Enthusiasm…dissipation

[ivotuk]

Lots of banter about how Geno ran things smoother and how much better the team would be.

Wuuuttt? NOBODY said that. I never even saw a hint of that! This is an invented topic, pulling things out of the air, then responding to them as if they were fact. Very odd.

 

[GemCity]

Wuuuttt? NOBODY said that. I never even saw a hint of that! This is an invented topic, pulling things out of the air, then responding to them as if they were fact. Very odd.

There’s a search function in these forums. Try it sometime.

You’re wrong.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

12 DAYS!

 

[scutterhawk]

I understand your opinions which seem to be largely based upon limited recent information from training camp, limited preseason action, and the 3+ games from last year.

Will you not watch games assuming your belief is correct? Or will you watch to confirm you beliefs? Why are you so certain about Geno's ceiling?

LOL It's called 'Cynicism', 'Oh Woe is Me', Glass Half Empty, Too Old For a Binky, Where's My Jug? Syndrome LOLOLOL

 

[TwistedHusky]

I guess we will find out.

We don't have a game this week. Probably accounts for the lack of enthusiasm.

Other years, cut day was important - because it was guys that would fill important holes that would be important if we wanted a good playoff slot. Or important depth.
(Remember the absolute freakout over a punt returner vs Procise? Then we had no punt returner all year and Carroll was putting ET and Sherman out there for returns...so everyone was praying they just didn't get injured and rethinking that whole Procise thing?)

We don't expect the playoffs so there really is no sense of urgency. Cut day is anticlimatic. We lost Swain. And our WR depth actually looks crappy, so that will potentially be a problem for us midway through the year, especially if a starting WR has an injury for a game or two. But is anyone really that concerned?
What about LB depth? It doesn't look great and nobody seems to know how to tackle but are we freaking out about defenders being released? Coleman, even though you can never have too many DBs?? Not really.

Now, if this place looks like this the Wed before the game against Denver? Then we have a problem. But there really isn't much to care about right now. We just have to wait for the 1st game which is over a week away.

 

[DarkVictory23]

There were a lot of folks geeked when we traded you know who. Lots of banter about how Geno ran things smoother and how much better the team would be.

Drew Lock support? Check!

Retooling…not rebuilding!!

The tone has shifted.

I don’t take much out of preseason and I imagine most of you are the same way. With that said, what’s changed?

If anything, Geno has looked way better than I thought he would. Lock is still getting comfortable in a new system.

I think part of what's changed is that those of us who were fine and/or satisfied to see the team finally move on from a situation that had obviously reached a point of diminishing returns have just gotten tired of the way the discussion goes?

For example, I don't think anyone legitimately thinks or thought Geno was better than Russ. I do think there is a chance for our offense to be smoother simply because it was obvious the last two seasons (more?) that Russ was fighting against the gameplan. There is simply no talent evaluation in this assessment though, but this discussion always spirals into some strawman argument about how great we must think Geno is. All things being equal, a QB who is on the same page as his coach and OC is better than one who's not. How did this become controversial?

Also, we have had WAY too much hand wringing over how the team looked in the preseason. It borders on the ridiculous. I understand, that like me, many folks paid way more attention to the preseason than a typical year (I typically watch zero preseason games, but watched all three this year). The problem is you CANNOT assess the overall talent of a team from pre-season performance. Outside of a few attempts to understand the relative talent of a few players on the bubble or getting an idea of how NFL ready your rookies are (or, in the case this year, a QB battle that may or may not have been competitive), you can't make any predictions for how the rest of the year will go off of preseason games.

And yet, exactly how many preseason game threads can you click into without dire prognostications for the upcoming season because of this or that failing of a player who may or may not have even made our final roster in a game that doesn't matter?


I'm still enthusiastic about this season. Our defense (which was better than given credit for last year) seems to have improved. Our offensive line as well. We continue to have very talented playmakers on offense. I still think there is a chance for us to have a better season this year than last. Is losing Russ and (in my book, perhaps more importantly) Bobby going to doom us to a 'rebuilding' year? Maybe, but if that's the case we're off to a good start in that regard as well and we'll be in a good spot to fill our remaining holes in the draft next year.

So, my enthusiasm for the season remains, but my enthusiasm to have the same discussion with the same folks posting the same mostly uninteresting and unnuanced takes about why the Seahawks are doomed forever because we kept 'Old Man Pete' instead of 'St. Russ' has definitely dissipated.

Frankly, I just need the real season to start.

 

[scutterhawk]

So, you're saying this is going to be a good team? You want to edge out on that ledge? If so, you're the one making fantastic claims. Not me.

It's much more likely that he couldn't publicly acknowledge the situation. Whether it be ego, appeasing ownership, denial, etc.

I see it as Pete 'The Competitor' displaying a 'Determination' to field a winning Team for my Seattle Seahawks, while some (because if y'all's hatred for ONE MAN) are Mired in Negativity.
I TRUST Pete's judgement & Knowledge of the game WAAAAAAAAAAY MORE than I do a bunch of Keyboard Jockeys.
Now where'd the Old Lady hide my Whiskey?

 

[AgentDib]

Who cares what the FO's moves are termed? I've never understood fans needing it called something... A "rebuild"? Why do you need it called that specifically, to sooth hurt fan feelings or something? The FO will do what it takes to field the best team for the future, maybe well beyond this season's record. They don't want to lose, regardless of what are the fans' often ignorant opinions. (ignorant here meant only as "not knowing the whole story")

That seems to be a double standard common with every fan base. Most acknowledge that other head coaches are just playing the game when being vague about plans and injuries, or putting motivation over reality. Some, however, get offended when their own coach isn't publicly airing all of the secrets or being appropriately pessimistic.

 

[AgentDib]

It's much more likely that he couldn't publicly acknowledge the situation. Whether it be ego, appeasing ownership, denial, etc.

Managing expectations may be a decent personal strategy. Surely you don't think that's a good team strategy?

It is amusing to consider how those sort of demotivational team speeches could play out.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Anyone that is a fan of the Mariners knows how to manage expectations. This might be their best season in almost a quarter of a century, certainly the last 20 years.
And they are not even leading the division...

Seahawk fans know football. We know you have to ratchet expectations back if you don't have a QB.
We don't need it sugar-coated or false optimism.

 

[GemCity]

I think part of what's changed is that those of us who were fine and/or satisfied to see the team finally move on from a situation that had obviously reached a point of diminishing returns have just gotten tired of the way the discussion goes?

For example, I don't think anyone legitimately thinks or thought Geno was better than Russ. I do think there is a chance for our offense to be smoother simply because it was obvious the last two seasons (more?) that Russ was fighting against the gameplan. There is simply no talent evaluation in this assessment though, but this discussion always spirals into some strawman argument about how great we must think Geno is. All things being equal, a QB who is on the same page as his coach and OC is better than one who's not. How did this become controversial?

Also, we have had WAY too much hand wringing over how the team looked in the preseason. It borders on the ridiculous. I understand, that like me, many folks paid way more attention to the preseason than a typical year (I typically watch zero preseason games, but watched all three this year). The problem is you CANNOT assess the overall talent of a team from pre-season performance. Outside of a few attempts to understand the relative talent of a few players on the bubble or getting an idea of how NFL ready your rookies are (or, in the case this year, a QB battle that may or may not have been competitive), you can't make any predictions for how the rest of the year will go off of preseason games.

And yet, exactly how many preseason game threads can you click into without dire prognostications for the upcoming season because of this or that failing of a player who may or may not have even made our final roster in a game that doesn't matter?


I'm still enthusiastic about this season. Our defense (which was better than given credit for last year) seems to have improved. Our offensive line as well. We continue to have very talented playmakers on offense. I still think there is a chance for us to have a better season this year than last. Is losing Russ and (in my book, perhaps more importantly) Bobby going to doom us to a 'rebuilding' year? Maybe, but if that's the case we're off to a good start in that regard as well and we'll be in a good spot to fill our remaining holes in the draft next year.

So, my enthusiasm for the season remains, but my enthusiasm to have the same discussion with the same folks posting the same mostly uninteresting and unnuanced takes about why the Seahawks are doomed forever because we kept 'Old Man Pete' instead of 'St. Russ' has definitely dissipated.

Frankly, I just need the real season to start.

Eloquently stated.

I’m a bit excited. I enjoyed your response so much that I went back and read a lot of your previous posts.

We may be in for a surprise this season if your game manager theory works out. No reason we can’t win at least 7 this year.

Thankfully, the season is about to start. Then the nonsense can be put to bed.

 

[DarkVictory23]

I think there is a decent chance we're in for a surprise. I mean, our biggest issue last year was the fact that our QB was playing not just from a different page than the rest of the team, but frankly, a different book. It got to the point where even Pete--who had historically been very protective of #3--vocalized some of his frustrations.

That makes the prediction business for this upcoming season a very challenging issue. It's not as simple as 'well, Russ is (insert whatever descriptor you feel is appropriate) better than Geno, so we are going to be this equivalent amount worse as a team'. Unfortunately, that is as far as most of the doom-and-gloom prognosticating goes.

For better or worse, we're going to be a different offense, not just one with a different QB. Geno Smith is NOT going to be trying to be a (decidedly) worse version of Russell Wilson. I think Geno is self-aware enough to know that his starting spot on the team is going to be based on being the best complimentary QB to the game plan that Carroll and Waldron are putting together.

This is part of what's exciting for me. We're going to see, to whatever degree of execution our offense is capable of, a coherent offensive gameplan. Russell winging it was exciting right up until it became very, very frustrating. I look forward to, at the very least, experiencing a different type of frustration watching the Seahawks this year.

And, again, if this doesn't work--whether it's because the plan itself is faulty or because we're simply still a few pieces of shy of being able to implement it--a bad season for us sets us up for an exciting draft next year.

(I'm personally hoping for a good season for us combined with a terrible season for Denver, setting us up for both a fun season AND an exciting draft).

 

[sc85sis]

So, you're saying this is going to be a good team? You want to edge out on that ledge? If so, you're the one making fantastic claims. Not me.

It's much more likely that he couldn't publicly acknowledge the situation. Whether it be ego, appeasing ownership, denial, etc.

Or maybe you don't say that because you don't want your players to think you've given up on them.

 

[GemCity]

I think there is a decent chance we're in for a surprise. I mean, our biggest issue last year was the fact that our QB was playing not just from a different page than the rest of the team, but frankly, a different book. It got to the point where even Pete--who had historically been very protective of #3--vocalized some of his frustrations.

That makes the prediction business for this upcoming season a very challenging issue. It's not as simple as 'well, Russ is (insert whatever descriptor you feel is appropriate) better than Geno, so we are going to be this equivalent amount worse as a team'. Unfortunately, that is as far as most of the doom-and-gloom prognosticating goes.

For better or worse, we're going to be a different offense, not just one with a different QB. Geno Smith is NOT going to be trying to be a (decidedly) worse version of Russell Wilson. I think Geno is self-aware enough to know that his starting spot on the team is going to be based on being the best complimentary QB to the game plan that Carroll and Waldron are putting together.

This is part of what's exciting for me. We're going to see, to whatever degree of execution our offense is capable of, a coherent offensive gameplan. Russell winging it was exciting right up until it became very, very frustrating. I look forward to, at the very least, experiencing a different type of frustration watching the Seahawks this year.

And, again, if this doesn't work--whether it's because the plan itself is faulty or because we're simply still a few pieces of shy of being able to implement it--a bad season for us sets us up for an exciting draft next year.

(I'm personally hoping for a good season for us combined with a terrible season for Denver, setting us up for both a fun season AND an exciting draft).

Personally, I liked Russ but I don’t necessarily disagree with your statements.

I’m excited about the future.

Best case scenario imo (as you stated) is we are competitive, Denver craps the bed, our rookies develop, and we snatch our QB next year. I do lack faith in Geno and/or Lock but, we can make progress no matter the case.

 

[nanomoz]

Or maybe you don't say that because you don't want your players to think you've given up on them.

Do I seriously need to link things he said from 2010 to 2012 about building the roster, getting younger, getting faster, etc.?

C'mon people.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

1-15 OR 15-1, I won't love the team any less. I might just drink more

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

So, you're saying this is going to be a good team? You want to edge out on that ledge? If so, you're the one making fantastic claims. Not me.

It's much more likely that he couldn't publicly acknowledge the situation. Whether it be ego, appeasing ownership, denial, etc.

I believe the Seahawks are much better than the 3 -5 win uncompetitive team that some are claiming here. I am not on any sort of ledge though. I will be surprised if that happens, but if it does I'll look to understand why and be okay with it.

This is all about mindset for me and the mindset of the Seahawks now is that of a team with competitiveness in everything that happens.

This is simply about the optimist vs. pessimist. Some here see things through a lens of pessimism and that is fine for those who do. This negativity, assuming the hyperbolic worst, does not make a great deal of sense to me but you are free to wail to the moon about the failures at every turn if you choose so choose.

I enjoy the culture Pete has built here and realize the power of a positive mindset, competition, effort, practice and accountability is an effective way to find success as a franchise.

Pete believes the Seahawks will compete and win. That's his mindset and I agree with him. Those who are placing nefarious intentions in all things Pete Carroll are projecting something about themselves more than anything about Pete.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

At the minimum, we are going to see something different and new. And watching a LOT of really good young players develop. I might not be a huge Pete fan these days, but he absolutely can coach up a young player.

 

[flv2]

Who cares what the FO's moves are termed? I've never understood fans needing it called something... A "rebuild"? Why do you need it called that specifically, to sooth hurt fan feelings or something?...

Woah! The issue isn't that the fans are saying the 2022 season is a rebuild season, it's that the HC is specifically saying that it isn't.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And what is a coach supposed to say? We are gonna' suck this year, but we're gonna' do our best.