Looks like Pete Ball is back on the Menu Boys

[LeaveLynchAlone]

Now use your eyes instead of looking at the boxscore. You see bad tackling, horrible pursuit angles, all while going against a dysfunctional offense that repeatedly shot itself in the foot.

Fade, do you honestly watch much football? Do you realize every game could be critiqued in the way you do, but the critique has no meaning as to the process or the product?

If your standard of play is perfection, then you are clearly following the wrong sport. Football is messy, full of poor execution, and bad bounces. Mistakes for the best regularly happen, that is actually what makes the game fun. The uncertainty, edge of your seat, snatching victory from the certain defeat.

That is why the former QB was so beloved here in the past and that is why Geno and the defense is gaining new appreciation now. The current iteration of the Seahawks is proving to be worth rooting for, exciting and fun.

The things that you complain about happen in every game for every team. If these things never happened, the game of football would be scoreless and pretty boring for most.

However much you believe that you are correct in the assumptions you ride so heavily, the simple fact is you really don't know any more than anyone. Even honest former professionals state that problems they see may be this reason or that reason, but they also make it clear that there are possibilities that they cannot attest to. Often the mistakes are literally the result of inches and not miles that you claim in exasperation.

You have no clue on assignments, the spot on the turf where someone slipped, the referee standing in the way of the play, the holding, the pick, the bird dropping a big one as the play is run, the communication on the field, on the sideline, in meeting, in practice and in the locker room....what you see in no way can be confidently stated as certainty as what you relentlessly claim to be seeing.

It's especially funny when you cherry pick plays and stats to support your assumptions, but the reality is you really don't know and just use your untrained eye and your ample free time to say what you think.

When the stats don't fit your narrative, wow like magic they are meaningless. When the team loses, Fade was right, as always!!! When the team wins, of course the results don't matter because, well, errrr Pete - missed tackles and angles and oh Pete. Results don't matter, it's the process.

What you do on behalf of an anti-Pete bias could be applied to every coach, trainer, player, or team chef. It is at times amazing to read what you believe in your bones, especially when your beliefs are quite easily countered by simply watching the game, listening to the players, coaches, and balanced media (often former local players).

As the Seahawks come together this year and outplay by far your expectations, you will hang on kicking and screaming - shifting the topic, making excuses, and using sleight of hand and misdirection to be correct. You will perhaps always be correct in your mind, but what you believe doesn't actually make it true for anyone but you.

This is a psychological issue and not a football analysis issue.

You are not about process at all. You are about:

23 Characteristics of a know-it-all personality - PsychMechanics

A know-it-all person is someone who thinks they know it all. They have strong opinions on almost everything and believe they’re right all the time. This

www.psychmechanics.com

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

This game was sad for me to see. I was hopeful for our offense and I've liked all of the things I've seen from the previous games. What I'm wondering is where did it go? It's like we had Schottenheimer back there calling the plays against the Cowboys in the playoffs. We ran just for the sake of running. We tried forcing the run when it clearly was not there.

We consistently put Geno Smith in bad 3rd and long situations which allowed the defense to pin their ears back. We also ran the same sort of route concepts we ran under Russell Wilson. A lot of long developing pass plays predicated on the deep pass. I feel like this sort of offense negates Geno Smith's strengths as a passer.

Geno Smith from what I've seen is a QB that really thrives off of establishing a rhythm. He lives and dies with the short and intermediate timing passes, and while he can throw deep -- his best asset is how he is able to methodically march the football down the field.

In our previous game we've used Geno Smith to set up the running game in typical west coast offense fashion. We still could run the ball, but we were smarter about it. Penny hardly ever ran into loaded boxes, and that was the case in the second half of last year as well. I don't like to see that the offense is falling back into some old habits/tendencies.

We won this game but this sort of offense will cost the Seahawks if we keep using it. The "I'm going to do regardless of what you're showing me" mentality needs to die. Our biggest runs came when we varied what we were doing. The runs up the middle into stacked boxes did nothing but put our offense into bad third down situations.

Our offense today put Geno Smith into a bad situations consistently and he was never able to get into a rhythm due to our playcalling.

I have an honest question for you Spin. Do you think the game would have been different if Russell Wilson was the QB? If yes, how so?

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Mixed blessing. Each time we win our higher draft choice takes a hit. Is it worth it.
Heck yeah, it's worth it, especially if it buys a week of peace from the downer crew.

Don’t worry about the draft. Seahawks can trade up with Bears and take anybody you want!

 

[seatownlowdown]

Fade, do you honestly watch much football? Do you realize every game could be critiqued in the way you do, but the critique has no meaning as to the process or the product?

If your standard of play is perfection, then you are clearly following the wrong sport. Football is messy, full of poor execution, and bad bounces. Mistakes for the best regularly happen, that is actually what makes the game fun. The uncertainty, edge of your seat, snatching victory from the certain defeat.

That is why the former QB was so beloved here in the past and that is why Geno and the defense is gaining new appreciation now. The current iteration of the Seahawks is proving to be worth rooting for, exciting and fun.

The things that you complain about happen in every game for every team. If these things never happened, the game of football would be scoreless and pretty boring for most.

However much you believe that you are correct in the assumptions you ride so heavily, the simple fact is you really don't know any more than anyone. Even honest former professionals state that problems they see may be this reason or that reason, but they also make it clear that there are possibilities that they cannot attest to. Often the mistakes are literally the result of inches and not miles that you claim in exasperation.

You have no clue on assignments, the spot on the turf where someone slipped, the referee standing in the way of the play, the holding, the pick, the bird dropping a big one as the play is run, the communication on the field, on the sideline, in meeting, in practice and in the locker room....what you see in no way can be confidently stated as certainty as what you relentlessly claim to be seeing.

It's especially funny when you cherry pick plays and stats to support your assumptions, but the reality is you really don't know and just use your untrained eye and your ample free time to say what you think.

When the stats don't fit your narrative, wow like magic they are meaningless. When the team loses, Fade was right, as always!!! When the team wins, of course the results don't matter because, well, errrr Pete - missed tackles and angles and oh Pete. Results don't matter, it's the process.

What you do on behalf of an anti-Pete bias could be applied to every coach, trainer, player, or team chef. It is at times amazing to read what you believe in your bones, especially when your beliefs are quite easily countered by simply watching the game, listening to the players, coaches, and balanced media (often former local players).

As the Seahawks come together this year and outplay by far your expectations, you will hang on kicking and screaming - shifting the topic, making excuses, and using sleight of hand and misdirection to be correct. You will perhaps always be correct in your mind, but what you believe doesn't actually make it true for anyone but you.

bingo

This is a psychological issue and not a football analysis issue.

You are not about process at all. You are about:

23 Characteristics of a know-it-all personality - PsychMechanics

A know-it-all person is someone who thinks they know it all. They have strong opinions on almost everything and believe they’re right all the time. This

www.psychmechanics.com

1. They’re insecure​

A know-it-all person is fundamentally insecure about who they are. Insecurity leads to inferiority, and inferiority to the development of a superiority complex. A know-it-all person thinks they’re superior in knowledge to everyone else.

2. They’re attention-seeking​

Be it due to birth order or how they were raised, a know-it-all person may have gotten used to being the center of attention. By dispensing their knowledge at the drop of a hat, they get a chance to be in the spotlight.

3. They’re narcissistic​

Superiority complex is the hallmark of narcissism. A know-it-all person is more covert in their narcissism. They hide it behind a trait that society values- being knowledgeable.

4. They’re impulsive​

The impulse to jump into conversations and inject their knowledge can be overwhelming for a know-it-all. They lack the self-control required to be patient and let others express their viewpoint.

5. They can’t read the room​

They’re so busy proving their superiority that they miss out on the non-verbal signals other people give. Mainly, they’ll miss the facial expressions of annoyance in others. As a result, they’re unaware that they’re being annoying.

6. Their ego is tied to their knowledge​

A know-it-all person may have built their entire identity around their knowledge. For instance, they may be a scholar or a professor. When you strongly identify with something, you inevitably attach your ego to it.

When that happens, you no longer gain knowledge for knowledge’s sake but to appear knowledgeable.

7. They don’t know they don’t know​

This is usually the case for newbies when they first get into a field. They gain some knowledge and think that’s all there is to know.

Known as the Dunning-Kruger effect, their lack of awareness that there’s more to know makes them think they know everything there’s to know.

8. They talk more, listen less​

Since talking is a way to show how knowledgeable you are, a know-it-all doesn’t miss an opportunity to talk. They jump into conversations and dish out their opinions even when nobody asks them to do so.

They have poor listening skills because listening means taking a break from dispensing knowledge and learning.

9. They’re overly attached to their opinions​

This wouldn’t be the case if their ego weren’t attached to their opinions. But it is, so they’re unwilling to change their views, even with contrary evidence.

10. They dominate conversations​

They try to dominate every conversation. They hardly let others speak because they have to do the important work of proving their knowledge. They’ll interrupt and change topics as they please.

They’ll steer conversations to topics they’re knowledgeable about or at least have the illusion they’re knowledgeable about.

11. They offer unsolicited advice and help​

Unsolicited advice is always annoying, but because a know-it-all person ignores social feedback, they keep offering it. They care more about being the superior person who can help versus actually helping.

So, their advice is often irrelevant and worthless. They’ll repeat generic advice they heard somewhere without bothering about the details and if it’s applicable to the recipient’s specific situation.

12. They show off their knowledge​

People usually show off what they identify with. There’s nothing wrong with identifying with your knowledge, but a know-it-all overdoes it. Again, it’s because their entire identity rests on the foundation of being knowledgeable. They’ve nothing else to brag about.

13. They fish for arguments​

A know-it-all person finds discussions and regular conversations boring. They thrive on arguments. They argue to win and prove themselves superior knowledge-wise versus finding the best possible solution or truth.

They seem to have a knack to turn even the slightest disagreement into an argument.

14. Disagreements threaten them​

It’s normal for humans to feel a bit uncomfortable when someone disagrees with them. But for a know-it-all, disagreement is akin to a personal attack. When you disagree with them, they immediately think of you as the enemy they need to defeat, kickstarting an argument.

15. Knowledgeable people threaten them​

To a know-it-all, people who know more than them are a massive threat to their ego. So are other know-it-all people. They avoid engaging with these people lest they’re exposed for not knowing as much as they claim to know.

16. They hate those who prove them wrong​

Nobody likes being proven wrong but a know-it-all loathes it and the person who does it. You haven’t led them to light if you correct a know-it-all or show them they’re mistaken; you’ve destroyed their world. They’ll despise you for taking away their primary or only ego-boosting source.

17. They can’t admit their mistakes​

Admitting mistakes and failures would mean they know less. Instead, they prefer blaming others for their mistakes.

18. They’re judgmental​

They’re quick to label those who disagree with them ‘stupid’ or ‘ignorant’.

19. They like correcting others​

They don’t like being corrected, but they like correcting others. There’s no harm in correcting others when they’re wrong, but a know-it-all person does it in a condescending and socially inappropriate way.

They’ll laugh with a superior tone and act as if you’re so dumb for making the mistake you did. They’ll publicly point out your failings because they want to humiliate you more than correct you.

20. They’re unteachable​

You feel like you can’t teach a know-it-all person anything because they’re so averse to learning. Being teachable would mean they don’t know it all, and it’s hard for them to be in that position.

21. They don’t stay in their lane​

Realistically speaking, you can’t become an expert in more than two areas, let alone be an expert on everything. A know-it-all person will give an opinion on subjects and topics they have no business giving opinions on.

They won’t stay in their lane and will pontificate on whatever’s trending. In addition, they disregard the opinions of actual experts who have dedicated years to studying an area.

22. They answer their own questions​

It’s weird, annoying, and funny at the same time. They’ll ask you a question and answer it themselves because they’re not really questioning you to hear your answer. They’re questioning to give themselves a chance to show off their knowledge.

23. They ramble on and on​

 

[sutz]

#23 sure seems appropriate, if a bit ironic.

 

[DarkVictory23]

I have an honest question for you Spin. Do you think the game would have been different if Russell Wilson was the QB? If yes, how so?

I'm not Spin, but I'll say this: I saw nothing from Geno today that I thought Russ could have or would have done better in this game at this stage in his career. Even on scrambles, I thought Geno did better with his legs than I expect from Russ right now.

The issue wasn't Geno's play, it was that our gameplan did not play to our strength as an offense, which is Geno's passing game. We needed to run consistently to keep Russ's passing game on target. With Geno, the opposite is true: His passing opens up the run game. Geno can hit underneath and deep. He doesn't need the running game to bring the safeties up to the line, he can pass himself into single high or zero deep coverage by tearing a team up underneath.

He can work the defense until they either are too spread out or overcommitted to pass rush, which is when he hands the ball off to KWIII for a 50 yard draw play or TD. It's exactly what happened on the one drive we had with a touchdown.


We NEEDED to run our offense like this for Russ to some degree but it's not necessary for Smith and in fact is the opposite of what we should be doing. Again, I don't know if this was a response to the fact that Arizona kept bringing extra pressure and the thought was this might slow them down, but it wasn't working. What did work was when we gave it to Geno and told him to hit quick passes.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I have an honest question for you Spin. Do you think the game would have been different if Russell Wilson was the QB? If yes, how so?

The statline was right around something I would have expected from Russ last year. Several things would have likely been different though:

Wilson has been hesitant to pull the trigger on running. In addition to this Geno is faster than Wilson now and more agile. Those rushing yards wouldn’t have happened under Russ.

I think that deep throw to DK in the end zone probably would’ve been made. That is the sort of throw Wilson thrives on.

We probably wouldn’t have as many third down conversions and red zone trips under 2021 Wilson. Geno made a few really nice throws on third down that I don’t think Wilson would have made.

My post was me being angry at the playcalling, not Geno. Especially since Geno is very good at those short timing routes. We were approaching the game the same way we were with Wilson under center. That is on the coordinators and Pete, not Geno. They didn’t give him the chance to get into a rhythm today.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

#23 sure seems appropriate, if a bit ironic.

I can own that one!

 

[olyfan63]

Wasn't exactly an inspiring game from Geno. One TD in five red zone trips isn't going to cut it most weeks.

In Shane Waldron's system they call 2 Plays in the huddle, a run, and a pass. Light box you run, stacked box, you throw.

They had been doing this and people were freaking out because the Seahawks were throwing it more than they were running it to start the season, but it's smart. Leading to the #1 DVOA Offense in the league.

In the Cardinals game they went away from that. Repeatedly running into loaded boxes on 1st down, and having Geno hold the ball looking for the big play down the field. Sound familiar?

Pete Ball is back!

Thank you Fade, for pointing that out about Waldron's system, that the call is (a similar look) run or pass depending on how stacked the box is. First time I've heard that. Isn't it awesome to see the return of Pete Ball on the defensive side, getting clutch stops and multiple turnovers? Going forward, I sure do hope we see more Shane-Ball than Pete Ball on the offensive side. I like Shane's "exploit the most favorable matchup" approach way better than the old Pete's "impose our will" crap

Rat, thank you for pointing out that stat, Geno one TD in 5 red zone trips, classic game manager stats. After all, the Ravens won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer at QB,. After Dilfer's sparklingly average game-manager performance in that game, the Ravens cut him at the start of the next season. Geno did take several red-zone sacks, but IIRC, to his credit, they didn't take us out of FG range. Geno has had us in position to win every game except the 49er game.

 

[Smellyman]

Geno played real well under constant duress. This is the first game where Cross and Lucas both struggled. Vance Joseph is a good coach and always gives the Seahawk O fits. They gave the Oline a ton of looks and really confused them at times.

Geno surviving that with no turnovers was pretty huge. This will be a great tape for them to watch and learning experience for the whole Oline.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

The statline was right around something I would have expected from Russ last year. Several things would have likely been different though:

Wilson has been hesitant to pull the trigger on running. In addition to this Geno is faster than Wilson now and more agile. Those rushing yards wouldn’t have happened under Russ.

I think that deep throw to DK in the end zone probably would’ve been made. That is the sort of throw Wilson thrives on.

We probably wouldn’t have as many third down conversions and red zone trips under 2021 Wilson. Geno made a few really nice throws on third down that I don’t think Wilson would have made.

My post was me being angry at the playcalling, not Geno. Especially since Geno is very good at those short timing routes. We were approaching the game the same way we were with Wilson under center. That is on the coordinators and Pete, not Geno. They didn’t give him the chance to get into a rhythm today.

Arizona in recent years has often played us this way. But I think Geno helped us win a game that Russell very likely would have lost.

Approaching every game as if we should be scoring 30+, not punting and running for 180 is not particularly realistic. Of course it's fun to win big, but much of what happens in any game is dictated by how the other team is playing.

I get frustrated by the running into the middle with regularity as well, especially when it seems like there is enough space to bounce things outside, but sometimes there are reasons that are not always easy to identify - sometimes it's poor execution and other times it may be deliberate to set something else up.

This felt a little ugly at times, but short of a major miscue on special teams, this game was under control from start to finish.

My confidence is building because good teams win ugly games and this wasn't that ugly and we did win. The offense bested the competition by 10. What is there to worry about?

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

Geno played real well under constant duress. This is the first game where Cross and Lucas both struggled. Vance Joseph is a good coach and always gives the Seahawk O fits. They gave the Oline a ton of looks and really confused them at times.

Geno surviving that with no turnovers was pretty huge. This will be a great tape for them to watch and learning experience for the whole Oline.

This is a voice of reason.

This makes much more sense than the play calls suddenly changed because Pete was whispering in Waldren's ear demanding "PETEBALL-PETEBALL-PETEBALL".

 

[olyfan63]

Geno played real well under constant duress. This is the first game where Cross and Lucas both struggled. Vance Joseph is a good coach and always gives the Seahawk O fits. They gave the Oline a ton of looks and really confused them at times.

Geno surviving that with no turnovers was pretty huge. This will be a great tape for them to watch and learning experience for the whole Oline.

To my mind, Vance Joseph was the DC who first exposed Russell Wilson on national TV in that fugly 6-6 tie, the formula that includes using 2-High shell, which Russell cannot read. Jeff Fisher (who was his DC?) exposed Russell first, but somehow the rest of the NFL wasn't paying attention, or assumed that it was all about having DL talent that included Aaron Donald and Robert Quinn, but Vance Joseph saw it was the scheme as much as the talent.

So the Vance Joseph angle makes total sense, and now he has "exposed" Geno. Now every team that has a couple JJ Watt level talents in their DL is going to have the formula for holding Geno and the Hawks to 5 scoring drives per game. Just glad AZ doesn't still have Calais Campbell. 5 scoring drives, and a 100-yard rusher, with ZERO turnovers. Pete-Ball FTW on this day.

 

[toffee]

I'm not Spin, but I'll say this: I saw nothing from Geno today that I thought Russ could have or would have done better in this game at this stage in his career. Even on scrambles, I thought Geno did better with his legs than I expect from Russ right now.

The issue wasn't Geno's play, it was that our gameplan did not play to our strength as an offense, which is Geno's passing game. We needed to run consistently to keep Russ's passing game on target. With Geno, the opposite is true: His passing opens up the run game. Geno can hit underneath and deep. He doesn't need the running game to bring the safeties up to the line, he can pass himself into single high or zero deep coverage by tearing a team up underneath.

He can work the defense until they either are too spread out or overcommitted to pass rush, which is when he hands the ball off to KWIII for a 50 yard draw play or TD. It's exactly what happened on the one drive we had with a touchdown.


We NEEDED to run our offense like this for Russ to some degree but it's not necessary for Smith and in fact is the opposite of what we should be doing. Again, I don't know if this was a response to the fact that Arizona kept bringing extra pressure and the thought was this might slow them down, but it wasn't working. What did work was when we gave it to Geno and told him to hit quick passes.

Russ and Geno had similar 40 time at their respective combines, with Russ 0.03 sec faster, but both were 4.5 guys. At this point, with Russ looking quite chubby and got something around his waist, and Geno looked unchanged, I won't be surprised that Geno is faster than Russ at this point.

 

[nanomoz]

I have no problem with Pete ball when the defense shows up. It just hasn't so often in recent years.

 

[Spohawks]

In Shane Waldron's system they call 2 Plays in the huddle, a run, and a pass. Light box you run, stacked box, you throw.

They had been doing this and people were freaking out because the Seahawks were throwing it more than they were running it to start the season, but it's smart. Leading to the #1 DVOA Offense in the league.

In the Cardinals game they went away from that. Repeatedly running into loaded boxes on 1st down, and having Geno hold the ball looking for the big play down the field. Sound familiar?

Pete Ball is back!

A lot of hate on Fade in the comments but lets look at what he said.

The hawks ran the ball when the box was stacked.
Did that happen? Heck yes it did! Is it a smart move when you have a pass option on the table? Freak no!

Geno has no business passing past 15 yards. How many receptions vs incompletions does he have this year over 15 yards. His comfort zone is 7 yards.

Something changed this game on offence, was it Pete trying to get his name attached to this high flying offence with his own twist?

I don't know to many other people who has the power to make that move.

 

[Smellyman]

Russ and Geno had similar 40 time at their respective combines, with Russ 0.3 sec faster, but both were 4.5 guys. At this point, with Russ looking quite chubby and got something around his waist, and Geno looked unchanged, I won't be surprised that Geno is faster than Russ at this point.

0.03 faster.

 

[toffee]

0.03 faster.

You are CORRECT!!! me stand corrected

 

[keasley45]

I am process based, not results based.

Then you should be aware that the process for getting your defense to play better involves ball control offense. And that the process for getting your rookie running back up to speed involves getting him as many touches as you can and NOT overly relying on him in sophisticated pass-pro situations.

The Hawks shifted gears this game because they NEEDED to and could afford to. They can obviously play long ball. No problem. And in this game they had Tds traded for field goals due to poor execution and not conservative playcalling... plus, a huge play to DK negated by a batted ball.

This game is exactly what the TEAM needed. Confidence building. Chemistry building.

Those things are also part of the 'process' of building a complete, winning team and culture.

 

[Scout]

Then you should be aware that the process for getting your defense to play better involves ball control offense. And that the process for getting your rookie running back up to speed involves getting him as many touches as you can and NOT overly relying on him in sophisticated pass-pro situations.

The Hawks shifted gears this game because they NEEDED to and could afford to. They can obviously play long ball. No problem, and in this game had Tds traded for field goals due to poor execution and nor conservative playcalling and a huge play to DK negated by a batted ball.

This game is exactly what the TEAM needed. Confidence building. Chemistry building.

Those things are also part of the 'process' of a building a complete, winning team and culture.

Football is a team game.

That is the take away from what we have seen from the 2022 Hawks so far. I like that I have seen the offense show they can shift to ball control on the ground or through the air. Or, setting up the run with the pass or setting up the pass with runs.

This makes it interesting week to week because the Hawks can come in with a new game plan each week and not be predictable.