Depth

[Year of The Hawk]

I feel one of our biggest strengths this year will be depth. I feel we have much more now than we did in the past. This will help when injury strikes but also keeping guys fresh throughout the game as season. It seems like we have lacked this the past few years.

 

[Appyhawk]

Good point, nice topic, good post. Checking our prospecting roster on paper I was thinking along the same lines.

 

[onanygivensunday]

Youth on defense!! This is a young man's game except for certain positions on the offense.

Last two drafts, we got young on defense and it will start to show this year.

I think that a LOT of you will be surprised what this team brings on defense... and the additions of Jaxon, Zach and Kenny McIntosh will vault the offense into the top 10 easily.

 

[sutz]

Good point. I could legitimately see all 10 of these picks making the cut. While there may be a couple that start immediately, I think all of them would provide solid depth players throughout the season.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

That's what good drafts accomplish, depth.

If you can get a couple starters, and maybe one star out of each draft.........then fill in the rest for depth and development?

That's the recipe for long term success in the NFL. As opposed to what bad drafts do to a roster, which is create desperation front office moves. Like Idk, trading away two 1st rounders for a box safety because you drafted so terribly for 3-4 years in a row.

 

[IndyHawk]

I'm not sure if this is the case on DL/LB but all else looks solid
The next draft could be all on the D front and I would not be
unhappy.

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

I agree with Indy. LB and DT are the 2 positions I'd worry about the most, but otherwise yes there will be good depth on the roster this year. OT is probably 3rd on the list after LB/DT.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Wasn't a deep and talented roster one of the traits of our SB teams? Our preseason both years were all wins due to our great depth, too.

When injuries hit and "next man up" does not automatically imply a drop-off in ability, good things can still happen.

 

[nanomoz]

RE: linebackers. They only play two of them, really, if you don't count the edges (where there is incredible depth). Bobby, Bush, a returning Brooks, and some combo of Rhattigan and/or Vi Jones will be an upgrade in the short term.

RE: d-line: this is more tenuous. But I think it's got a more versatile group of players. They didn't have a whole lot of depth here last year, either.

• Dre Jones is a massive upgrade over Q-Jeff.
• Jarran Reed can play three spots, and I'd argue he's a pretty big upgrade over last season's Poona.
• It looks like Miles Adams is going to get a shot to be a 5/3-tech, replacing Shelby Harris. This is probably a downgrade.
• But Mike Morris will probably matter. He fills in at those spots, too. And I'm supremely confident he'll be better than LJ Collier.

Cameron Young won't be better than big Al, but he's capable of playing more snaps. And he should improve quickly. Al only played 40-something percent last year. I don't know Mone's situation with injury, but it makes me nervous. However, Jarran can absolutely fill in at nose. That's where he started. And he played all over last year for Green Bay, and he was pretty good.

There's also a couple of UDFAs here that could matter in Robert Cooper and Jonah Tavai.

 

[onanygivensunday]

I agree with Indy. LB and DT are the 2 positions I'd worry about the most, but otherwise yes there will be good depth on the roster this year.

I'm less concerned about the Dline than most here.

If we go back and look at our Dline in 2013/14, the talent and depth were our Edge DEs... Avril, Clemens, Irvin, Bennet, and Mayowa... and not the DTs.

Our DTs were solid but not game-changers... Bryant, Mebane, McDonald, McDaniel, and Jordan Hill. Admittedly, Mebane and Red Bryant were above average run-stuffers, but McDonald and McDaniel were journeymen space-eaters and Jordan Hill was just a youngster.

Our current Edge DEs are Nwosu, Mafe, Taylor and newcomer Hall... not that unlike in 2013/14. We don't need Pro Bowlers and/or All Pros at DT.

We'll be alright imo.

 

[renofox]

Our current Edge DEs are Nwosu, Mafe, Taylor and newcomer Hall... not that unlike in 2013/14. We don't need Pro Bowlers and/or All Pros at DT.

Do you think any one of those players would start over any one of Chris Clemons, Michael Bennet, Cliff Avril, or Red Bryant (who was listed as DE and played significant snaps there)?

I think the best of our current pass rushers are several steps below the least of our 2013 crew.

 

[onanygivensunday]

Do you think any one of those players would start over any one of Chris Clemons, Michael Bennet, Cliff Avril, or Red Bryant (who was listed as DE and played significant snaps there)?

I think the best of our current pass rushers are several steps below the least of our 2013 crew.

Not me. I think that you are over-valuing our former players.

In 2013, Michael Bennet led the team in sacks with 8.5 (29th in the league). Avril was second with 8.0 (#35 in the league). Next was McDonald with 5.5 (#62 in the league). Chris Clemons had 4.5.

Need I go on?

 

[onanygivensunday]

BTW, Nwuso and Taylor tied for #20 in the league last year with 9.5 sacks each, Q. Jefferson had 5.5 and Bruce Irvin had 3.5... for a total of 28.0 from these four.

The 2013 group of four totaled 26.5 sacks... essentially the same amount.

 

[bileever]

Not me. I think that you are over-valuing our former players.

In 2013, Michael Bennet led the team in sacks with 8.5 (29th in the league). Avril was second with 8.0 (#35 in the league). Next was McDonald with 5.5 (#62 in the league). Chris Clemons had 4.5.

Need I go on?

This is an interesting debate. My initial reaction was, no way is the 2023 Seahawks' pass rush comparable to Avril and Bennett! The 2013 defense was historically great. But on closer look, you're right that the 2013 team, as good as it was, was not a sacking machine. The 2013 team was 9th in sacks with 44, while the 2022 team, a team that we can all agree was mediocre or worse, was 9th with 45 sacks.

This probably shows the inadequacy of sacks as a statistic to tell a significant story. Bennett and Avril were two pro-bowl players who were among the best in Seahawks' history. In his best year, Bennett had 10 sacks, 18 TFLs. and 30 QB hits. Avril had 11.5 sacks, 8 TFLs and 26 QB hits.

But Uchenna Nwosu had a great season last year, with 9.5 sacks, 12 TFLs, and 26 QB hits. Granted, he had one extra game to compile those stats, but still a pretty good year. But I don't think that anyone else on the Seahawks had comparable production last year. Yes, Darrell Taylor had 9.5 sacks, but his pressure rate wasn't that great. If Derick Hall can come in and be the player that we expect him to be, that might be a pretty good combo, that might rival the Bennett/Avril tandem. And maybe Boye Mafe can take a big step forward this year. Remember, Frank Clark didn't shine in his first year, either. (Btw, Clark, Avril and Bennett played together for a couple of years, and in 2016, the three of them probably would have each had double digit sacks if Bennett hadn't gotten hurt.)

 

[onanygivensunday]

This is an interesting debate. My initial reaction was, no way is the 2023 Seahawks' pass rush comparable to Avril and Bennett! The 2013 defense was historically great. But on closer look, you're right that the 2013 team, as good as it was, was not a sacking machine. The 2013 team was 9th in sacks with 44, while the 2022 team, a team that we can all agree was mediocre or worse, was 9th with 45 sacks.

This probably shows the inadequacy of sacks as a statistic to tell a significant story. Bennett and Avril were two pro-bowl players who were among the best in Seahawks' history. In his best year, Bennett had 10 sacks, 18 TFLs. and 30 QB hits. Avril had 11.5 sacks, 8 TFLs and 26 QB hits.

But Uchenna Nwosu had a great season last year, with 9.5 sacks, 12 TFLs, and 26 QB hits. Granted, he had one extra game to compile those stats, but still a pretty good year. But I don't think that anyone else on the Seahawks had comparable production last year. Yes, Darrell Taylor had 9.5 sacks, but his pressure rate wasn't that great. If Derick Hall can come in and be the player that we expect him to be, that might be a pretty good combo, that might rival the Bennett/Avril tandem. And maybe Boye Mafe can take a big step forward this year. Remember, Frank Clark didn't shine in his first year, either. (Btw, Clark, Avril and Bennett played together for a couple of years, and in 2016, the three of them probably would have each had double digit sacks if Bennett hadn't gotten hurt.)

So, you agree that our Dline is not in dire straits? It sounds like it.

I think that we're concerned, rather than worried. Agreed?

 

[jammerhawk]

With 89 prospects about to fight it out with each other and their 90th prospect the competition for positions on this team is going to be brutal.

The team that shows up after that competitive fight will be one with extreme high character and one that is wickedly tough.

In the end it’s the genuine depth that Pn’J have slowly brought back together that will allow this year’s team to be a team that is a playoff team that could go further than many expect.

If we look at the DC and the various positional groups I agree the depth is very much now here. We only need to look at the OLB/DE group to see that there is going to be a ruthless fight for roster spots. Then there are the CBs, RBs, Safeties. The WRs, OLine, and TEs, aren’t that shabby either. Fewer questions exist this season about positional groups than has been the case for a good while. Sure there are some question that remain, yet somehow I will be optimistic that the perceived problems are not as severe as some believe.

I am looking forward to a good season for my team.

 

[bileever]

So, you agree that our Dline is not in dire straits? It sounds like it.

I think that we're concerned, rather than worried. Agreed?

Definitely concerned. I guess I'm just saying that the pass rush could be okay with Nwosu, Dre'mont Jones, Darell Taylor and Derick Hall. It's the interior line that's the big question. Who exactly is going to play there? Jarran Reed and Cameron Young? Who else? I don't think we even have enough bodies right now.

 

[onanygivensunday]

Definitely concerned. I guess I'm just saying that the pass rush could be okay with Nwosu, Dre'mont Jones, Darell Taylor and Derick Hall. It's the interior line that's the big question. Who exactly is going to play there? Jarran Reed and Cameron Young? Who else? I don't think we even have enough bodies right now.

Don't forget about Mike Morris (6'5", 290 lb.) ... and we have a couple of UDFAs competing for roster spots as DTs. It's thin but the cupboard is not entirely bare.

 

[Frozenropers]

I'm less concerned about the Dline than most here.

If we go back and look at our Dline in 2013/14, the talent and depth were our Edge DEs... Avril, Clemens, Irvin, Bennet, and Mayowa... and not the DTs.

Our DTs were solid but not game-changers... Bryant, Mebane, McDonald, McDaniel, and Jordan Hill. Admittedly, Mebane and Red Bryant were above average run-stuffers, but McDonald and McDaniel were journeymen space-eaters and Jordan Hill was just a youngster.

Our current Edge DEs are Nwosu, Mafe, Taylor and newcomer Hall... not that unlike in 2013/14. We don't need Pro Bowlers and/or All Pros at DT.

We'll be alright imo.

That really depends on whether or not they are playing a 3-4 front or a 4-3 Front. If we go 3-4 we have plenty of depth at OLBer (Nwosu, Taylor, Mafe, Robinson, Smith, Hall). Our issue will be inside on the D-Line where we are paper thin and inexperienced, Reed and Jones at starting DE’s, Young at NT, Adams, Morris, at DE depth and Mone NT recovering from ACL surgery and might not play.

If we go 4-3 our DT depth is better because we only need to play 2 at a time…….Reed and Jones starting, Young, Adams, Morris, for depth. Our 3-4 OLBers become our DEs in the 4-3…and we have good depth there.
Our front line personnel are currently better suited to a 4-3 front. Offseason is still in progress though so things can change.

 

[bileever]

Don't forget about Mike Morris (6'5", 290 lb.) ... and we have a couple of UDFAs competing for roster spots as DTs. It's thin but the cupboard is not entirely bare.

Yes, you're right. I just posted in the other thread, "why 23 will be better than 22: front 7", that in a 4-3 scheme, we have plenty of people who could play DT: Reed, Jones, Morris, Young, and Adams.