2017 to be Pete Carroll's Get It Done or Move On Season?

[Donn2390]

As for the infamous play, the execution of the play by the WR's was the bigger fail than the call itself IMO. But that's football. You move on and each year stands on it's own. It's disappointing that some of the players and fans cannot do that.

The call was so bad and caused such an epic fail that the players and fans have every right to still be upset and torn about it. The biggest crime is nobody was held accountable for it. Sorry, but somebody needed to go for a failure of that magnitude. If somebody did get canned, the players might have moved past it, but here we are 2 years removed from it and its still causing ripples.

Any play called that failed would have brought the same reaction, any play called that worked would have been praised.
The call was fine, I just didn't work that time... get on with your life...

 

[Siouxhawk]

I don't often agree with Nash but he is 100% spot on here. Our vets have never gotten over that play. They lay it on the line year after year and play after play. They were let down by the coaching at the most crucial moment in the most important game of that season. There are no guarantees that they will ever get another chance. They know this and have not been able to get over it. Someone should have been held accountable and canned. That didn't happen. They know who is responsible and haven't forgotten. Spin it all you want. The results are obvious on the field and in the locker room. I played college ball. As a player, even at the college level, you know when the coaches screw up. Our coach (which one?) screwed up at the worst possible moment. What will be interesting will be when these players retire and are truly free to speak their minds. Then we will find out for sure what happened. Until then, you can say what you wish. The results speak for themselves.

And as I replied to you before, if we have players who's sense of self worth and ego are that fragile, I wouldn't want them on our team. And for the record, I believe we DON'T have players like that on our roster.

I would be interested to see which players hang onto this kind of resentment as your conspiracy theory suggests. The obvious example would be Sherman, but he's never come close to besmirching a coach. He had his little tirade about throwing from the 1, but that more or less backfired on him.

And I'll be looking for those post-retirement comments too. My opinion is that these players will be saying that playing for Pete and his staff wound up being the best days of their pro careers. Well, maybe not Percy.

 

[semiahmoo]

I don't often agree with Nash but he is 100% spot on here. Our vets have never gotten over that play. They lay it on the line year after year and play after play. They were let down by the coaching at the most crucial moment in the most important game of that season. There are no guarantees that they will ever get another chance. They know this and have not been able to get over it. Someone should have been held accountable and canned. That didn't happen. They know who is responsible and haven't forgotten. Spin it all you want. The results are obvious on the field and in the locker room. I played college ball. As a player, even at the college level, you know when the coaches screw up. Our coach (which one?) screwed up at the worst possible moment. What will be interesting will be when these players retire and are truly free to speak their minds. Then we will find out for sure what happened. Until then, you can say what you wish. The results speak for themselves.

Well said. The residual trauma of that damn play lingers for sure.

The team has felt off ever since and as you just said, the results speak for themselves. Hawks have never been a legit threat to win a SB since then.

 

[scutterhawk]

I don't often agree with Nash but he is 100% spot on here. Our vets have never gotten over that play. They lay it on the line year after year and play after play. They were let down by the coaching at the most crucial moment in the most important game of that season. There are no guarantees that they will ever get another chance. They know this and have not been able to get over it. Someone should have been held accountable and canned. That didn't happen. They know who is responsible and haven't forgotten. Spin it all you want. The results are obvious on the field and in the locker room. I played college ball. As a player, even at the college level, you know when the coaches screw up. Our coach (which one?) screwed up at the worst possible moment. What will be interesting will be when these players retire and are truly free to speak their minds. Then we will find out for sure what happened. Until then, you can say what you wish. The results speak for themselves.

Well said. The residual trauma of that damn play lingers for sure.

The team has felt off ever since and as you just said, the results speak for themselves. Hawks have never been a legit threat to win a SB since then.

:roll: :roll: :roll: ^ ^ ^ BOTH QUITTERS ^ ^ ^ :roll: :roll: :roll:
Absolute NONSENSE

 

[nash72]

As for the infamous play, the execution of the play by the WR's was the bigger fail than the call itself IMO. But that's football. You move on and each year stands on it's own. It's disappointing that some of the players and fans cannot do that.

The call was so bad and caused such an epic fail that the players and fans have every right to still be upset and torn about it. The biggest crime is nobody was held accountable for it. Sorry, but somebody needed to go for a failure of that magnitude. If somebody did get canned, the players might have moved past it, but here we are 2 years removed from it and its still causing ripples.

Any play called that failed would have brought the same reaction, any play called that worked would have been praised.
The call was fine, I just didn't work that time... get on with your life...

Your wrong. I would have felt a whole lot better about that loss if we at least tried to run the ball and got stuffed or had RW roll out and try to make something happen. The called play didn't play to any of the teams strengths and to all of their weaknesses. That play expected our 5 foot QB to throw the ball into a congested area to our very worst WR while the defense already knew what the play was before it was even ran. It was an atrocious call.

Another example of a stupid play was the jump ball to Matthews when we should have been kicking a FG. Yeah it worked, but that doesn't excuse the play for being a bad one.

 

[chris98251]

I agree we hear much more about the loss then the win, seems like every time the Pats are on we hear it, seems like the playoffs and the Super Bowl this year we hear it again. Worst play call in history is where it is ranked, until we win another one it's what we are labeled with, players hear it, we hear it and the Mediots make sure we hear it.

I think it has a lot to do with two things, the league does not revere the Seahawks, second the League does not want to tarnish the throbbing Forehead's legacy or the Broncos with our dismantling of that team.

 

[semiahmoo]

As for the infamous play, the execution of the play by the WR's was the bigger fail than the call itself IMO. But that's football. You move on and each year stands on it's own. It's disappointing that some of the players and fans cannot do that.

The call was so bad and caused such an epic fail that the players and fans have every right to still be upset and torn about it. The biggest crime is nobody was held accountable for it. Sorry, but somebody needed to go for a failure of that magnitude. If somebody did get canned, the players might have moved past it, but here we are 2 years removed from it and its still causing ripples.

Any play called that failed would have brought the same reaction, any play called that worked would have been praised.
The call was fine, I just didn't work that time... get on with your life...

Your wrong. I would have felt a whole lot better about that loss if we at least tried to run the ball and got stuffed or had RW roll out and try to make something happen. The called play didn't play to any of the teams strengths and to all of their weaknesses. That play expected our 5 foot QB to throw the ball into a congested area to our very worst WR while the defense already knew what the play was before it was even ran. It was an atrocious call.

Another example of a stupid play was the jump ball to Matthews when we should have been kicking a FG. Yeah it worked, but that doesn't excuse the play for being a bad one.

Here is the headline from the Seattle Times:

Seahawks lost because of the worst call in Super Bowl history
The Seahawks blew a chance to make Super Bowl history with another improbable comeback because of an inexplicable decision to pass instead of handing the ball to Marshawn Lynch.

And here are Bruce Irvin's thoughts:

“We had it,” linebacker Bruce Irvin said. “I don’t understand how you don’t give it to the best back in the league on not even the 1-yard line. We were on the half-yard line, and we throw a slant. I don’t know what the offense had going on, what they saw. I just don’t understand.”

Anyone who says that single play has not had a residual negative impact that has since lingered isn't paying attention to this team - it hasn't been the same team since.

http://old.seattletimes.com/html/seahaw ... 02xml.html

 

[crosfam]

"be careful, you might get what you ask for"

"don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs"

"Don't over strategize" "Don't get too cute"

etc.

You just don't fire coaches for winning division titles and going to playoffs. it almost never works out. John Gruden won, but it was Dungy's team. Crazy talk. We hire a new coach when ours retires or we need to rebuild for real. Enjoy the ride, we should be very good for a while yet.

 

[semiahmoo]

"be careful, you might get what you ask for"

"don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs"

"Don't over strategize" "Don't get too cute"

etc.

You just don't fire coaches for winning division titles and going to playoffs. it almost never works out. John Gruden won, but it was Dungy's team. Crazy talk. We hire a new coach when ours retires or we need to rebuild for real. Enjoy the ride, we should be very good for a while yet.

Not talking about firing Pete. Talking about Pete deciding to move on if this year is as difficult as the last. He will ultimately decide when his time is up within the confines of his current contract. I see him calling it a day unless things get turned around. He looked burnt out for much of last season.

Hoping he gets his mojo back and the Hawks have a great 2017.

 

[Jville]

I think your wrong about Pete Carroll

He's coming off a 10-5-1 NFL West Championship.

That's pretty good for a program that purged much of it's running back corps and offensive line. Carried 15 rookies on opening day. Lost a good deal of it's defensive depth. And is now looking to turn over the defensive side of things in this its second year of up tempo roster churn.

Pete Carroll and company look rather energized and focused on putting together a 2017 team. I'm excited about the new wrinkles they have in store for us in 2017. It's gonna be a championship team with some great new looks. :2thumbs:

 

[lukerguy]

Most likely neither of these. :roll:

 

[c_hawkbob]

The idea that any sweeping changes are in order however is ludicrous. Our team is functioning at an elite level, why in the world would we step off the path we're on now?

Losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs two seasons in a row isnt playing at an elite level. The team is starting to get blown out by better teams now which never used to happen. The light at the end of the tunnel is starting to look dim on this current path.-

If those last two seasons were the extent of the story you'd have a valid point, but coming on the heels of back to back Super Bowl appearances they represent no more than to be expected variation in final outcomes.

Nobody goes to the SB every year. Not even the Patriots or the Steelers. being in the hunt every year, advancing in the playoffs every year, is as much as can reasonably be expected, even of elite organizations. Until you can point to more than two or three higher functioning organizations in the league than our own we will remain, by definition, elite.

 

[Mistashoesta]

Superbowl winning head coaches don't just grow on trees you know. Especially ones that see that playoffs regularly and haven't had a losing season since their first with the team.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs two seasons in a row isnt playing at an elite level.

Wow.

:34853_doh:

 

[hawknation2017]

Some of you sound like Jed York, complaining about failure if a particular season does not result in a championship. Winning a championship requires a certain amount of luck. But you also have to field a competitive team.

That's what Pete Carroll has done for us every year: built a competitive football team with the potential to compete for a championship. Of course, a championship is not guaranteed to happen in any given year. Injuries really hurt us this past season; yet, we still won our division and crushed the eventual champion in their house.

Since our 2nd-consecutive Super Bowl appearance, serious injuries have played a role in the last three outcomes. This off-season has gone well, at least so far, with pretty much every player returning and the focus on improving quality of depth, a la 2013. I'm as excited for this team as I have been since our Super Bowl victory.

 

[nash72]

The idea that any sweeping changes are in order however is ludicrous. Our team is functioning at an elite level, why in the world would we step off the path we're on now?

Losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs two seasons in a row isnt playing at an elite level. The team is starting to get blown out by better teams now which never used to happen. The light at the end of the tunnel is starting to look dim on this current path.-

If those last two seasons were the extent of the story you'd have a valid point, but coming on the heels of back to back Super Bowl appearances they represent no more than to be expected variation in final outcomes.

Nobody goes to the SB every year. Not even the Patriots or the Steelers. being in the hunt every year, advancing in the playoffs every year, is as much as can reasonably be expected, even of elite organizations. Until you can point to more than two or three higher functioning organizations in the league than our own we will remain, by definition, elite.

Let me make it clearer for you. Elite teams are teams that are expected and favored to go to the Superbowl. The Seahawks were definitely not that last season. The expectations of the team was exactly what you got, a 1st round home win against the Lions and a beating as soon as they hit the road. Nobody thought Seattle was a threat to go to the Superbowl last year and they weren't. If you did, you need to take the rose colored glasses off. Losing to the Rams 9-3 should tell you how elite this team was last season.

 

[AgentDib]

If we have a 2017 that's as bad or worse than 2016, I do think Pete will be giving serious consideration to moving that other foot out the door.

As bad as winning the division and a playoff game while our key players were injured? Heaven forbid!

 

[AgentDib]

Losing to the Rams 9-3 should tell you how elite this team was last season.

How boring is watching the NFL if you've only seen the games where the better team wins? You've missed so many great upsets over the years. Even the best teams look like hot garbage at times when outcomes do not go their way. See: 2013 Bucs/Hawks, 2013 Titans/Hawks, "We're on to Cincinnatti", 2006 Pats/Dolphins, 2014 Pack/Hawks off the top of my head.

Nobody thought Seattle was a threat to go to the Superbowl last year and they weren't. If you did, you need to take the rose colored glasses off.

That's just deterministic nonsense. You wouldn't pull your kids out of school if you heard a McDonalds cashier won the lottery, because we take outcomes influenced by randomness with a grain of salt. There is an enormous amount of randomness in NFL outcomes due to underlying complexity and it's good storytelling to over explain why outcomes occur the way they do but terrible rational analysis.

Surely you have the imagination to envision a 2016 season in which RW or ET does not get hurt, Haush does not miss a gimme OT field goal, or the vast array of other possibilities of which any single one occurring differently could have led to a home playoff game in the second round. Consider how many wildcard teams have won the Superbowl and how many #1 seeds have not even made it there. The NFL is great because it's unpredictable.

 

[nash72]

Losing to the Rams 9-3 should tell you how elite this team was last season.

How boring is watching the NFL if you've only seen the games where the better team wins? You've missed so many great upsets over the years. Even the best teams look like hot garbage at times when outcomes do not go their way. See: 2013 Bucs/Hawks, 2013 Titans/Hawks, "We're on to Cincinnatti", 2006 Pats/Dolphins, 2014 Pack/Hawks off the top of my head.

We're talking about elite teams here. Elite teams don't score 3 points against dumpster fire teams like the Rams.

Nobody thought Seattle was a threat to go to the Superbowl last year and they weren't. If you did, you need to take the rose colored glasses off.

That's just deterministic nonsense. You wouldn't pull your kids out of school if you heard a McDonalds cashier won the lottery, because we take outcomes influenced by randomness with a grain of salt. There is an enormous amount of randomness in NFL outcomes due to underlying complexity and it's good storytelling to over explain why outcomes occur the way they do but terrible rational analysis.

Surely you have the imagination to envision a 2016 season in which RW or ET does not get hurt, Haush does not miss a gimme OT field goal, or the vast array of other possibilities of which any single one occurring differently could have led to a home playoff game in the second round. Consider how many wildcard teams have won the Superbowl and how many #1 seeds have not even made it there. The NFL is great because it's unpredictable.

Yeah, I have the imagination that the team has won the Superbowl every single year, but that doesn't happen. Just like the majority of sports fans realized that the Seahawks were pretenders right around the Tampa game. It wasn't hard to see but yet so many here have trouble doing so.

 

[BostonBlackie]

As for the infamous play, the execution of the play by the WR's was the bigger fail than the call itself IMO. But that's football. You move on and each year stands on it's own. It's disappointing that some of the players and fans cannot do that.

The call was so bad and caused such an epic fail that the players and fans have every right to still be upset and torn about it. The biggest crime is nobody was held accountable for it. Sorry, but somebody needed to go for a failure of that magnitude. If somebody did get canned, the players might have moved past it, but here we are 2 years removed from it and its still causing ripples.

Look, enough of this, games don't come down to one play. For example, we didn't lose to the Giants twice because of those two end of game catches. We lost because we didn't put ourselves in position to absorb those plays.