Back to back 10am games

[NINEster]

gaucho: I am hopeful that having a team in LA will facilitate change as I am quite sure the league would like to see that team competitive so as to build a good hardcore fanbase. Feel free to mention that it would help with that goal.

It is absolutely not necessary to play any game at 10:00 AM Pacific time. Considering that the eastern time zone teams are scheduled now so they don't have to go west more than twice a season, in the interest of competitive balance and parity, a change to no western time zone teams starting at 10 AM Pacific time is long overdue.

Enough with the conspiracy against west coast teams.

If the entire league was flipped with the west coast having 13 teams in PST instead of 3 (now 4), you would see the exact opposite in terms of scheduling.

There's also the plethora of teams playing in Central instead of Mountain time zone......flip that too and everything would be different.

 

[captSE]

Total bullcrap. Only two 10am games and we get them both..BS

And the Panthers would still have played the early game today if we hadn't made the playoffs.

Only thing to that is it wouldn't matter because their not a west coast team

My point is, it is not a conspiracy against the Seahawks. The Panthers would have been playing at that time regardless.

What you're missing is the panthers are adjusted to their natural time of 1 pm east coast time; it's a body clock thing.
However, the Hawks are, in effect, playing at 10am because that is what their body clock is on. Kind of like the effects of jet-lag. This is not about the Panthers.
If the Hawks were allowed to adjust to the east coast time zone, then you are right. But ......you are wrong..

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

gaucho: I am hopeful that having a team in LA will facilitate change as I am quite sure the league would like to see that team competitive so as to build a good hardcore fanbase. Feel free to mention that it would help with that goal.

It is absolutely not necessary to play any game at 10:00 AM Pacific time. Considering that the eastern time zone teams are scheduled now so they don't have to go west more than twice a season, in the interest of competitive balance and parity, a change to no western time zone teams starting at 10 AM Pacific time is long overdue.

Enough with the conspiracy against west coast teams.

If the entire league was flipped with the west coast having 13 teams in PST instead of 3 (now 4), you would see the exact opposite in terms of scheduling.

There's also the plethora of teams playing in Central instead of Mountain time zone......flip that too and everything would be different.

True but it just doesn't have to be this way and therefore IMO it is a conspiracy, All playoff games could be 1:30 and 5:15 starts or if you want to compromise, noon and 3:30 like conference championship Sunday at the very least. With only the few pacific and mountain teams as you mentioned, Sunday games involving those FEW teams could start at 4:00 eastern.

 

[AROS]

I loves me a good conspiracy but this 10am conspiracy falls short to me. It's quite simple. Win your division and that takes care of that. Win a ton of games and get HFA, then that really takes care of that.

The NFL isn't out to get us people. Take care of business, and the business of the NFL will take care of you.

 

[AgentDib]

In case somebody hasn't seen the stat that sums up the 2015 Seahawks postseason yet: the Seahawks have played four 10 am playoffs game under Pete and have yet to score a single point in the first half of ANY of them.

The schedule is complicated by many competing incentives. Having better public knowledge about the disadvantage of 10 am starts can only help west coast teams as more emphasis is put on time zone changes. Pretending this isn't a factor doesn't make it go away.

The Seahawks obviously need to do better themselves as well. There aren't many easy answers but I'm sure they'll be kicking thoughts around the entire off season and I wouldn't be surprised to see some changes next year.

I loves me a good conspiracy but this 10am conspiracy falls short to me. It's quite simple. Win your division and that takes care of that.

Here's the counter argument: many NFL teams make it to the Super Bowl via road games. In fact, when the Seahawks/Broncos met in 2013 it was the first time two #1 seeds had faced each other in quite a while.

Go down the list of Superbowl Champions in the 2000's and how many of them would still be there if their road path included even a minor additional amount of adversity? The 2007 Giants played a 1pm Sunday game in Tampa Bay followed by a 4pm Sunday close game in Dallas and then a 6pm Sunday OT victory in Green Bay. Do you honestly think they win the Superbowl that year if they were instead playing three hours to the east each week at 10 am? The statistics say probably not and that is the issue here.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

In case somebody hasn't seen the stat that sums up the 2015 Seahawks postseason yet: the Seahawks have played four 10 am playoffs game under Pete and have yet to score a single point in the first half of ANY of them.

The schedule is complicated by many competing incentives. Having better public knowledge about the disadvantage of 10 am starts can only help west coast teams as more emphasis is put on time zone changes. Pretending this isn't a factor doesn't make it go away.

The Seahawks obviously need to do better themselves as well. There aren't many easy answers but I'm sure they'll be kicking thoughts around the entire off season and I wouldn't be surprised to see some changes next year.

I loves me a good conspiracy but this 10am conspiracy falls short to me. It's quite simple. Win your division and that takes care of that.

Here's the counter argument: many NFL teams make it to the Super Bowl via road games. In fact, when the Seahawks/Broncos met in 2013 it was the first time two #1 seeds had faced each other in quite a while.

Go down the list of Superbowl Champions in the 2000's and how many of them would still be there if their road path included even a minor additional amount of adversity? The 2007 Giants played a 1pm Sunday game in Tampa Bay followed by a 4pm Sunday close game in Dallas and then a 6pm Sunday OT victory in Green Bay. Do you honestly think they win the Superbowl that year if they were instead playing three hours to the east each week at 10 am? The statistics say probably not and that is the issue here.

Thank you

 

[seabowl]

In case somebody hasn't seen the stat that sums up the 2015 Seahawks postseason yet: the Seahawks have played four 10 am playoffs game under Pete and have yet to score a single point in the first half of ANY of them.

this is as telling a stat of any. 4 playoff games at 10am and ZERO points in the 1st half. The issue is not so much 10am it's they are waking up 5am PST to play the game. That's rough after flying across country a day before.

 

[dopeboy206]

Another thing I wanna know is since its a 10am game why the hell did the team fly out there on Friday? They should fly out there Wednesday or hell fly there right after Minnesota to get adjusted to the time.

 

[rideaducati]

Another thing I wanna know is since its a 10am game why the hell did the team fly out there on Friday? They should fly out there Wednesday or hell fly there right after Minnesota to get adjusted to the time.

Because people are creatures of habit. Playoff time is not a good time to be changing habits.

The only team in the playoffs on Pacific time gets both morning games...makes sense to no one.

 

[dopeboy206]

Another thing I wanna know is since its a 10am game why the hell did the team fly out there on Friday? They should fly out there Wednesday or hell fly there right after Minnesota to get adjusted to the time.

Because people are creatures of habit. Playoff time is not a good time to be changing habits.

The only team in the playoffs on Pacific time gets both morning games...makes sense to no one.

If that's the case we should of flown to Carolina right after Minnesota and stuck with that habit instead of returning home and flying to Carolina on Friday.

 

[Largent80]

I hate the whining over this but at the same time, there needs to be a change in rules for west coast teams. Not sure why Mr. Allen has not voiced up on this.

 

[vonstout]

I heard on the radio that Arizona has gone to the east coast for the whole week before. I'm betting they do it again.

I also heard on the radio that NO WEST COAST TEAM has ever won the super bowl while playing a 10 am game. That is unbelievable. Even when the Niners were a dynasty, they never did it. They played the Bears in Chicago in one of their SB winning years, but it was a late afternoon game (4:30 EST). It doesn't take a lot of research to show that not only giving us one 10am game but 2 this year completely screwed us.

 

[rcaido]

It's called home field advantage for a reason, enough with the 10:00am game thing. In fact i'm pretty sure our win percentage is better in 10:00am games then non 10:00am games this year.

I'm pretty sure it's not, but I'm pretty sure that's just anecdotal. There is zero doubt that it is a disadvantage, and it turns out that it's quite significant. You guys got screwed by the playoff scheduling. As I mentioned in another thread, west coast teams get screwed in the regular season by having to play at 10 am.

Some stats:

From '01 to '14, home teams win 57.5% of their games. This number is remarkably consistent, within 1% of that figure 9 of the 14 years.

Against West coast teams in non 10am games, home teams wins 55.8% of games. Against central teams home team wins 57.2% against east coast teams home team wins 56.7% of games. However, in 10 am games (which are exclusive to west coast teams) home teams wins 64.8%.

Since '01 Seattle has won 39.3% of 10am games, and 45.1% of non 10am road games.
FWIW, my niners have won 31.7% of 10am games, and 51.1% of non 10am road games.
(don't conclude that SF is worse in 10am games than seattle, there just isn't enough data points to have any meaning for the team by team stats, even with 14 years of games).

Want more stats?
in 10am games, the road team commits 7.29 penalties, turns the ball over 1.83 times and drops 5.22% of passes.
In non 10am games, the road team commits 6.42 penalties, turn the ball over 1.39 times and drop 4.97% of passes.

East coast teams playing primetime games on the west coast see a slight decline in performance, but not nearly as significant. (the above is "statistically significant", while the east coast primetime disadvantage is not). It's worth noting that west coast 10am games are far more prevalent (roughly 4x) than east coast primetime games back west.

Finally, some anecdotal evidence specific to your hawks. Since '01, you guys have played 6 playoff games at 10am. You're 1-5 in those games, the lone win coming last week.

Just to piggy back on this. The Montanan 49ers the best west coast team in the Super Bowl era lost every 10 AM road playoff game they ever played. In fact the biggest blowout of the occurred at 10AM 49-3 to Giants. They lost the year before at 10AM to the Giants 17-3 so yes 10AM is a factor.

This awesome do you have a link I can use to point this out to non believers.

 

[Silver Hawk]

It is just ridiculous that west coast teams receive little to no consideration in starting times for east coast games.

Clearly, it is not a level playing field between east and west coast teams. Probably something that should have been resolved a very long time ago.

BTW, this has nothing to do with a conspiracy or "if you'd played better you wouldn't have to come east and play at 10:00 AM". It is simply a fundamental built in advantage that east coast teams receive most of the time (as in every time the game starts at 10:00 AM pacific).

Would it really be that hard to schedule games involving west coast teams in a late afternoon (east coast time) time slot? If not for the regular season, at least for the playoffs?

 

[captSE]

I loves me a good conspiracy but this 10am conspiracy falls short to me. It's quite simple. Win your division and that takes care of that. Win a ton of games and get HFA, then that really takes care of that.

The NFL isn't out to get us people. Take care of business, and the business of the NFL will take care of you.

I don't think most here are calling it a conspiracy (although it fits). But the facts are there supporting the fairness (or not) of these 10am games. The Hawks wouldn't be getting an advantage by moving their game time to what their use to at 1pm pacific, but would gain equal ground.
10am is not the issue, it's what time the body thinks it is.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Agent Dib posted this in another thread. Yet more proof that it's a huge disadvantage to be a Pacific Time Zone team (this one is Seahawks specific) playing at 10:00 AM.......

Here are our 12 playoff first half/second half splits under Pete sorted by start time.

@Panthers: 0-31 first half, 24-0 second half (10am)
@Vikings: 0-3 first half, 10-6 second half (10am)
@Falcons: 0-20 first half, 28-10 second half (10am)
@Bears: 0-21 first half, 24-14 second half (10am)
Packers: 0-16 first half, 22-6 second half (12pm)
Saints: 16-0 first half, 7-15 second half (1pm)
@Redskins: 13-14 first half, 11-0 second half (1pm)
Saints: 24-20 first half, 16-17 second half (1pm)
Patriots: 14-14 first half, 10-14 second half (3pm)
Broncos: 22-0 first half, 21-8 second half (3pm)
Panthers: 14-10 first half, 17-7 second half (5pm)
49ers: 3-10 first half, 20-7 second half (6pm)

Anything jump off the page at you? In games played at 1 pm PST or later we have outscored our opponents 106-68 in the first half. OTOH in games starting before 1pm we have been outscored 0-91 in the first half. This is not a general problem but rather a specific one.

 

[acbass]

I don't understand the scheduling in the playoffs. The Saturday games start at like 4pm and 8:00pm Eastern time. Why can't they do the exact same thing on Sunday? They play 8:30pm games every Sunday and Monday night during the season. There is no reason to start one game that early. I understand the HFA thing, but I have a couple of problems with that as an end all be all rule. First off, if that's your reasoning, then you need to re-seed according to record. A 7-9 team had no business having a home game and a 10-6 or 11-5 team having to go on the road. HFA is things like crowd noise, atmosphere, environment, etc. It's not about arbitrarily starting a game that biases any west coast team. That can be controlled.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

I don't understand the scheduling in the playoffs. The Saturday games start at like 4pm and 8:00pm Eastern time. Why can't they do the exact same thing on Sunday? They play 8:30pm games every Sunday and Monday night during the season. There is no reason to start one game that early. I understand the HFA thing, but I have a couple of problems with that as an end all be all rule. First off, if that's your reasoning, then you need to re-seed according to record. A 7-9 team had no business having a home game and a 10-6 or 11-5 team having to go on the road. HFA is things like crowd noise, atmosphere, environment, etc. It's not about arbitrarily starting a game that biases any west coast team. That can be controlled.

:th2thumbs: :th2thumbs: :th2thumbs:

 

[gaucho]

It's called home field advantage for a reason, enough with the 10:00am game thing. In fact i'm pretty sure our win percentage is better in 10:00am games then non 10:00am games this year.

I'm pretty sure it's not, but I'm pretty sure that's just anecdotal. There is zero doubt that it is a disadvantage, and it turns out that it's quite significant. You guys got screwed by the playoff scheduling. As I mentioned in another thread, west coast teams get screwed in the regular season by having to play at 10 am.

Some stats:

From '01 to '14, home teams win 57.5% of their games. This number is remarkably consistent, within 1% of that figure 9 of the 14 years.

Against West coast teams in non 10am games, home teams wins 55.8% of games. Against central teams home team wins 57.2% against east coast teams home team wins 56.7% of games. However, in 10 am games (which are exclusive to west coast teams) home teams wins 64.8%.

Since '01 Seattle has won 39.3% of 10am games, and 45.1% of non 10am road games.
FWIW, my niners have won 31.7% of 10am games, and 51.1% of non 10am road games.
(don't conclude that SF is worse in 10am games than seattle, there just isn't enough data points to have any meaning for the team by team stats, even with 14 years of games).

Want more stats?
in 10am games, the road team commits 7.29 penalties, turns the ball over 1.83 times and drops 5.22% of passes.
In non 10am games, the road team commits 6.42 penalties, turn the ball over 1.39 times and drop 4.97% of passes.

East coast teams playing primetime games on the west coast see a slight decline in performance, but not nearly as significant. (the above is "statistically significant", while the east coast primetime disadvantage is not). It's worth noting that west coast 10am games are far more prevalent (roughly 4x) than east coast primetime games back west.

Finally, some anecdotal evidence specific to your hawks. Since '01, you guys have played 6 playoff games at 10am. You're 1-5 in those games, the lone win coming last week.

Just to piggy back on this. The Montanan 49ers the best west coast team in the Super Bowl era lost every 10 AM road playoff game they ever played. In fact the biggest blowout of the occurred at 10AM 49-3 to Giants. They lost the year before at 10AM to the Giants 17-3 so yes 10AM is a factor.

This awesome do you have a link I can use to point this out to non believers.

I'm not supposed to share it until it's published. It probably doesn't matter, but I want to be respectful. I'll post a link in this thread when it's up. It will be in February (early, I think).

 

[seedhawk]

It is truly simple people. It is the TV networks, and where most of their viewers reside. The NFL sold out to TV for big bucks, and the networks decide WHO plays when.