Did Russell Wilson Save Pete Carroll's Job?

[hawk12]

No... Pete Carroll saved Rusell Wilson career. No other head coach or gm would give him a shot. You know' "he's too short".

 

[Seanhawk]

I don't think he saved his job two years ago, but if there was no Russell (gasp) and we were still searching for THE guy at QB, going into year 5, I think he would be on the hot seat.

 

[Rainger]

Better question is did John Schneider save Pete's career. Answer is yes.
Although Pete and RW approach the game much the same and lead with infectious optimism these two would not have come together without Schneider ' s vision. You could say RW saved Pete and vice versa but Schneider was the man who convinced Pete that Wilson was the one.

WOW you have either just started following the Hawks or you did not pay attention to the process of the hiring of Pete and JS and the responsibilities and authorities of each. Pete has been the Executive Vice President of Football operations since day one. JS was only given his title of Executive Vice President when his contract was renewed.

Unlike other organizations this GM does not have control or power over the Head Coach. Pete has final say over the roster. Within that structure how could JS have been Pete's savior. The "vision" of JS you talk about it is a shared vision. Pete knows what he wants in players and JS goes and finds those kind of players for him. But Pete decides if they make the team or not. Not JS.

This is a team. Neither JS nor RW saved Pete. Remember it was Paul Alan who went out and got Pete not JS. Pete approved of JS because JS shared Pete's "vision" Go back and listen to their initial press conferences when Pete was talking about the hire of JS.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

Probably Pete would still have a job, but I think his time would be growing short to build a contender. Without Wilson I don't think we had a championship caliber team.

True, but this is a fact of life in the NFL. Everything rides on your QB. Most HOF-type coaches had or have a HOF QB.

If we didn't have Wilson, we'd win less, but you would still be able to see the good things happening elsewhere. It'd be like Arians and Fisher. You can tell those guys are doing a good job, even though their QBs are holding them back. Neither of those guys are getting fired anytime soon barring a complete collapse.

Agreed. I think Fisher is a great comparison. But, I do believe Fisher needs to start showing a winning record before too long.

Last year's Rams are a snapshot of what this team could have looked like circa 2012-2015 with Flynn at the helm. Killer defense, sputtering offense, and a quarterback that just doesn't get it done. Remember, as great as our team was last year with Wilson, two thirds of our losses came against division opponents, and we very nearly lost another.

Anyone here think Fisher's job is safe if they continue that trajectory?

 

[SalishHawkFan]

No. Wilson was the championship piece and the guy who would help Carroll cement his legacy as Mr. "Big Balls" and a guy who operated outside conventional wisdom (e.g. the decision to start Wilson over Flynn).

But if you followed along in 2011, you saw the progress the team was making (even if that wasn't reflected in the record). We went from a team of old, soft, slow scrubs to something that was starting to look pretty bad-ass. Everyone who paid attention in 2011 knew Pete was starting to build something special.

In fact, the big criticism that Pete got when he decided to start Wilson in 2012 was that he would be "wasting a championship defense" on a rookie QB. He ended up making those guys look pretty damn silly, but the notion that he was already building a "championship team" was out there before Wilson played a snap.

Yep, I was one of those pretty damn silly looking guys, but what you say is true, we already were looking at a championship caliber team.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Last year's Rams are a snapshot of what this team could have looked like circa 2012-2015 with Flynn at the helm. Killer defense, sputtering offense, and a quarterback that just doesn't get it done. Remember, as great as our team was last year with Wilson, two thirds of our losses came against division opponents, and we very nearly lost another.

Anyone here think Fisher's job is safe if they continue that trajectory?

The same Rams team that would have won their division in 5 or 6 of the 8 divisions in the NFL last year? Just sayin'.

 

[SomersetHawk]

Strange way to think about it. Surely Russell Wilson was just part of the great job Pete's done? A bit like saying did Tom Brady save Bill Belichick's job, when he's considered one of the GOAT, and when it's all said and done Pete will be too.

It's just part of what defines them as greats, they look at things differently, and where conventional wisdom says Tom Brady's too weak or Russell Wilson's too short, they ignore that and see guys with fantastic potential and are good enough to help them realise it.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Russell saved Pete's job the same way Broadway Joe's premature coin toss caused the Broncos to lose the Super Bowl.

 

[rideaducati]

Seattle finished 2011 with a 5-3 record, and 2 of those losses were razor close, while the wins were blowouts. Seattle got better in 2012, so I think they would have probably had a winning season. The way that Tjack was playing in the preseason in 2013, it seriously made me wonder if Seattle might have won 13 games last year with Tjack. He looked like a franchise QB last year, albeit only in low leverage situations.

Do we win a SB without Wilson last year? That's a good debate, I think T-jack the way he was playing would have been capable with the supporting cast, but Wilson is definitely the guy you want in the postseason due to his leadership and clutch ability.

No way Tarvaris wins anywhere near 13 games. Maybe 9...maybe. More likely fewer than that.

 

[rideaducati]

Seattle finished 2011 with a 5-3 record, and 2 of those losses were razor close, while the wins were blowouts. Seattle got better in 2012, so I think they would have probably had a winning season. The way that Tjack was playing in the preseason in 2013, it seriously made me wonder if Seattle might have won 13 games last year with Tjack. He looked like a franchise QB last year, albeit only in low leverage situations.

Do we win a SB without Wilson last year? That's a good debate, I think T-jack the way he was playing would have been capable with the supporting cast, but Wilson is definitely the guy you want in the postseason due to his leadership and clutch ability.

No way Tarvaris wins anywhere near 13 games. Maybe 9...maybe. More likely fewer than that.

 

[Hawks46]

Defense will keep you in the game, but last I checked you need points to win a game. I think it's safe to say RW as QB vs Matt Flynn easily adds an extra TD every game IMO.

Regular Season games won by a TD or less

2013: 5
2012: 4

I don't think there was any game that RW lost that Matt Flynn would have won as starting QB. I think without RW as QB, we lose at least half of those games won by only a TD or less.

So that would be at best 9-7 in 2012, 11-5 or 10-6 in 2013. I forgot the wildcard scores for both years, but I'm going to assume in at least one case we miss playoffs, either way we don't win a SB, definitely not getting HFA in any of the playoff runs and therefore no deep runs either.

Yeah I think it's safe to say RW saved Pete Caroll's Job.

I honestly think Flynn wins that first game at Arizona. He also might not have won us that game vs. NE and probably loses the Chicago game. Flynn isn't nearly as bad as he looked in Oakland. That team is swallowing up coaches and QBs alike.

Did Wilson save Carroll's job ? It's too difficult to say. If they missed out on Wilson, do they grab Cousins, or Foles ? I'm betting they do. How do those guys fare in our system ? I'd say pretty well from the limited amount I've seen from both.

TJack was playing at a high level, but his game is inherently flawed. He doesn't see the left side of the field at all and seems very hesitant to throw it to the middle of the field (as Wilson also shows a bit, really). He's also very slow to run when things break down, which is strange for his athleticism. It's like he wants to prove he's a pocket QB, even to his detriment. I can't remember how many times I screamed for him to just take off and run. I'm not sure we win a SB with him.

So, who do they draft instead of Wilson ? And who to they draft last year ? You know if they missed out on what they saw as a decent QB, they're drafting a guy last year....who is it ? There's too many variables to answer that, to be honest.

My guess is no, as our defense and the FO's personnel moves would've kept us in contention anyways.

 

[DavidSeven]

Flynn isn't nearly as bad as he looked in Oakland. That team is swallowing up coaches and QBs alike.

I disagree. I think Flynn is pretty terrible. He wasn't good enough to hang on as a back up with Oakland or Buffalo. That says a lot. He essentially lost out to Pryor and a UDFA rookie. Oakland preferred to dump him and eat his salary rather than let him hangout in the locker-room. Why would that be?

His attributes are also basically the antithesis of what Seattle wants in a QB -- stiff, weak-armed, utter lack of "tilt the field" leadership. His check-down style and immobility under pressure would've spelled doom for him here. I wouldn't assume any specific victories with Flynn running our offense.

I tried to watch his games in Oakland just to see "what might have been." This guy couldn't hit receivers who were five yards ahead of him and folded immediately at the slightest hint of pressure.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Better question is did John Schneider save Pete's career. Answer is yes.
Although Pete and RW approach the game much the same and lead with infectious optimism these two would not have come together without Schneider ' s vision. You could say RW saved Pete and vice versa but Schneider was the man who convinced Pete that Wilson was the one.

I don't understand how you can conclude that. Maybe Pete saved Schneider. Pete picked Schneider, had he gone to some team like the Raiders I doubt he has the same success. (just to play devils advocate)

 

[The Radish]

Russell saved Pete's job the same way Broadway Joe's premature coin toss caused the Broncos to lose the Super Bowl.

Jesus Christ don't let the Donkey fans see that. They're running out of excuses.

 

[fenderbender123]

Doesn't every good player save their coaches job?

 

[hawk45]

Feel like Pete saved Pete's job.

Pete wasn't close to the hot seat, he's a defensive savant and we had a solid running game. Pete had the nads to start Russell despite that being a high-risk move he didn't need to make for another year, could've let the paid FA Flynn struggle first, but he went with his gut and started him. Pete is in another class from most NFL HCs with respect to disregarding everything except what the competition shows him and making decisions accordingly.

Pete's up there with the Walsh's of the world who have a system so advanced that it sends ripples through the NFL and creates a bubble to be exploited by his team for years.

Without Russ Pete would be a Tony Dungy who builds epic defenses but needs a Peyton Manning to haul the offensive load. Pete has just a dash of offensive smarts which makes him...a bad, bad man.

 

[pmedic920]

Finding and playing RW is only a part of what PC has done and will do.
That will add to his body of work, as we look back, at some point in time.
My opinion is no RW didn't save PC's job.
I don't think it was on the line.

 

[Cad]

Don't forget that the sluggish start to the 2011 season can be attributed to the player lockout. There wasn't the regular offseason of OTAs and minicamps, and it showed early on. You could argue we could have finished with a better record if the first half of that season wasn't so hamstrung.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

The answer is no. Here's why:

1) Barring the extreme, PC would have the lee-way to execute a four year plan and while the result of the plan was a SB win, and while the hope for the plan was no less than a SB win, I highly doubt this was the exact expectation for the plan. The expectation seems more likely to lie on the less ambitious end of the spectrum and at least be, say, four years to build a young team that makes the it past the first round of the playoffs more often than not.

2) Flynn was brought in to, at the very least, compete with TJack for the starting spot. It's not a great pick of QBs (or good or any other positive adjective) but we weren't going to do any worse than starting the same non-prolific but tough, ball-securing QB from the year before who managed 7 wins and 9 nail-biting losses in TJack.

3) If we don't draft RW, we're beyond likely to have drafted, signed, or traded for another QB (or QBs) instead. These options range from promising players still on the board in the 2012 draft when we selected RW, like Foles and Cousins, to the not-so-promising guys from 2013 in Geno Smith and EJ Manuel. Even Palmer may have had a small chance to be our QB for a season or two in the absence of RW.

Put it all together and it's simple: Due to the amount of initial faith put into PC's plan by PA, it would seem that in order for PC to lose his job, it would have to happen this off-season at the absolute soonest. In order for that happen, he would need to miss out on RW, miss out on every other QB capable of satisfying whatever PA's minimum expectation was for his four year plan, and as a nail in his coffin prompting his immediate ejection from the organization, he must have something occur to demonstrate that what he did successfully build during his four years won't last, like having Unger, Lynch and key members of the defense electing to not re-sign with us.

If this perfect, Seahawk-woe-inducing storm did unfold, and we're stuck watching a horrific offense lead by Geno Smith and Robert Turbin while the LOB publicly plans their escape, we'd still be hard-pressed to ignore the simpler explanation. This would just have been PC being an unsuccessful head coach and suffering what so commonly happens to unsuccessful head coaches more-so than RW not saving his job.

No, Russel Wilson did not save Pete Carroll's job, but he has made it A LOOOOOOT easier.

 

[mrt144]

A lot of you are very weird in how you analyze the situation. How can Pete Carroll be accountable but not even mostly responsible for anything?