Appreciating Mr Wilson

[dunceface]

I like to say Russell is a great FACILITATOR of the offense as opposed to a traditional pocket passer type for people who haven't heard of or are too dense to understand the value of the "point guard" idea at the QB position with a strong defense and grinding run game. Which Pete talked about it early on in Russell's developement.
We have seen what he can do when they let him off of his leash and the top comes off and it's magic.



and I'm thankful today that he does it better than anyone has in a Hawks uniform ever
AMEN

 

[TXHawk]

That is exactly why we shouldn't say that Wilson is better than Hasselbeck at this point. Hasselbeck had more experience, and at the peak of his career he was talked about as being a top 3-5 QB even by national pundits. Too many people remember the old tired out Hasselbeck, not the guy that could completely take over games and dominate.

I don't remember the national media ever talking about Hasselbeck as an elite first tier quarterback. In his prime he was considered a good Pro Bowl-caliber QB but was never in the same discussion as Manning, Brady, or Favre as an elite quarterback.

Hass was a very good WC quarterback and was definitely better than Wilson at getting the ball out quickly and on time. Wilson is the more dynamic QB and can turn a blown up play into a big gain in a way Hass could not and always gives his team a chance to win by limiting mistakes. Hasselbeck was a better fit for Holmgren's West Coast offense while Wilson is the better choice for Carroll's philosophy and playing behind a shaky injury prone offensive line.

People also have to remember that Hasselbeck was a backup at Green Bay for two seasons so was well-versed in Holmgren's offense when he came to Seattle, yet he still struggled his first two seasons as a starter. It wasn't until his third season in Seattle that he really started becoming an efficient NFL starting quarterback. Wilson had to learn a whole new offense while adjusting to the pro game but was still a better QB right out of the box than Hass was. Through their first three seasons as starting quarterbacks Wilson has been the better QB and its not a close call. Wilson would essentially have to stop developing over the coming years to not be a better NFL quarterback than Hasselbeck was in his prime which didn't really start until he was 28 and in his fifth season in the league.

 

[Scottemojo]

He's a good QB, but straight up I'd rather have 2007 Hasselbeck.

Hm, yeah, Okay :roll: he'd be able to get the Receivers to catch those dropped passes that Wilson has thrown.
He'd also have as many or more interceptions than TD's, and more time on IR, but then again we'd have his backup (Wilson) to come in and do the job right.

It would be quite an adjustment if you were to try actual discourse rather than the shit throwing you engage in. One of the worst posters on the board.

 

[Ozzy]

Winning is a bad argument for a single players merits. Especially when said player has an elite running game, and elite defense to fall back on.

It is intellectually lazy to keep using this argument . Couldn't you say its easy being a great defense when you have a QB who doesn't turn the ball over and can bail you out when needed(See Atl playoff game) How many last second game winning drives did the defense give up last year? Or couldn't I also say Lynch is so good because of the threat of Wilson? A lot of our running success is predicated by the read option and the threat of Wilson running. Wilson has more game winning drives in his short career than ARod does in his career. Is that solely because of the defense? Or Lynch? Wilson is a great football player. So is Lynch and so is the defense. They aren't mutually exclusive. I'm not saying the defense/Lynch are only good because of Wilson, I'm only pointing out the ridiculousness of the original argument. They all help each other. It's like saying Rodgers is only good because he has two all pro receivers, Manning is only good because he's always had an elite wr group or any other example.

I think you're honestly trolling to get a response from people which is lame but carry on if you feel the need.

Edit added: I'm a huge Hasselbeck fan. One of my favorite all time Seahawks but to say he is better than Wilson is baffling to me. Pains me a little to even have to argue against Hass! :shock: You can have a differing opinion and I love a good debate as much as anyone but you seem to throw it out there every chance you get even in threads that don't really warrant a debate. This was a thread about appreciating what Wilson is, not a thread discussing his place in Seahawks QB history. So tough to think you're not trolling when you don't respect time/place with this issue.

 

[EntiatHawk]

Like many here I truly appreciate what Hasselbeck did with this franchise and during his tenure we achieved going to the Superbowl and had a great run for several years.

But Wilson is much calmer QB in the face of pressure and adversity and this is not even close. We can all remember Hass having complete meltdowns in games. Hass was much more of a classic pocket passer and needed to keep fairly clean to perform at a high level. 2007 may have been his best year but he has never shown to have that killer way that Wilson seems to have innately.

We have never had a game that Wilson has played that we were completely out of it and it takes many parts of the equation to achieve that but the fact that in 3 years that has never happened says something about Wilson ability to just win. Not all of that has been Marshawn and the Defense. Look at the the 2012 playoffs Wilson took over both of those games. And in the Super Bowl he again was in control the whole game. He never made any mistakes to give Denver even a chance to get back into it that allowed the Defense to rip Denver a new one.

Wilson play the hand given him and excels. We now have a trophy in the case because of it.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Winning is a bad argument for a single players merits. Especially when said player has an elite running game, and elite defense to fall back on.

It is intellectually lazy to keep using this argument . Couldn't you say its easy being a great defense when you have a QB who doesn't turn the ball over and can bail you out when needed(See Atl playoff game) How many last second game winning drives did the defense give up last year? Or couldn't I also say Lynch is so good because of the threat of Wilson? A lot of our running success is predicated by the read option and the threat of Wilson running. Wilson has more game winning drives in his short career than ARod does in his career. Is that solely because of the defense? Or Lynch? Wilson is a great football player. So is Lynch and so is the defense. They aren't mutually exclusive. I'm not saying the defense/Lynch are only good because of Wilson, I'm only pointing out the ridiculousness of the original argument. They all help each other. It's like saying Rodgers is only good because he has two all pro receivers, Manning is only good because he's always had an elite wr group or any other example.

I think you're honestly trolling to get a response from people which is lame but carry on if you feel the need.

Edit added: I'm a huge Hasselbeck fan. One of my favorite all time Seahawks but to say he is better than Wilson is baffling to me. Pains me a little to even have to argue against Hass! :shock: You can have a differing opinion and I love a good debate as much as anyone but you seem to throw it out there every chance you get even in threads that don't really warrant a debate. This was a thread about appreciating what Wilson is, not a thread discussing his place in Seahawks QB history. So tough to think you're not trolling when you don't respect time/place with this issue.

It is intellectually lazy to keep using the argument "but he doesn't turn the ball over, he's clutch!", you know who else was "clutch"? Tim Tebow. That is why I never liked the Andrew Luck proponents arguments, but he just wins! It completely ignores the fact that Andrew Luck put the team in a bad situation in the first place in his first two years.

Wilson and the offense do the same thing to a lesser extent. While he doesn't turn the ball over there are periods of sometimes 3 quarters of inept offense. If the Seahawks did not have the defense that they did we wouldn't be able to attempt those comebacks. Even more disturbing is that the Seahawks have not ever won a game with Wilson when the opposing offense scored more than 25 points. When the opposing offense scores 24 points the Seahawks are 2-2 in Wilson's career, those wins coming against a terrible Bucs team, and a winless Raiders team. To say that the defense doesn't benefit Wilson tremendously is being intellectually dishonest to say the least, yet people conveniently tend to forget that Wilson was playing behind a once in a generation defense. In fact he has never had a defense ranked blow 5th since he's been in the league.

Hasselbeck on the other hand never had a great defense, his receivers were ho-hum practically his whole career. In fact he made it to the superbowl with career journeyman Joe Jurevicius and Bobby Engram (of course Alexander played a huge part too). Hasselbeck stepped up when we needed him most in the playoffs, and of course we all know about the superbowl debacle with Bill Leavy. In 2007 Hasselbeck had a porous defense, mediocre receivers, and a line that played awfully, plus he had no running game to speak of. Mo Morris was our leading rusher that season. Hasselbeck did not have the luxury of not producing, because if he didn't the Seahawks were going to lose.

When multiple people say that Wilson is better than Hasselbeck I need to chime in, Wilson has yet to reach the heights that Hasselbeck did as far as passing and reading defenses goes.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Like many here I truly appreciate what Hasselbeck did with this franchise and during his tenure we achieved going to the Superbowl and had a great run for several years.

But Wilson is much calmer QB in the face of pressure and adversity and this is not even close. We can all remember Hass having complete meltdowns in games. Hass was much more of a classic pocket passer and needed to keep fairly clean to perform at a high level. 2007 may have been his best year but he has never shown to have that killer way that Wilson seems to have innately.

And Hasselbeck didn't face adversity? Just take a look at his 2007 season. Yes, he kept himself clean, but he also did more to help the line than Wilson. He got the ball out of his hand very quickly, and if he saw a matchup issue he would change the play to something advantageous. You blitz him? He would either get rid of it or locate his checkdown or hot read. Yes, Hasselbeck needed to stay clean, but he also did many more things to help himself stay clean than Wilson.

We have never had a game that Wilson has played that we were completely out of it and it takes many parts of the equation to achieve that but the fact that in 3 years that has never happened says something about Wilson ability to just win. Not all of that has been Marshawn and the Defense. Look at the the 2012 playoffs Wilson took over both of those games. And in the Super Bowl he again was in control the whole game. He never made any mistakes to give Denver even a chance to get back into it that allowed the Defense to rip Denver a new one.

Gee you think having a top 5 defense of all time doesn't have anything to do with that? Not making mistakes is not good enough. Superbowl? I disagree, he didn't do anything until the game was well out of hand.

Wilson play the hand given him and excels. We now have a trophy in the case because of it.

 

[Seahwkgal]

MAKE YOUR OWN APPRECIATE HASS THREAD THEN! This thread was NEVER about Hass vs Wilson until you 'Spun' it.
I appreciate Hass for what he did. Let's talk about that in another discussion. For this one: WILSON IS MANN!!!!

 

[quneur]

Let's see, I remember Wilson's first NFL snap, he felt pressure rolled to his right and hit a TE for 10 yards. Same game, he kept the ball and ran left for a TD fooling everyone.

Wilson's escaping Denver pressure and ran it directly up the middle for a first down.

Wilson hitting Rice in OT win over Bears.

Wilson buying time to throwing a hail mary to Tate.

Wilson throwing a beautiful pass to Rice for the winning TD against Patriots.

Wilson running a 100 yards only to gain 6.

Wilson rushing for 4 TD's against Bills.

Wilson's piroette.

Wilson leaving two defenders eating dirt and throwing a TD during the probowl play.

What I remember about 2007 Hasselbeck, "We are going to get the ball and we are going to win." Honestly, I remember him being a good QB but there's nothing memorable about his play. Wilson pulls out some, "I can't believe he did that" kind of plays. Before Wilson, the most exciting play Seahawks pulled was in KC, Kreig pulled a Wilson and got out the grasp of Derrick Thomas and threw a TD to Skanzi in the final play. But that becomes rather routine now.

I would much rather have Wilson because he makes football exciting again. You never know whether the play is going to fall dead or something spectacular is going to happen. Nail biting. 20 years from now, those are the plays everyone remembers; not marching up the field by throwing 10 yards at a time to Bobby Engram.

 

[Northhawk]

I love Hass but there is no way he would get the same results on this team as Wilson. It's Russ's mobility that works and Hass was anything but mobile. In fact, I would like to use that time machine to take Russ back to 2005 and see what he could have done that season.

 

[RiverDog]

I love Hass but there is no way he would get the same results on this team as Wilson. It's Russ's mobility that works and Hass was anything but mobile. In fact, I would like to use that time machine to take Russ back to 2005 and see what he could have done that season.

Hass was more mobile than you're giving him credit for. He wasn't the athlete Russell is, but he was plenty mobile for our needs considering the fact that we had the best OL in the game in 2005. One of my enduring memories of the NFCCG vs. Carolina in our only other SB run was Hass scrambling for about 20 yards and sliding into the end zone for our first TD. He had an outstanding year, only threw something like 7 picks the entire season. Whether or not Russell would have been better is debatable, but there's no arguing that Hass was a very good quarterback for Holmgren's WCO and that the 2005 season was the peak of his career and one of the best seasons turned in by a Hawk QB in the history of our franchise.

But you're right about Hass as it applies to our current team. With our OL, Hass would get killed.