Back to back 10am games

[francois.nc]

Why do you think you made it to the Bowl the last 2 years, home field throughout is huge. This year you didn't have it, sorry. Better luck next year.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

You were the number 6 seed, that is the worst, did you expect to get to play at home or something. Maybe you should relocate to the East Coast somewhere so you won't have to complain about 10am games anymore.

Ban this tool. It's about PACIFIC time zone teams, not just Seattle. That is unless you think it was fair that Frisco had to play until almost midnight Pacific time on opening Monday night this year followed by a 10:00 AM game in Pissburgh the next Sunday. THAT is what the NFL does to Pacific Time Zone teams over, and over and...............

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

..........It kind of fits in with the theme of 2015 though, which maximized pre-game and in-game disadvantages like I have never seen for the Seahawks before.

Oh you mean like 6 or 7 teams getting 10-14 days off before playing the Seahawks (including panthers in regular season)?

 

[kearly]

Oh well. On the bright side, Seattle will have one fewer 10am game next year. For once, Goodell did something slimy that actually helped the Seahawks.

 

[OpHawk]

The late night games thing hurts east coast teams as much as the 10am start does for West coast teams. And two of the eight games played so far were played after dark. So it's actually pretty balanced.

What?

 

[kearly]

..........It kind of fits in with the theme of 2015 though, which maximized pre-game and in-game disadvantages like I have never seen for the Seahawks before.

Oh you mean like 6 or 7 teams getting 10-14 days off before playing the Seahawks (including panthers in regular season)?

You're right, I totally forgot about that.

Dammit, where's my tinfoil hat.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

..........It kind of fits in with the theme of 2015 though, which maximized pre-game and in-game disadvantages like I have never seen for the Seahawks before.

Oh you mean like 6 or 7 teams getting 10-14 days off before playing the Seahawks (including panthers in regular season)?

You're right, I totally forgot about that.

Dammit, where's my tinfoil hat.

You can borrow one of mine. I have a couple.

And btw, some conspiracy theories have been proven to be true.

 

[scutterhawk]

Not saying it's a conspiracy but out of the 8 games played last week and this week 2 of them were at 10am and we happened to play in both. We scored 0 in the first halves and 34 in the 2nd halves. I don't think it is a coincidence that the difference in performance between halves was that dramatic. The NFL could easily make the early games start no earlier then noon if they want to make it as fair as possible especially when handcuffing a west co east team on the road playing back to back weeks.

Again not saying it was done purposely but the results between the 2 first and second halves speak for themselves. Thoughts?

Wilson doesn't come out slow and cold, throw TWO interceptions in the first half, and it's quite possibly a different game.
It doesn't help to spot them 14 points.
Had Pete Carroll and his Coaching staff taken care of some deficiencies early on in the Season, we just might have had a better shot at getting HFA.
I think that sometimes, an injury or two can force adjustments that should have been addressed a lot sooner.
I still have my concerns with these D to O conversion players on the Offensive line.... I don't like experimenting with Russell Wilsons protection.
It became OBVIOUS to me today, that the Offensive Line duties of pushing for the Run Game had been thrown into the scrap heap, because Marshawn Lynch was neutralized, and on top of that, the Pass Protection was abysmal.
The Panthers were NOT head and shoulders better than the Seahawks today, but they were playing with a lot more gusto from the first kickoff, and the Seahawks came out cold (as usual), and it got away from them.
The Panthers played with zeal to gain a hefty lead, and then played a so-so game in the second half and barely hung on to win.
Hell, who knows, maybe, just maybe Thomas Rawls comes back healthy and with vengeance next Season, the O-Line get's properly addressed/fixed with the Draft....lots of room for improvement, eh?

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Not saying it's a conspiracy but out of the 8 games played last week and this week 2 of them were at 10am and we happened to play in both. We scored 0 in the first halves and 34 in the 2nd halves. I don't think it is a coincidence that the difference in performance between halves was that dramatic. The NFL could easily make the early games start no earlier then noon if they want to make it as fair as possible especially when handcuffing a west co east team on the road playing back to back weeks.

Again not saying it was done purposely but the results between the 2 first and second halves speak for themselves. Thoughts?

Wilson doesn't come out slow and cold, throw TWO interceptions in the first half, and it's quite possibly a different game.
It doesn't help to spot them 14 points............

Agree and the first one was TOTALLY on Russ. Horrible decision. The 2nd one however was because he was hit blind side as he threw causing the int. That was on the o-line.

 

[Hawkpower]

Why do you think you made it to the Bowl the last 2 years, home field throughout is huge. This year you didn't have it, sorry. Better luck next year.

Well gee, thanks for stopping by and letting us know.

Now scurry along.

 

[VivaEfrenHerrera]

...That said, it does kind of feel like a conspiracy that Seattle got BOTH 10am games, while the AFC combined for zero of them. It kind of fits in with the theme of 2015 though, which maximized pre-game and in-game disadvantages like I have never seen for the Seahawks before.

Money point. It really did seem like a rugged year in that regard -- just weird that way this season. Certainly, to think that the the league would sculpt the wole season's schedule just to muck with Seattle is insane.

But when the playoffs come and you have only two 10 a.m. slots in the entire tournament, and the only west coast team gets both, it's hard to see that as anything other than intentional.

 

[gaucho]

It's called home field advantage for a reason, enough with the 10:00am game thing. In fact i'm pretty sure our win percentage is better in 10:00am games then non 10:00am games this year.

I'm pretty sure it's not, but I'm pretty sure that's just anecdotal. There is zero doubt that it is a disadvantage, and it turns out that it's quite significant. You guys got screwed by the playoff scheduling. As I mentioned in another thread, west coast teams get screwed in the regular season by having to play at 10 am.

Some stats:

From '01 to '14, home teams win 57.5% of their games. This number is remarkably consistent, within 1% of that figure 9 of the 14 years.

Against West coast teams in non 10am games, home teams wins 55.8% of games. Against central teams home team wins 57.2% against east coast teams home team wins 56.7% of games. However, in 10 am games (which are exclusive to west coast teams) home teams wins 64.8%.

Since '01 Seattle has won 39.3% of 10am games, and 45.1% of non 10am road games.
FWIW, my niners have won 31.7% of 10am games, and 51.1% of non 10am road games.
(don't conclude that SF is worse in 10am games than seattle, there just isn't enough data points to have any meaning for the team by team stats, even with 14 years of games).

Want more stats?
in 10am games, the road team commits 7.29 penalties, turns the ball over 1.83 times and drops 5.22% of passes.
In non 10am games, the road team commits 6.42 penalties, turn the ball over 1.39 times and drop 4.97% of passes.

East coast teams playing primetime games on the west coast see a slight decline in performance, but not nearly as significant. (the above is "statistically significant", while the east coast primetime disadvantage is not). It's worth noting that west coast 10am games are far more prevalent (roughly 4x) than east coast primetime games back west.

Finally, some anecdotal evidence specific to your hawks. Since '01, you guys have played 6 playoff games at 10am. You're 1-5 in those games, the lone win coming last week.

 

[falcongoggles]

It's called home field advantage for a reason, enough with the 10:00am game thing. In fact i'm pretty sure our win percentage is better in 10:00am games then non 10:00am games this year.

I'm pretty sure it's not, but I'm pretty sure that's just anecdotal. There is zero doubt that it is a disadvantage, and it turns out that it's quite significant. You guys got screwed by the playoff scheduling. As I mentioned in another thread, west coast teams get screwed in the regular season by having to play at 10 am.

Some stats:

From '01 to '14, home teams win 57.5% of their games. This number is remarkably consistent, within 1% of that figure 9 of the 14 years.

Against West coast teams in non 10am games, home teams wins 55.8% of games. Against central teams home team wins 57.2% against east coast teams home team wins 56.7% of games. However, in 10 am games (which are exclusive to west coast teams) home teams wins 64.8%.

Since '01 Seattle has won 39.3% of 10am games, and 45.1% of non 10am road games.
FWIW, my niners have won 31.7% of 10am games, and 51.1% of non 10am road games.
(don't conclude that SF is worse in 10am games than seattle, there just isn't enough data points to have any meaning for the team by team stats, even with 14 years of games).

Want more stats?
in 10am games, the road team commits 7.29 penalties, turns the ball over 1.83 times and drops 5.22% of passes.
In non 10am games, the road team commits 6.42 penalties, turn the ball over 1.39 times and drop 4.97% of passes.

East coast teams playing primetime games on the west coast see a slight decline in performance, but not nearly as significant. (the above is "statistically significant", while the east coast primetime disadvantage is not). It's worth noting that west coast 10am games are far more prevalent (roughly 4x) than east coast primetime games back west.

Finally, some anecdotal evidence specific to your hawks. Since '01, you guys have played 6 playoff games at 10am. You're 1-5 in those games, the lone win coming last week.

FSM bless you sir!

 

[ZagHawk]

Eh, don't want 10 am games. Win the division or preferably HFA.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

It's called home field advantage for a reason, enough with the 10:00am game thing. In fact i'm pretty sure our win percentage is better in 10:00am games then non 10:00am games this year.

I'm pretty sure it's not, but I'm pretty sure that's just anecdotal. There is zero doubt that it is a disadvantage, and it turns out that it's quite significant. You guys got screwed by the playoff scheduling. As I mentioned in another thread, west coast teams get screwed in the regular season by having to play at 10 am.

Some stats:

From '01 to '14, home teams win 57.5% of their games. This number is remarkably consistent, within 1% of that figure 9 of the 14 years.

Against West coast teams in non 10am games, home teams wins 55.8% of games. Against central teams home team wins 57.2% against east coast teams home team wins 56.7% of games. However, in 10 am games (which are exclusive to west coast teams) home teams wins 64.8%.

Since '01 Seattle has won 39.3% of 10am games, and 45.1% of non 10am road games.
FWIW, my niners have won 31.7% of 10am games, and 51.1% of non 10am road games.
(don't conclude that SF is worse in 10am games than seattle, there just isn't enough data points to have any meaning for the team by team stats, even with 14 years of games).

Want more stats?
in 10am games, the road team commits 7.29 penalties, turns the ball over 1.83 times and drops 5.22% of passes.
In non 10am games, the road team commits 6.42 penalties, turn the ball over 1.39 times and drop 4.97% of passes.

East coast teams playing primetime games on the west coast see a slight decline in performance, but not nearly as significant. (the above is "statistically significant", while the east coast primetime disadvantage is not). It's worth noting that west coast 10am games are far more prevalent (roughly 4x) than east coast primetime games back west.

Finally, some anecdotal evidence specific to your hawks. Since '01, you guys have played 6 playoff games at 10am. You're 1-5 in those games, the lone win coming last week.

Thanks for a great post!

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

It's called home field advantage for a reason, enough with the 10:00am game thing. In fact i'm pretty sure our win percentage is better in 10:00am games then non 10:00am games this year.

I'm pretty sure it's not, but I'm pretty sure that's just anecdotal. There is zero doubt that it is a disadvantage, and it turns out that it's quite significant. You guys got screwed by the playoff scheduling. As I mentioned in another thread, west coast teams get screwed in the regular season by having to play at 10 am.

Some stats:

From '01 to '14, home teams win 57.5% of their games. This number is remarkably consistent, within 1% of that figure 9 of the 14 years.

Against West coast teams in non 10am games, home teams wins 55.8% of games. Against central teams home team wins 57.2% against east coast teams home team wins 56.7% of games. However, in 10 am games (which are exclusive to west coast teams) home teams wins 64.8%.

Since '01 Seattle has won 39.3% of 10am games, and 45.1% of non 10am road games.
FWIW, my niners have won 31.7% of 10am games, and 51.1% of non 10am road games.
(don't conclude that SF is worse in 10am games than seattle, there just isn't enough data points to have any meaning for the team by team stats, even with 14 years of games).

Want more stats?
in 10am games, the road team commits 7.29 penalties, turns the ball over 1.83 times and drops 5.22% of passes.
In non 10am games, the road team commits 6.42 penalties, turn the ball over 1.39 times and drop 4.97% of passes.

East coast teams playing primetime games on the west coast see a slight decline in performance, but not nearly as significant. (the above is "statistically significant", while the east coast primetime disadvantage is not). It's worth noting that west coast 10am games are far more prevalent (roughly 4x) than east coast primetime games back west.

Finally, some anecdotal evidence specific to your hawks. Since '01, you guys have played 6 playoff games at 10am. You're 1-5 in those games, the lone win coming last week.

Thanks for a great post! Guessing the powers that be in the NFL (Commissioner Rooney and his lieutenants, Kraft and Mara) already were well aware of that.

 

[gaucho]

Thanks for the kind words, guys.

I'm optimistic that Goodell will make changes. He's done so in the past (admittedly for a competitive disadvantage brought to him by east coast teams). In my mind, the only question is whether it happens this year as a result of increased pressure from teams (in which case you best believe I'm taking credit, deserved or not, as I know he's seen my paper) or we have to wait until the average fan is educated enough on the topic to voice their opinions collectively.

Regarding what Goodell knows, allow me to quote my paper, as I'm lazy and this is the 2nd time I'm typing this post because I'm dumb and accidentally deleted it:


This topic was brought to the attention of Commissioner Goodell prior to the 2009 season, at which point he was quoted as saying that he “had not seen specific information suggesting early starts [for west coast teams traveling east] could create a competitive disadvantage for visiting teams.”

To Commissioner Goodell’s credit, he revisited the subject in October 2012 with a much more sympathetic stance of the situation, saying that "Several of our teams on the West Coast have raised that [issue of morning body clock games] and we have been studying it. We have tried to put as many of those games on the East Coast at 4 pm. You can imagine the thousands of different issues you have to put into the schedule. But the 10 o'clock starts are pretty tough."

Despite this statement, little has been done in terms of scheduling. In the 14 yrs of data studied in this paper, there was an average of 25 morning body clock start time games per year. This accounts for more than half of all road games for TZ 1 & 2 teams. In 2015, there were 26 such games.

 

[sdog1981]

It's called home field advantage for a reason, enough with the 10:00am game thing. In fact i'm pretty sure our win percentage is better in 10:00am games then non 10:00am games this year.

I'm pretty sure it's not, but I'm pretty sure that's just anecdotal. There is zero doubt that it is a disadvantage, and it turns out that it's quite significant. You guys got screwed by the playoff scheduling. As I mentioned in another thread, west coast teams get screwed in the regular season by having to play at 10 am.

Some stats:

From '01 to '14, home teams win 57.5% of their games. This number is remarkably consistent, within 1% of that figure 9 of the 14 years.

Against West coast teams in non 10am games, home teams wins 55.8% of games. Against central teams home team wins 57.2% against east coast teams home team wins 56.7% of games. However, in 10 am games (which are exclusive to west coast teams) home teams wins 64.8%.

Since '01 Seattle has won 39.3% of 10am games, and 45.1% of non 10am road games.
FWIW, my niners have won 31.7% of 10am games, and 51.1% of non 10am road games.
(don't conclude that SF is worse in 10am games than seattle, there just isn't enough data points to have any meaning for the team by team stats, even with 14 years of games).

Want more stats?
in 10am games, the road team commits 7.29 penalties, turns the ball over 1.83 times and drops 5.22% of passes.
In non 10am games, the road team commits 6.42 penalties, turn the ball over 1.39 times and drop 4.97% of passes.

East coast teams playing primetime games on the west coast see a slight decline in performance, but not nearly as significant. (the above is "statistically significant", while the east coast primetime disadvantage is not). It's worth noting that west coast 10am games are far more prevalent (roughly 4x) than east coast primetime games back west.

Finally, some anecdotal evidence specific to your hawks. Since '01, you guys have played 6 playoff games at 10am. You're 1-5 in those games, the lone win coming last week.

Just to piggy back on this. The Montanan 49ers the best west coast team in the Super Bowl era lost every 10 AM road playoff game they ever played. In fact the biggest blowout of the occurred at 10AM 49-3 to Giants. They lost the year before at 10AM to the Giants 17-3 so yes 10AM is a factor.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

gaucho: I am hopeful that having a team in LA will facilitate change as I am quite sure the league would like to see that team competitive so as to build a good hardcore fanbase. Feel free to mention that it would help with that goal.

It is absolutely not necessary to play any game at 10:00 AM Pacific time. Considering that the eastern time zone teams are scheduled now so they don't have to go west more than twice a season, in the interest of competitive balance and parity, a change to no western time zone teams starting at 10 AM Pacific time is long overdue.

 

[NINEster]

The late night games thing hurts east coast teams as much as the 10am start does for West coast teams. And two of the eight games played so far were played after dark. So it's actually pretty balanced.

That said, it does kind of feel like a conspiracy that Seattle got BOTH 10am games, while the AFC combined for zero of them. It kind of fits in with the theme of 2015 though, which maximized pre-game and in-game disadvantages like I have never seen for the Seahawks before.

The majority of the league are in the central/eastern time zones, with only Denver and Arizona playing in mountain time zone. CST & EST based teams can and will play the 10 am/ 1 pm time slot.

The Cardinals and Panthers hosted this weekend. You can't give both of them the late games by default, without considering the AFC. The Saturday 4:35 PM game is considered the lowest ranked game for broadcasting -- New England vs. Kansas City. You either take the medicine with Panthers/Seahawks being the lowest rated game for broadcasting, or you go with what makes sense from a non biased league standpoint.

As for last week, very similar circumstances. KC/Houston was the snoozer game, and the Saturday night game went to the more ratings appropriate contest (Pitt/CIN).

They probably could have made Washington/Green Bay the early game, but chose not too.

But you know they would have made Seattle the late game if it was Seattle/Green Bay wildcard, and Minnesota/Washington was the other game.

Others also point out that west coast teams have the advantage for late night games played on the west coast.....exact opposite deal.