Bevell was better, still it pains me

[Marlin Man]

God, please hear my prayer---- BEVELL to HC- ANYWHERE---- yeah , he deserves it!!!!!!
I figure we have abetter chance at him getting a HC gig vs Pete firing him (as I would love to see)

 

[hawk45]

I just can't shake the feeling that there are OCs out there who wouldn't take 8 weeks of OL-induced quarterback beatings to work in more of the short/intermediate stuff. It feels to me like we saw that for one week and then as soon as we got Breno/Okung back (and beat the snot out of the Saints) we were right back to run and throw long.

Causing the offense to struggle again for the 4 or 5 games it took to realize that:

1) The OL still sucks when healthy, and is just not good enough (and may never be good enough) to live off the deep routes. Because in games where the run game is being stifled, where we could live off the land right behind the LBs, we don't, and Russell gets killed.

2) The Saints D was overrated and so we shouldn't have gone back to the stupid long ball all the time based on that one game.

It just seems to me that some OCs might recognize some of this within a single half even and adjust. We have seen small signs that Bevell is beginning to adjust during a game, but as Roland says, if he gets a game or two of success under his belt he goes right back to run and throw long.

And I don't buy that this is on Russell because I'm not talking about hitting an outlet receiver short or audibling into a pass vs a run. I'm talking designed slants and hooks and curls and whatever that are shorter and that use timing and route design to get guys open quickly.

That is my major complaint against Bevell. Play action is only one way to slow pressure down but our line is so bad that guys still bust through even with PA and as Mojo has pointed out we use PA in stupid situations where it doesn't do anything. Recognize that you have a crap o line and do something different. Throwing passes right behind the LBs is a very good way to capitalize on the running game but I don't think anyone here would say we see nearly enough (or hardly any) of those passes. If Bevell was just slightly more flexible I think between he and Russell we have enough to compensate for a crappy (but healthy) line.

I'm sure Pete and Cable both support a heavy dose of PA, but I'm equally sure Pete would be receptive to a game plan or adjustments that make sense. If Russell is being killed dead, there isn't much to lose. Cable...boy...I think when Lynch moves on we find that Cable is no magician but that's another story.

 

[loafoftatupu]

I am not at all concerned about the offense or how it was called in the Rams game. The Hawks are doing what they have to do. I expect to see lower passing numbers when Lynch is busting 6+ yard runs against defenses that are playing the run tough.

The passing numbers suffer from penalties, I don't have a problem with the judgment ones that are close, but the procedure ones need to go. The passing numbers would look very good if not for the penalties.

 

[plyka]

I just can't shake the feeling that there are OCs out there who wouldn't take 8 weeks of OL-induced quarterback beatings to work in more of the short/intermediate stuff. It feels to me like we saw that for one week and then as soon as we got Breno/Okung back (and beat the snot out of the Saints) we were right back to run and throw long.

Causing the offense to struggle again for the 4 or 5 games it took to realize that:

1) The OL still sucks when healthy, and is just not good enough (and may never be good enough) to live off the deep routes. Because in games where the run game is being stifled, where we could live off the land right behind the LBs, we don't, and Russell gets killed.

2) The Saints D was overrated and so we shouldn't have gone back to the stupid long ball all the time based on that one game.

It just seems to me that some OCs might recognize some of this within a single half even and adjust. We have seen small signs that Bevell is beginning to adjust during a game, but as Roland says, if he gets a game or two of success under his belt he goes right back to run and throw long.

And I don't buy that this is on Russell because I'm not talking about hitting an outlet receiver short or audibling into a pass vs a run. I'm talking designed slants and hooks and curls and whatever that are shorter and that use timing and route design to get guys open quickly.

That is my major complaint against Bevell. Play action is only one way to slow pressure down but our line is so bad that guys still bust through even with PA and as Mojo has pointed out we use PA in stupid situations where it doesn't do anything. Recognize that you have a crap o line and do something different. Throwing passes right behind the LBs is a very good way to capitalize on the running game but I don't think anyone here would say we see nearly enough (or hardly any) of those passes. If Bevell was just slightly more flexible I think between he and Russell we have enough to compensate for a crappy (but healthy) line.

I'm sure Pete and Cable both support a heavy dose of PA, but I'm equally sure Pete would be receptive to a game plan or adjustments that make sense. If Russell is being killed dead, there isn't much to lose. Cable...boy...I think when Lynch moves on we find that Cable is no magician but that's another story.

I'm not asking for the Hawks to forget about the long ball, or the concentrate on short stuff and intermediate stuff. I'm just asking for more complexity and more diversity and thus surprise. Why are they throwing it 50 yards on 3rd and 3?

I think the Hawks need an overwhelming personality as the OC. Pete is a defensive minded coach. His goal is to win with defense and special teams. When you have a yes man at OC, I don't think Pete will trust the guy enough to loosen the reigns a bit. This may be why the Hawks are soooo risk averse. This also causes the Hawks to fall behind in games at the beginning, and then storm back later --because later they take more risks!

Regarding what Bevell can control, you need to diversify your plays and surprise the defense. When we get into the short and goal type scenarios, if it's a pass it's going to be 100% play action and roll. The defense knows this, and so they send an end to play that roll and forget about the PA.

Worse of all is his 3rd downs. They NEVER RUN THE BALL. This was fixed I though in the Rams game when they even ran it on 3rd and 8. But now he has fallen back into the tendency. It's not about running it on 3rd and 8 --but if it is 3rd and 3 or less, you should mix a run in there somewhere. Worst of all, do not do an empty set where the defense knows what's coming.

Regarding Russell, he needs to trust his pocket more and he needs to get the ball out faster. He is holding it way too long. This may be due to the risk averse ideology. Not taking risks with the ball, etc. But sometimes you're going to have to throw your guys open.

 

[jamsomatic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNcBFZ26lcI

 

[Tokadub]

To me this issue is becoming increasingly complicated the more games I analyze.

Part of me thinks that we are still trying to find our offensive identity and we were confident we could get home field advantage late in the season no matter what offense we ran which is why we had some very unusual games like San Fransisco and Arizona.

Now that it sounds like we may have Harvin for the the playoffs, it almost seems like there could be some hidden shenanigans going on in our clubhouse. Kind of like an all or nothing approach. As if they think this is THE YEAR WE HAVE TO WIN. Our defense is so good we may be able to hold back on our play calling and instead of calling it to outright win games, perhaps call to prepare for the playoffs, figure it all out, experiment...

However if you believe that then you are giving a ton of credit to our coaches and their risky all in deception for other teams scouting them. Even more likely is that we truly struggle on offense, and really don't know which plays to call.

I feel the root of our problem may be that our offensive line is just not capable to run an elite offense. No matter how good our other players are perhaps we will always have a little bit of unpredictability with these guys at our front.

I hate to say (I'm 100% diehard Russell Wilson fan), but recently Russell has been a bit off in his accuracy. He used to be one of the most spot on accurate guys I've ever seen. It seems so strange to me to see him being off target multiple times a game. I really hope he didn't take too many hits this year, and it seems to me the offense has been trying to get him to stay in the pocket a lot more than last year. We may be self destructing our QB this season, sad but true. We cannot sustain this kind of punishment with no relief every single week. Perhaps that's why he's seeing a sports psychologist. No offense to our team but it must be a nightmare playing behind our offensive line. If we allow this to continue we might shorten his career significantly, and kill his mental abilities and confidence with all these sacks and hopeless scrambles. Russell seems to be on the decline to me lately but hopefully it's just some kind of funk. I'd hate to think he's already peaked. I think you could blame our offensive play calling if anything I just said is even remotely true. We aren't protecting him at all with the offensive line or our play calling, and he's taking a beating both physically and psychologically.

I really want to like Bevell, he's shown the ability to do some great plays. I think some of our stuff against the Rams was awesome. But he is not consistent and maybe he really is being harnessed in by Carroll so he can't really run the offense, kinda just going through the motions.

But regardless of any of our analysis no matter how factual it may be, we need to see what happens in the playoffs before we can make a true judgement of who needs to be fired, etc. I think with our talent though and the relative lack of talent of the opposition compared to us this year, if we don't win Super Bowl it's a fail.

 

[chiltech500]

I'm sure Pete is the problem as well.

Also, I don't remember Pete's USC teams playing like this.

Pete needs an offensive mind at OC, someone who earns his respect. I think Pete is great HC and a great defensive mind. But offensively he is not up to par. He needs someone to take control away from him on the offensive side of the ball.

1) The OL still sucks when healthy, and is just not good enough

I feel the root of our problem may be that our offensive line is just not capable to run an elite offense.

Do we at least have a consensus on this ???

Does anyone remember if Petes USC teams played like this?

If so, I believe as this gentleman says we need a strong personality at OC