Art Thiel ask if its Time to trade Russell

[adeltaY]

You have convinced yourself that one of the most competitive players in the league is satisfied with just scoring touchdowns in the second half. Believe what you want. Your Wilson hate is showing, as usual.
Oh well, Go Hawks

This. The whole "oh he's not visibly mad so he's not a good leader and doesn't care enough" is flat out nonsense. It's not football, it's innuendo and gossip tier reasoning. Oh, Rodgers looks mad and Brady yelled at his coach? Don't give a damn.

 

[TwistedHusky]

I never said Wilson was to blame RE:1st half futility.

Some of you are responding as if this was even implied. It isn't.

I said I wished he would take it upon himself to wage more of a campaign and lobby against it.

But yes, no way in the hell would Rodgers stand for something like this.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I said I wished he would take it upon himself to wage more of a campaign and lobby against it..

Who's to say he hasn't? Just because Russell doesn't use the press like Rodgers and some other QB's to air their dissatisfaction doesn't mean he's not lobbying and complaining in the meeting rooms.

IMO it's up to Pete and the coordinators to figure out how to get Russell going faster, rather than it' something he needs to actively lobby for.................especially through the press or social media.

Russell's a tempo/rhythm QB, so if we're pointing to the main reason he's better in the 2nd half of games? That's it, it takes him and that long to get into rhythm. Which the stats bear out, every single one of his QB stats is WAY higher in the 2nd half of games, especially the 4th quarter than the first half.

 

[vin.couve12]

There are only a couple here with delusional insight about RW not wanting to score in the first half of games. You're going to have to deal with the fact that he plays jittery and tight until the 1st half two minute warning with a following lull until late 3rd quarter.

It's not a matter of what RW wants. It's what he's proven to show what he is and isn't consistent at.

 

[TwistedHusky]

That would be unfortunate.

I am hoping that the problem is the issue with plays being called, coaching decisions and the like.

If that is truly the reality with Wilson, and it isn't resolvable, then his value diminishes greatly.

It won't matter if you score a bunch in the 4th if you have sanded your defense down by then. And it certainly will assure that a lot more games will be an uphill climb back.

I am really hoping you are wrong on that one Vin. Because otherwise, we won't be able to switch from a defense focused win strategy to an offense focused one - and with our defense getting older/injured we will have to make that switch eventually.

If Wilson literally cannot produce for a full half as a product of the kind of QB he is, that limits our chances greatly.

BUT we seem to do just fine when we get behind in the 1st half and need to score, we do. So that seems to indicate it is a change in strategy/tactics that leads to the ability to score. Which seems to indicate that Wilson CAN be effective in both halves if given the right play calls to do so.

 

[vin.couve12]

Play calls could absolutely be a part of it, but that's absolutely not the cause of his accuracy issues in that same time frame.

Another aspect that could augment tgis is the mantra of playing it safe and not turning the ball over, but I still SEE that he's inaccurate early in games and will freeze up. I think it's mostly mental, but being conservative is definitely part of it.

I still go back to being fine with it under the current outdated contract contingent on us investing in plan B when it's up and get back to running the football so we don't have all our eggs in one basket.

 

[scutterhawk]

Many know that I've been more critical of RW than almost anyone here, but in the current climate even with a backup QB winning the SB, you keep RW because his contract is and will continue to be ever more outdated.

RW is a very, very good QB/Point Guard. I don't think he should be payed at the top of the list even if some other lesser guys are making more, but an outdated contract fits. Let him play it out and if you see a diamond in the rough of a QB then draft him mid to late round and if he sits for a couple years then so be it. If RW can improve further as a pocket aware passer then maybe you pay and stay and so be it. The outcome should be all business and no message board sentiment will matter, including my own.

BYAH!

Fine with the playing contract out but looking at it with more vision..
His trade value will never be higher before that contract ends because
the closer you get the less you will get.
Maybe he doesn't get any better or improve squat so keep paying?
As above stated did we win the SB with an elite QB?
I feel like I'm still waiting to see that.

You SEEN it in the second half of 2015, you've just chosen to ignore it.
He'd proved THEN, that he can be elite when he gets SOME HELP from his O-Line, EVEN WITHOUT having the likes of Marshawn Lynch to help keep Defenses on their heels.
Oh and, it was the DEFENSE that gave up all those points put up by Cam Newton in the playoffs, and it was Russell Wilson that scored the Seahawks back within reach of winning that game in the second half.
NO Quarterback is going to do it all by himself, not even LORD Brady.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Truth. It's amazing how the D gets a pass on a regular basis. Even when they blow leads at the end of the game, the 4th quarter etc. Somehow they are above the same criticism that Russ gets. Redskins game, he took them on a game winning drive....only to see the D crap the bed when the game was on the line. The D got flat out torched against the Texans, he lead the team to the victory, 34 of the 41 was on the offense. The D got torched quite a few times the last couple seasons. More time is spent (by some) making excuses for WHY he is so successful. Somehow it's only because of the D or the Running game or whatever. This run with has been the best we've seen as Hawks fans, bar none. Proud he is the QB of this team. Without him, we don't see either super bowl......(48 or 49).
Down 16 with 5 minutes left in the NFC Championship, and who was on the sidelines telling everyone it's just 16 points? We're gonna' win this game etc. He flat out willed that team to another Super Bowl trip.

 

[Scorpion05]

Saying Russell had nothing to do with that Super Bowl win speaks of low football knowledge. A blowout is a perfect storm of a defense that shuts the opposing team down, and an offense that is efficient. If the latter fails it’s a different ball game. Saying that any QB could have won that SuperBowl speaks of a bias towards Russell that confuses me.

I don’t know if it’s a cultural thing, where the nation prefers tall, conventional Qbs that look and act a certain way. Or if it’s a perception thing purely based on the identity of our team. But the constant diminishment of Russell is really bizarre and lacking in all manners of fairness or reason. Russell is at minimum an A- Quarterback. And is a kicker away from being 11-5 despite our injuries. It’s a shame he’ll never be truly given the credit he deserves unlike most fans who praise their franchise Qb. Even many Philly fans understand it’s unlikely Foles can lead them back to another Super Bowl as a full time starter

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Outstanding post Scorp. Winning doesn't need to LOOK a certain way. You either get it done or you don't. And he has been very successful. He's not THE reason, but a huge reason they have had such a winning culture since he came in to the league. The fascination by fans and media with his size, how he acts etc. is beyond ridiculous. I will never understand why people care so much with how he is, how he looks etc. Who gives a crap? Does he win or does he lose? That's what matters. I'm surprised people just don't come out and say "I want a quarterback to look the way I WANT him to." So many of the QB's that people drool over haven't had near the success that Russ has.

 

[mrt144]

Scorpio, doesn't it feel like RW is being measured against a QB that doesn't exist or if he does, is viewed as a flawless platonic ideal in a vacuum.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It’s a shame he’ll never be truly given the credit he deserves unlike most fans who praise their franchise Qb.

They will if he leaves or gets traded and we have to endure another 30-40 years of a revolving door of QB futility.

 

[scutterhawk]

it isn't fair to point out all his comebacks and then dismiss he was a part of the reason for those comebacks.

It sure as hell is...Pete has him on a play 'conservative' leash for three quarters before turning him loose, is a damn good reason..... The very fact that Wilson is even ABLE to make those extraordinary comeback plays to WIN those games, is golden.

 

[vin.couve12]

Many know that I've been more critical of RW than almost anyone here, but in the current climate even with a backup QB winning the SB, you keep RW because his contract is and will continue to be ever more outdated.

RW is a very, very good QB/Point Guard. I don't think he should be payed at the top of the list even if some other lesser guys are making more, but an outdated contract fits. Let him play it out and if you see a diamond in the rough of a QB then draft him mid to late round and if he sits for a couple years then so be it. If RW can improve further as a pocket aware passer then maybe you pay and stay and so be it. The outcome should be all business and no message board sentiment will matter, including my own.

BYAH!

Fine with the playing contract out but looking at it with more vision..
His trade value will never be higher before that contract ends because
the closer you get the less you will get.
Maybe he doesn't get any better or improve squat so keep paying?
As above stated did we win the SB with an elite QB?
I feel like I'm still waiting to see that.

You SEEN it in the second half of 2015, you've just chosen to ignore it.
He'd proved THEN, that he can be elite when he gets SOME HELP from his O-Line, EVEN WITHOUT having the likes of Marshawn Lynch to help keep Defenses on their heels.
Oh and, it was the DEFENSE that gave up all those points put up by Cam Newton in the playoffs, and it was Russell Wilson that scored the Seahawks back within reach of winning that game in the second half.
NO Quarterback is going to do it all by himself, not even LORD Brady.

8 games over the coarse of his career is absolutely not proof. Anyone can get a hot hand.

 

[vin.couve12]

If you want to try and change the subject to shortcomings.of the defense and site RW's success, then keep that in perspective too.

Hawks allowed the least points scored for years. RW didn't need to score as many points as other QBs for HIS success.

Stupid redirects fail.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

:34853_doh:

Ok, we get it. Russ is an average QB who has nothing to do with the success of the Team. And I guess any average QB could have taken them to 2 Super Bowl's. Is that better? I would think the best QB in team history would get a little more respect from the "fans"
But, clearly he will NEVER live up to what people expect from him. How could a guy who has been nothing but a class guy, a total leader and been incredibly successful be so hated? It makes zero sense. But have at it.
Go Hawks

 

[mrt144]

:34853_doh:

Ok, we get it. Russ is an average QB who has nothing to do with the success of the Team. And I guess any average QB could have taken them to 2 Super Bowl's. Is that better? I would think the best QB in team history would get a little more respect from the "fans"
But, clearly he will NEVER live up to what people expect from him.

Even better, if this is absolutely the case, let's just entertain it, how is the derision piled on RW for being who he is rather than the FO and PC seemingly being asleep at the wheel and letting the team deteriorate around their 'average' QB.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And to do what he has done, with what he has had to work with? You gotta' be kidding me. If that doesn't show how great a player he is, not sure what people are looking at.
Crap coaching from Bev and Cable, a horrific O Line and no running game.

 

[mrt144]

And to do what he has done, with what he has had to work with? You gotta' be kidding me. If that doesn't show how great a player he is, not sure what people are looking at.
Crap coaching from Bev and Cable, a horrific O Line and no running game.

Devil's Advocate: Don't you see the light brother, if RW was a better QB in a very nebulous sense, none of that would matter. Since RW can't paper over the flaws of the rest of the team, he doesn't deserve his salary considerations he currently enjoys. I have very many thoughts about what the Hawks should have done instead and if you subscribe to my podcast you'll hear all about that and more.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

They are a 5 win team w/out him.
I do enjoy a good podcast though. :2thumbs: