How often does the team with the "storyline" lose the SB?

[Polaris]

BTW, it's definitely the Peyton storyline and how this helps with his legacy, which is almost entirely related to his time with Indy (not with Denver). I know Denver fans won't care if they win--and we live in an era of free agency--but when that free agent happens to be perhaps the best QB ever (and that's almost the sole reason you're winning playoff games), it just seems really cheap. Like congratulations, Elway...you were in the right place at the right time. You built an average roster and were in the right spot for Manning, who happened to be available because of a "once in a lifetime" convergence of events.

Average? Clady, Thomas, Thomas, Welker, Vasquez, Franklin, Decker, Moreno, DRC, Wolfe, Vickerson, Knighton, Champ, Miller and Trevathon are average? Not an average player in that bunch.

Peyton makes your receivers look better than they are. I am not calling your receivers average, but you have to judge based on the signal caller. [Brady also makes receivers look better than they are.] Knighton is good but Mebane according to PFF is better. Champ WAS great in his day. WAS Now he's a liability. DRC is good, but honestly Denver's secondary has been suspect all year (admittedly a lot of teams have been trying to play from behind which aggravates it but still......) Denver's defense is frankly pretty average.

 

[Jac]

BTW, it's definitely the Peyton storyline and how this helps with his legacy, which is almost entirely related to his time with Indy (not with Denver). I know Denver fans won't care if they win--and we live in an era of free agency--but when that free agent happens to be perhaps the best QB ever (and that's almost the sole reason you're winning playoff games), it just seems really cheap. Like congratulations, Elway...you were in the right place at the right time. You built an average roster and were in the right spot for Manning, who happened to be available because of a "once in a lifetime" convergence of events.

Average? Clady, Thomas, Thomas, Welker, Vasquez, Franklin, Decker, Moreno, DRC, Wolfe, Vickerson, Knighton, Champ, Miller and Trevathon are average? Not an average player in that bunch.

Peyton makes your receivers look better than they are. I am not calling your receivers average, but you have to judge based on the signal caller. [Brady also makes receivers look better than they are.] Knighton is good but Mebane according to PFF is better. Champ WAS great in his day. WAS Now he's a liability. DRC is good, but honestly Denver's secondary has been suspect all year (admittedly a lot of teams have been trying to play from behind which aggravates it but still......) Denver's defense is frankly pretty average.

Plus, even "average" rosters do tend to have some great players. It is the NFL after all. I think we can win this game if our defense plays to potential. Or we can win this game if Lynch goes Beast Mode. Or we can win this game if Wilson plays like magic. Denver can probably win the game in only one way, which happens to be because a HOF best-QB-ever was available in an exceedingly unusual circumstance. Like I said, Denver fans won't care and neither will history for that matter...

 

[AbsolutNET]

I don't get the Broncos storyline love.

We have a coach who's been to the SB, we signed one of the best QB's ever for 20 million, gave him Wes Welker and let him hand off to our first round pick. What's so redeeming about the Broncos story over the last two years?

 

[Jac]

I don't get the Broncos storyline love.

The reality is that none of the storyline IS about the Broncos. It's about Manning completing his "Indianapolis Colt" legacy. It's hard to find a non-Manning Bronco-related story.

 

[Polaris]

I don't get the Broncos storyline love.

The reality is that none of the storyline IS about the Broncos. It's about Manning completing his "Indianapolis Colt" legacy. It's hard to find a non-Manning Bronco-related story.

This. The narrative is Peyton Manning, Prince of Football vs the Raging Barbarian Hordes of the Northwest.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

.........with Kaepernick giving Manning "advice" on how to exploit us.......

That's like Muggsy Bogues giving Kareem advice on how to be tall.

 

[gulliver]

To the topic of deserving to win, I don't get the many people in my own life (I now live outside of WA) who feel the Broncos "deserve" it.

For the record, I don't believe anyone "deserves" it who hasn't earned it. The title is deserved by the team which works the hardest and the smartest.

But if we're going to go down that road, Peyton has a ring already. Saying that he deserves a second is a bit like saying the guy who just made his first million is more deserving" of his next million than a guy down the street who makes $50k.

Don't know if I'll go down the road of "underprivileged" though as someone else noted--politically, and because the median HH income for Seattle is 29% higher than Denver. We're newly elite, but we're not Tom Joads, and neither are our millionaire players.

 

[Hawksalot4277]

BTW, it's definitely the Peyton storyline and how this helps with his legacy, which is almost entirely related to his time with Indy (not with Denver). I know Denver fans won't care if they win--and we live in an era of free agency--but when that free agent happens to be perhaps the best QB ever (and that's almost the sole reason you're winning playoff games), it just seems really cheap. Like congratulations, Elway...you were in the right place at the right time. You built an average roster and were in the right spot for Manning, who happened to be available because of a "once in a lifetime" convergence of events.

Sooooo, the better play would have been to pass on Manning and keep Tebow? And in case you've forgotten, your team didn't draft Beast Mode, and he's most of your offense and the biggest reason I know a lot of people think Seattle will win Sunday. But sure, all your stars are home grown.

I think you're being a trace sensitive here. Of course you take Peyton if he wants to come to your team. It's not like we didn't try ourselves. That said, you have to take the good with the bad. Sure in Seattle's case Lynch was traded for (although Schneider wanted him when Lynch was drafted and Schneider was still at Green Bay), but Seattle was able to pretty much home grow most of the team and it's identity (which revolves at least as much around the defense as it does around the running game). I also note that Lynch is not in fact "most" of Seattle's offense although he's an essential part.

Can you at least admit that without Peyton, Denver is at best a 7-9 team? Denver at least from an outsiders PoV is a team that was early in a rebuilding phase that got halted with a rush of 30-something short term free agents all designed to support Peyton in an effort to get a ring in the next couple of years. This obviously has worked to this point, but I see no way it's sustainable.

First, as far as home growing goes, your team drafted 17 of the 27 significant players that contribute to its success. Denver drafted 18 of the 28. That doesn't include kickers and long snappers, I didn't even look. I know we drafted both our kickers and the long snapper. I also think it should be noted that were it not for injuries, Denver's drafted contributor number would be higher (Walton, Harris, Miller, Moore), while if it weren't for injuries and suspensions, seattle's non-drafted contributor number would be higher (Rice, Harvin, Browner).

7-9 without Peyton? I can't admit that. Who is the quarterback instead? Absolutely no way of knowing. I will give you this, the rest of the team constituted exactly as it is, Manning is most likely 3 wins better than anyone else we would have had. But that would have applied to last year too, which would have meant a higher pick this year, etc.

Again, though, I don't see what difference it makes. Is Denver supposed to apologize for the manner in which it has achieved success? We've come just as far as you have.

 

[Greenhell]

The thing that bothers me the most is the way the media keeps openly saying Peyton deserves to win this game.
Maybe I'm paranoid, but it is starting to sound kinda' familiar...Like the Jerome Bettis deserved a ring thing!

Exactly, why does he "deserve" a ring? He's already got one. He's going into the HOF no matter what.

Why not us? Why not now?

 

[HawkRiderFan]

I would say that vets like Rich Gannon, Tim Brown, Jerry Rice etc were the old vets who needed a ring in 2002. Didn't work out so well. The 2000 Ravens were the evil presence at the Super Bowl in 2000. Didn't stop them. So the storybook ending has gotten squashed.

 

[Hawksalot4277]

BTW, it's definitely the Peyton storyline and how this helps with his legacy, which is almost entirely related to his time with Indy (not with Denver). I know Denver fans won't care if they win--and we live in an era of free agency--but when that free agent happens to be perhaps the best QB ever (and that's almost the sole reason you're winning playoff games), it just seems really cheap. Like congratulations, Elway...you were in the right place at the right time. You built an average roster and were in the right spot for Manning, who happened to be available because of a "once in a lifetime" convergence of events.

Average? Clady, Thomas, Thomas, Welker, Vasquez, Franklin, Decker, Moreno, DRC, Wolfe, Vickerson, Knighton, Champ, Miller and Trevathon are average? Not an average player in that bunch.

Peyton makes your receivers look better than they are. I am not calling your receivers average, but you have to judge based on the signal caller. [Brady also makes receivers look better than they are.] Knighton is good but Mebane according to PFF is better. Champ WAS great in his day. WAS Now he's a liability. DRC is good, but honestly Denver's secondary has been suspect all year (admittedly a lot of teams have been trying to play from behind which aggravates it but still......) Denver's defense is frankly pretty average.

Saying he makes them look better than they are is crazy. Does that mean Beast Mode makes your line look better than they are? Brady and Peyton have similar skill sets. Brady had poor receivers most of the season, accomplished half of what Peyton did. So either Brady is ha,f as good as Peyton or Denver's receivers are twice as good as New England's. I'm guess it's the latter.

 

[Hawksalot4277]

BTW, it's definitely the Peyton storyline and how this helps with his legacy, which is almost entirely related to his time with Indy (not with Denver). I know Denver fans won't care if they win--and we live in an era of free agency--but when that free agent happens to be perhaps the best QB ever (and that's almost the sole reason you're winning playoff games), it just seems really cheap. Like congratulations, Elway...you were in the right place at the right time. You built an average roster and were in the right spot for Manning, who happened to be available because of a "once in a lifetime" convergence of events.

Average? Clady, Thomas, Thomas, Welker, Vasquez, Franklin, Decker, Moreno, DRC, Wolfe, Vickerson, Knighton, Champ, Miller and Trevathon are average? Not an average player in that bunch.

Peyton makes your receivers look better than they are. I am not calling your receivers average, but you have to judge based on the signal caller. [Brady also makes receivers look better than they are.] Knighton is good but Mebane according to PFF is better. Champ WAS great in his day. WAS Now he's a liability. DRC is good, but honestly Denver's secondary has been suspect all year (admittedly a lot of teams have been trying to play from behind which aggravates it but still......) Denver's defense is frankly pretty average.

Plus, even "average" rosters do tend to have some great players. It is the NFL after all. I think we can win this game if our defense plays to potential. Or we can win this game if Lynch goes Beast Mode. Or we can win this game if Wilson plays like magic. Denver can probably win the game in only one way, which happens to be because a HOF best-QB-ever was available in an exceedingly unusual circumstance. Like I said, Denver fans won't care and neither will history for that matter...

And why should we? Is that the new criteria? Your SB ring is nice, but ours is better because we drafted our best player? Come on.

 

[Polaris]

First, as far as home growing goes, your team drafted 17 of the 27 significant players that contribute to its success. Denver drafted 18 of the 28. That doesn't include kickers and long snappers, I didn't even look. I know we drafted both our kickers and the long snapper. I also think it should be noted that were it not for injuries, Denver's drafted contributor number would be higher (Walton, Harris, Miller, Moore), while if it weren't for injuries and suspensions, seattle's non-drafted contributor number would be higher (Rice, Harvin, Browner).

That's slanted and you know it. Consider the LOB. All but one of them were third day draft picks save Earl Thomas (who was also drafted....with Denver's pick I might add). The same applies to our LB core. Also consider that while we've dipped a bit into high-end free agency (esp to improve the pass rush), the bulk of Seattle's free agent contributers were undrafted free agents which skews your numbers.

So, yes, this is a team built from the ground up with cheap drafted talent. Denver's by and large isn't.

7-9 without Peyton? I can't admit that. Who is the quarterback instead? Absolutely no way of knowing. I will give you this, the rest of the team constituted exactly as it is, Manning is most likely 3 wins better than anyone else we would have had. But that would have applied to last year too, which would have meant a higher pick this year, etc.

Well, Tebow was your QB the year before and IIRC you went 8-8 or close to it and barely won the AFCW. Tebow got worse not better until he left the NFL....so I think Denver being 7-9 without Peyton is an entirely fair estimate.

Again, though, I don't see what difference it makes. Is Denver supposed to apologize for the manner in which it has achieved success? We've come just as far as you have.

If you look back at my post, I said what Elway did worked. Doesn't sound like I'm asking for anything close to an apology. I do think Denver has about 1-2 years left before going off a cliff. If you can get a ring, I guess it's worth it. Pete and John are approaching it differently and I think I like that.

 

[Polaris]

Saying he makes them look better than they are is crazy. Does that mean Beast Mode makes your line look better than they are? Brady and Peyton have similar skill sets. Brady had poor receivers most of the season, accomplished half of what Peyton did. So either Brady is ha,f as good as Peyton or Denver's receivers are twice as good as New England's. I'm guess it's the latter.

It's not crazy to say that Peyton makes receivers make recievers look better than what they are....and YES Lynch does make our O-Line in run blocking look better than they are. By contrast Wilson's scrambling style is great, but it does make our O-line look worse in pass pro than they really are. As for Brady and Manning, New England had one less win than you, and made it to the AFCCG same as you. That seems to be a bit more than accomplishing "half" of what Peyton did (esp since they did beat you in the regular season).

 

[Smelly McUgly]

I can't knock Denver for getting the an elite FA at QB on the market and building for a short-term run at a Lombardi. That's a viable option for building a team too; it just so rarely happens in football. If they win at least one, it was worth it.

 

[Jville]

I don't get the Broncos storyline love.

The reality is that none of the storyline IS about the Broncos. It's about Manning completing his "Indianapolis Colt" legacy. It's hard to find a non-Manning Bronco-related story.

That's descriptive of television commentary in general. Television commentary is optimized to amplify the perception of personalities in either a good light or a bad light as it chooses. It's inept at covering events with an unfiltered delivery. Television manipulates for effect. Its product is always biased to entertain the paying public.

At the end of the day, it's just entertainment. The outcome of the game doesn't define any one or anything. That's just the stuff of myth.

 

[Marvin49]

I understand what Shady is saying...

Today it got out of hand, with Irvin giving an "inspiration speech" to the Broncos... with Kaepernick giving Manning "advice" on how to exploit us... (by the way Kaep is forever a bitch in my book)

...thats a new one. Hadn't seen that reported.

As for the storyline....ugg....I can sympathize. Last year it was all about Ray Lewis and his "last ride". Can't stand that guy. Everytime I see him talk about how god told him to put his hands on Jacoby Jones before the kickoff return I wanna puke. Jacoby did it Ray. You and god had nothing to do with it.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

I understand what Shady is saying...

Today it got out of hand, with Irvin giving an "inspiration speech" to the Broncos... with Kaepernick giving Manning "advice" on how to exploit us... (by the way Kaep is forever a bitch in my book)

...thats a new one. Hadn't seen that reported.

As for the storyline....ugg....I can sympathize. Last year it was all about Ray Lewis and his "last ride". Can't stand that guy. Everytime I see him talk about how god told him to put his hands on Jacoby Jones before the kickoff return I wanna puke. Jacoby did it Ray. You and god had nothing to do with it.

LOL, Ray Lewis is truly the worst.

I was rooting for the Ravens last year, though.

 

[sc85sis]

Saying he makes them look better than they are is crazy. Does that mean Beast Mode makes your line look better than they are? Brady and Peyton have similar skill sets. Brady had poor receivers most of the season, accomplished half of what Peyton did. So either Brady is ha,f as good as Peyton or Denver's receivers are twice as good as New England's. I'm guess it's the latter.

Marshawn absolutely makes our o-line look better. Russell at times does the same. We have some very good players on our o-line. We also have some journeymen and one guy who was playing on the d-line in college just a couple of years ago.

Great players elevate the guys around them. That's not exactly news.

 

[Marvin49]

I understand what Shady is saying...

Today it got out of hand, with Irvin giving an "inspiration speech" to the Broncos... with Kaepernick giving Manning "advice" on how to exploit us... (by the way Kaep is forever a bitch in my book)

...thats a new one. Hadn't seen that reported.

As for the storyline....ugg....I can sympathize. Last year it was all about Ray Lewis and his "last ride". Can't stand that guy. Everytime I see him talk about how god told him to put his hands on Jacoby Jones before the kickoff return I wanna puke. Jacoby did it Ray. You and god had nothing to do with it.

LOL, Ray Lewis is truly the worst.

I was rooting for the Ravens last year, though.

No worries. I'm rooting for the Broncos. We can be honest.

I remember that feeling you guys have this year tho from last year. It's kinda like your pre-Super Bowl build up is hijacked by a player on the other team. Everything is about THAT guy. Annoying as hell.