house. But try not to let that convince you anything untoward is going to happen his time. San Fran didn't get beat by bad calls last year, Baltimore just took it to them early and they couldn't recover fast enough.

Personally, I'm a little nervous BECAUSE of 2005. What if the league feels obligated to make up for all of those horrible calls? Hopefully they just call it like they see it, and everyone throwing a flag has 20/20 unbiased vision.

 

[loafoftatupu]

This team doesn't lose to the storyline or the refs. They just aren't built that way.

They play the kind of football that can't be argued by officiating. Sure, they might get some calls, but they will still play their game. Manning gets all the hype, but Wilson is a silent assassin. Accused of being a struggling young pocket passer, he is a cool customer. He will be facing the softest defense he has seen since Atlanta, no matter how good they are playing. We are talking Angels singing, sunbeams through the clouds relief from the 6 weeks of hell he has seen in top defenses.

Patrick Peterson, Darnell Dockett, Aldon Smith, Bowman, Willis, Brooks, Jordan, Quinn and Chris Long won't be across the line from RW this week. Even Von Miller won't be on the field.

The story line WILL be Russell Wilson. Lynch is going to make his presence felt in a big way, but refs and heartwarming stories won't be enough to stop this team. Not this time.

 

[brettb3]

I'm sick of our fans calling for a conspiracy before the game even starts. In case you haven't noticed, there have been a ton of storylines involving the Hawks this week, more so than the Broncos, whom outside of Peyton are a giant yawn. It's also clear that more of our fans will be in the stadium, so we won't have to worry about "home cooking" calls for the other side. I can't wait until we win this game. Maybe then the "woe is us" attitude of the Seattle sports fan can subside for good.

 

[chris98251]

Hawksalot4277 you are clearly in your own court and won't admit to anything, thats fine as a Bronco fan you can. But if you had Kaepernick instead of Manning your receivers would look pedestrian, if you had Sanchez you would have lost the AFC West.

Your defense would be run to death because of being on the field so much, nobody would respect your running game , Moreno is good but not great and Manning gives him opportunities because of respecting his ability to find holes in zones and get the ball out in 2.3 seconds average.

Manning makes everyone on your offense because he is a surgeon and can exploit match up issues.

He makes your whole team better, your defense can play fast and loose because you tend to play with a lead, your offense functions much better once you have the lead because the opposition starts taking more chances.

By your logic Osweiler should be able to run yur offense just as well as Manning, why would a GM pay someone 20 million a year if he was just a piece of the puzzle and not a difference maker.

Seattle's plan was to draft our core players and use FA to supplement our other needs, has worked pretty well, nobody can put a team on the field using JUST the draft anymore, there is only 7 rounds and your team can't be assembled fast enough given contracts to take advantage of contracts and youth.

As far as a strech on a 3rd round draft pick who became a starter, thats just a back handed troll comment, every GM and expert had Wilson rated high, the caveat was would he make it due to height, Pete and John thought he could, the other didn't, they gambled that the other teams would take him late but had him targetted out of the gate and hedged their bet with bringing in Flynn just in case. We had the money to make that gamble and now have a future QB here for many years, what will Denver do once Manning retires? You can only hope Osweiler is as good as you say or that maybe they get lucky and grab another aged QB and hope he can perform up to his abilities.

Manning was a Rich Gannon Jim Plunkett catch, a great pick up at the right time.

 

[Exittium]

Hawksalot4277 you are clearly in your own court and won't admit to anything, thats fine as a Bronco fan you can. But if you had Kaepernick instead of Manning your receivers would look pedestrian, if you had Sanchez you would have lost the AFC West.

Your defense would be run to death because of being on the field so much, nobody would respect your running game , Moreno is good but not great and Manning gives him opportunities because of respecting his ability to find holes in zones and get the ball out in 2.3 seconds average.

Manning makes everyone on your offense because he is a surgeon and can exploit match up issues.

He makes your whole team better, your defense can play fast and loose because you tend to play with a lead, your offense functions much better once you have the lead because the opposition starts taking more chances.

By your logic Osweiler should be able to run yur offense just as well as Manning, why would a GM pay someone 20 million a year if he was just a piece of the puzzle and not a difference maker.

Seattle's plan was to draft our core players and use FA to supplement our other needs, has worked pretty well, nobody can put a team on the field using JUST the draft anymore, there is only 7 rounds and your team can't be assembled fast enough given contracts to take advantage of contracts and youth.

As far as a strech on a 3rd round draft pick who became a starter, thats just a back handed troll comment, every GM and expert had Wilson rated high, the caveat was would he make it due to height, Pete and John thought he could, the other didn't, they gambled that the other teams would take him late but had him targetted out of the gate and hedged their bet with bringing in Flynn just in case. We had the money to make that gamble and now have a future QB here for many years, what will Denver do once Manning retires? You can only hope Osweiler is as good as you say or that maybe they get lucky and grab another aged QB and hope he can perform up to his abilities.

Manning was a Rich Gannon Jim Plunkett catch, a great pick up at the right time.

/thread

Thats about the best way to sum it up.

 

[Rocket]

(by the way Kaep is forever a bitch in my book)

Yep. Whiny assed bitch.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

What's interesting is nobody is talking about the biggest storyline, Russell Wilson and even more intriguing is you haven't heard a peep out of him or the guy that will win this game for us (Harvin)... interesting.

 

[chris98251]

What's interesting is nobody is talking about the biggest storyline, Russell Wilson and even more intriguing is you haven't heard a peep out of him or the guy that will win this game for us (Harvin)... interesting.

Harvin has not done nothing this year, I can see where he would like to lay low, Wilson is about the game, he performed his responsibility and is back to work.

I prefer it this way, the media wants to cash in on the Manning angle while it's still there, he may not get back if it doesn't work out for him this year.

 

[evergreen]

I think Seattle has the storyline that nobody's talking about. Former AFC Team, now NFC Team.

In the NFCCC, they had to defeat the bully of their NFC division.

Now, in the SB, they have to defeat the bully of their former AFC division.

Broncs are white middle America, the power base of the world.

Seahawks are coastal urban, the underprivileged, plus many of these men are castoffs with inspiring stories that nobody cares to hear but true fans.

To me, this season looks like a movie along the lines of Hoosiers or Miracle.

We got this.

That is a great take. And all 7 of Denver's SBs have come while the Hawks were around. Don''t those two teams have the most SB appearances?

 

[KDshouldBeOurMJ]

:49ersmall: Im not buying into the storyline.
There is NO way ONE player deserves to win TWO championships before a city, our city, our team deserves their first.. Especially after the homer job of the '05 SB.
They can't do what they did last time, beause then we had a much smaller fanbase and far less of a market for the nfl than we do now. They just did a twitter poll on the nfl network yesterday of all the teams and what teamhad the biggest fanbase and we won.
Not to add that not one team has more than one player on the top 10 of jersey sales. Except for the hawks; Russell at #2 behind peyton and ahead of kaeperdoosh, Lynch at #4 and Sherms at #10. He will probably move up that list with recent exposure .
You add all that up, than the NFL would want us to win this. Just like the steelers were huge in '05, and the NFL wanted that win.
Maybe they will want us to win this go-round, maybe to make up for '05,im atleast certain we will not get screwed out of another championship.
We will win this cause were the better team.
All it comes down to is, does denvers offense out do our defense by the same margin our offense out does there defense. Im talking on the the stat sheets and in game .
Not to mention i truly believe our D is better than their offense, andits obvious our offense is better than their defense, which leads me to conclude with Harvin we simply out perform Denver on sunday. We out perform them on our offense, special teams, which leaves the last deciding battle to our D vs their O.
And even if they can out do us with their offensive powerhouse, i dont think its possible for that to happen with enough of a margin to make up for the other two phases of the game.
Add that with the fact we will win the turnover battle and our sheer physicality, we got this 12's.
Know it in your mind and heart with utter confidence and it WILL happen. Haven't you watched or read The Secret? jeeez :49ersmall:

 

[Hawksalot4277]

Saying he makes them look better than they are is crazy. Does that mean Beast Mode makes your line look better than they are? Brady and Peyton have similar skill sets. Brady had poor receivers most of the season, accomplished half of what Peyton did. So either Brady is ha,f as good as Peyton or Denver's receivers are twice as good as New England's. I'm guess it's the latter.

It's not crazy to say that Peyton makes receivers make recievers look better than what they are....and YES Lynch does make our O-Line in run blocking look better than they are. By contrast Wilson's scrambling style is great, but it does make our O-line look worse in pass pro than they really are. As for Brady and Manning, New England had one less win than you, and made it to the AFCCG same as you. That seems to be a bit more than accomplishing "half" of what Peyton did (esp since they did beat you in the regular season).

I'm pretty sure wins and losses are team accomplishments. I was speaking statistically, as in the passing game. Pretty sure you knew that and just chose to ignore it because I was right.

 

[Hawksalot4277]

Saying he makes them look better than they are is crazy. Does that mean Beast Mode makes your line look better than they are? Brady and Peyton have similar skill sets. Brady had poor receivers most of the season, accomplished half of what Peyton did. So either Brady is ha,f as good as Peyton or Denver's receivers are twice as good as New England's. I'm guess it's the latter.

Marshawn absolutely makes our o-line look better. Russell at times does the same. We have some very good players on our o-line. We also have some journeymen and one guy who was playing on the d-line in college just a couple of years ago.

Great players elevate the guys around them. That's not exactly news.

Elevating players does not equal making them look better than they are.

 

[chris98251]

Elevating players does not equal making them look better than they are.

Say what? Are you Ron Jaworski?

 

[HolyCatfish]

I understand what Shady is saying...

Today it got out of hand, with Irvin giving an "inspiration speech" to the Broncos... with Kaepernick giving Manning "advice" on how to exploit us... (by the way Kaep is forever a bitch in my book)

I loved this story! The QB that contiually gets destroyed by us is giving advice to Manning. Colin is the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[Hawksalot4277]

Hawksalot4277 you are clearly in your own court and won't admit to anything, thats fine as a Bronco fan you can. But if you had Kaepernick instead of Manning your receivers would look pedestrian, if you had Sanchez you would have lost the AFC West.

Your defense would be run to death because of being on the field so much, nobody would respect your running game , Moreno is good but not great and Manning gives him opportunities because of respecting his ability to find holes in zones and get the ball out in 2.3 seconds average.

Manning makes everyone on your offense because he is a surgeon and can exploit match up issues.

He makes your whole team better, your defense can play fast and loose because you tend to play with a lead, your offense functions much better once you have the lead because the opposition starts taking more chances.

By your logic Osweiler should be able to run yur offense just as well as Manning, why would a GM pay someone 20 million a year if he was just a piece of the puzzle and not a difference maker.

Seattle's plan was to draft our core players and use FA to supplement our other needs, has worked pretty well, nobody can put a team on the field using JUST the draft anymore, there is only 7 rounds and your team can't be assembled fast enough given contracts to take advantage of contracts and youth.

As far as a strech on a 3rd round draft pick who became a starter, thats just a back handed troll comment, every GM and expert had Wilson rated high, the caveat was would he make it due to height, Pete and John thought he could, the other didn't, they gambled that the other teams would take him late but had him targetted out of the gate and hedged their bet with bringing in Flynn just in case. We had the money to make that gamble and now have a future QB here for many years, what will Denver do once Manning retires? You can only hope Osweiler is as good as you say or that maybe they get lucky and grab another aged QB and hope he can perform up to his abilities.

Manning was a Rich Gannon Jim Plunkett catch, a great pick up at the right time.

What logic did I espouse that would possibly lead anyone to believe I think Manning is just another piece of the puzzle? My contention is that Denver's receiving corps is not average, as was alleged by a Seattle poster. THAT IS ALL.

And what, you're the only team that can draft a quality starter? Why does it have to be Osweiler or an old vet?

 

[Hawksalot4277]

Elevating players does not equal making them look better than they are.

Say what? Are you Ron Jaworski?

Brandon Marshall caught 100 plus balls from Orton and Cutler and over 80, twice, from whoever was throwing him the ball in Miami. DT is easily as good as Marshall.

 

[chris98251]

What logic did I espouse that would possibly lead anyone to believe I think Manning is just another piece of the puzzle? My contention is that Denver's receiving corps is not average, as was alleged by a Seattle poster. THAT IS ALL.

And what, you're the only team that can draft a quality starter? Why does it have to be Osweiler or an old vet?

You have tried to marginalize Mannings contributions in every post contending that he got you where your at.

Brandon Marshall caught 100 plus balls from Orton and Cutler and over 80, twice, from whoever was throwing him the ball in Miami. DT is easily as good as Marshall.

I didn't know Marshall was relevant to this, or Orton, Cutler or anyone else that isn't there anymore, Josh McDaniels was the coach the scheme and offense and everything else was different. How do you compare DT to a player on a different team, system etc. Using that arguement we could run the numbers on our WR's which I know someone has and our receivers rank higher across the board If memory serves.

Your reaching and looking more like an antagonist then anything else.

 

[Hawksalot4277]

What logic did I espouse that would possibly lead anyone to believe I think Manning is just another piece of the puzzle? My contention is that Denver's receiving corps is not average, as was alleged by a Seattle poster. THAT IS ALL.

And what, you're the only team that can draft a quality starter? Why does it have to be Osweiler or an old vet?

You have tried to marginalize Mannings contributions in every post contending that he got you where your at.

Brandon Marshall caught 100 plus balls from Orton and Cutler and over 80, twice, from whoever was throwing him the ball in Miami. DT is easily as good as Marshall.

I didn't know Marshall was relevant to this, or Orton, Cutler or anyone else that isn't there anymore, Josh McDaniels was the coach the scheme and offense and everything else was different. How do you compare DT to a player on a different team, system etc. Using that arguement we could run the numbers on our WR's which I know someone has and our receivers rank higher across the board If memory serves.

Your reaching and looking more like an antagonist then anything else.

No, I haven't tried to marginalize anything Manning has done. Just tried to argue our receivers aren't average. They aren't. Manning never did what he did this year without them. Not saying they had an equal share in the success, but they aren't average.

My point with Marshall is that he never needed someone of Manning's caliber throwing him the ball to put up huge numbers, and DT is in his class, at least. Again, DT isn't average.

How is his agreement antagonization?

 

[chris98251]

Marshall isn't on the Broncos with Manning,

In fact here is the arguement.

Before Manning. 2011

No. ▴ Age Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G YScm RRTD Fmb

88 Demaryius Thomas 24 wr 11 5 1 5 0 5 5.0 0.5 0.1 32 551 17.2 4 47 2.9 50.1 556 4 0

After Manning
2012
88 Demaryius Thomas* 25 WR 16 16 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 94 1434 15.3 10 71 5.9 89.6 1434 10 3

2013
88 Demaryius Thomas* 26 WR 16 16 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 92 1430 15.5 14 78 5.8 89.4 1430 14 1

Per http://www.pro-football-reference.com