Wisniewski visiting Seattle

[CPHawk]

Raider fans don't seem to think he's very good. And to give up a 3rd for him, seems like a steep price. But maybe he is better than what the fans think, and other teams who have obviously not thought he was worth 3mill a year and a draft pick.

 

[Ozzy]

I could be wrong but I think most of the metric sites graded him fairly highly in pass protection and overall. Saw it mentioned in twitter but I'll have to look into it.

 

[Popeyejones]

I could be wrong but I think most of the metric sites graded him fairly highly in pass protection and overall. Saw it mentioned in twitter but I'll have to look into it.

As I recall they're very inconsistent across sites, with some saying he did well last year and others saying he did very poorly.

This could also be because without knowing schemes of all the lineman positions Center is really subjective and really hard to grade unless you have a 3-4 NT always lined up on top of them.


If anything, I'm surprised at how little of a market there seems to have been for him so far, and rumors of 3 million py raise a lot of questions for me too.

I've thought of him as a good center, but that's based on reputation, not focused watching. So far the market (which IS based on focused watching) seems to be treating him as otherwise.

With stories leaking that the Graham trade started as the Saints inquiring about Unger, that raises questions for me too about Wisniewski (if the Saints wanted a center why weren't they going after him; they'd rather give up Jimmy Graham for the oft-injured Unger? -- I think the safer assumption is that they're not just incredibly stupid).

 

[getnasty]

This guy was basically drafted by the Raiders because his uncle played for them and the family name is well respected within that org... and they've decided to let him walk to spend $8m on a replacement.

That bothers me a bit.

The Raiders havent been know for making wise choices, so dont let this bother you to much.

 

[MysterMatt]

This guy was basically drafted by the Raiders because his uncle played for them and the family name is well respected within that org... and they've decided to let him walk to spend $8m on a replacement.

That bothers me a bit.

The Raiders havent been know for making wise choices, so dont let this bother you to much.

The Raiders have a ton of cash so it is a fair concern. Perhaps it's a part of the "out with the old, in with the new" strategy that comes with a new coach. Who knows? I trust John, Pete, and Cable to evaluate Wiz better than I can.

 

[Ozzy]

I could be wrong but I think most of the metric sites graded him fairly highly in pass protection and overall. Saw it mentioned in twitter but I'll have to look into it.

As I recall they're very inconsistent across sites, with some saying he did well last year and others saying he did very poorly.

This could also be because without knowing schemes of all the lineman positions Center is really subjective and really hard to grade unless you have a 3-4 NT always lined up on top of them.


If anything, I'm surprised at how little of a market there seems to have been for him so far, and rumors of 3 million py raise a lot of questions for me too.

I've thought of him as a good center, but that's based on reputation, not focused watching. So far the market (which IS based on focused watching) seems to be treating him as otherwise.

With stories leaking that the Graham trade started as the Saints inquiring about Unger, that raises questions for me too about Wisniewski (if the Saints wanted a center why weren't they going after him; they'd rather give up Jimmy Graham for the oft-injured Unger? -- I think the safer assumption is that they're not just incredibly stupid).

I get what you're saying and you may very well be right. On the other hand the Saints GM has a terrible track record and isn't considered a very good GM. League personnel have questioned this trade and wondered why the Saints did it calling it very lopsided.

Another point of view on the lack of attention for Wis might be because the center position isn't as highly valued as some on this board have valued it. There's a reason very few get drafted in the first round and never in the top half of it. We also had 3 of the 4 teams left at the end starting low level rookies or undrafted guys with NE, GB and Seattle. Maybe the market is bad because its just not a valued position? I do think Unger is being overvalued here somewhat especially when considering he is on the downward slope, would probably have been cut after this year and his injury history.

I could be 100% wrong, I really have no idea just throwing stuff out there. I'm also a little biased because I think the Graham trade was a complete steal so I'm a little slanted. lol

 

[onanygivensunday]

Raider fans don't seem to think he's very good. And to give up a 3rd for him, seems like a steep price.

If we sign Wis at anywhere close to $3M per year, that would cancel out one of our FAs signing for a comparable amount per year.

The 3rd we'll get next year from Maxwell signing with the Eagles at $10M per year is NOT in jeopardy should we sign Wis.

 

[Popeyejones]

This guy was basically drafted by the Raiders because his uncle played for them and the family name is well respected within that org... and they've decided to let him walk to spend $8m on a replacement.

That bothers me a bit.

The Raiders havent been know for making wise choices, so dont let this bother you to much.

The Raiders have a ton of cash so it is a fair concern. Perhaps it's a part of the "out with the old, in with the new" strategy that comes with a new coach. Who knows? I trust John, Pete, and Cable to evaluate Wiz better than I can.

Yeah, I can't remember the last time theENGLISHseahawk and I agreed about something, but he does raise a good point, IMO.

Teams gets steals in FA every year of course, but they're regularly not the steals that fans expect to be steals (as they wouldn't be steals in the first place if they were).

With Wis, and just how it's looking so far, there are 32 organizations in the professional business of evaluating player talent. They can (and are regularly) wrong, of course, but I think the safe bet is to assume that on balance they know more than we do.

This is particularly true at a position like center, where as fans 99% of the time we're mostly going off of reputation.

It for these positions in particular that reputation bias also likely influences all of the subjective coding of football performance by the metric sites, which on the back-end use numbers to give the false impression of objectivity/accurate measurement. That they report their metrics down to the tenths and sometimes hundredths column make it pretty clear they're trying to sell us something -- a "4.88" grade looks imoressively "math-y", but pretending the measurement is accurate enough to present a meaninful difference between "4.88" and "4.9" (or even "5") is just total BS.

 

[Hyak]

He'd be a solid replacement with good upside given Cable's coaching. Of note, Wiseniewski was drafted in the offseason after Cable was fired as the Raiders HC but the system they ran was the same under Hue Jackson.

Unger had a cap number of 5.6 M for 2015 and 2016 so if they can get a similar talent (and they are at this point) for 2 or 3 M, it's a win. The fact that he's 25 is a real plus and he has starting experience at LG as well as C.

 

[pmedic920]

Call me crazy but you could almost look at the trade like this.

Unger and a 1st

For Graham, Wiz and a 4th.

For the price, that's sweetness.

 

[Scottemojo]

I just watched him for three games, with 2 common opponents, NE and STL. His pass pro is great, he knows his pass pro zone, is alert for help if no one is in his area.

His run blocking is technically sound, but you can see him struggle with bigger guys if he has to block one on one. More than once I saw him get walked back into a gap by a stronger player, and he is rarely as far down field blocking as we commonly saw Unger get. And he really struggled to get push in yard to go situations. I didn't see any bad snaps in the games I watched, his gun snaps look pretty crisp.

 

[McGruff]

I just watched him for three games, with 2 common opponents, NE and STL. His pass pro is great, he knows his pass pro zone, is alert for help if no one is in his area.

His run blocking is technically sound, but you can see him struggle with bigger guys if he has to block one on one. More than once I saw him get walked back into a gap by a stronger player, and he is rarely as far down field blocking as we commonly saw Unger get. And he really struggled to get push in yard to go situations. I didn't see any bad snaps in the games I watched, his gun snaps look pretty crisp.

Thanks Scott for taking the time to watch and report. Your report seems consistent with outside observations.

 

[marko358]

I just watched him for three games, with 2 common opponents, NE and STL. His pass pro is great, he knows his pass pro zone, is alert for help if no one is in his area.

His run blocking is technically sound, but you can see him struggle with bigger guys if he has to block one on one. More than once I saw him get walked back into a gap by a stronger player, and he is rarely as far down field blocking as we commonly saw Unger get. And he really struggled to get push in yard to go situations. I didn't see any bad snaps in the games I watched, his gun snaps look pretty crisp.

Thanks for the insight. Other than getting slightly manhandled, that analysis is somewhat encouraging. Perhaps Cable can get it into his head to continue moving down field to block.

 

[LickMyNuts]

It looks like Wisniewski's natural position is Guard. I think he could play Center or Guard for the Seahawks.

 

[HawkFan72]

This guy was basically drafted by the Raiders because his uncle played for them and the family name is well respected within that org... and they've decided to let him walk to spend $8m on a replacement.

That bothers me a bit.

Especially since the Raiders have a ton of money to burn. If he's really good and doesn't want a huge contract, the only reason the Raiders wouldn't re-sign him is that he isn't very good or he is a difficult personality and was causing problems. I can't think of other reasons.

 

[Hawkfan77]

25 years old and a great fit. A long-term investment, so you don't care as much about it hurting the comp pick equation.

No bigz on the comp pick. Wiz would be a long-term solution. Very much worth it.

No "bigz" on a probable 3rd rounder? I'm not sure I agree with that

If it means getting a starting center for the next 5 years?

You hope that's what it means. I'm just not sure he's as good as everyone claims he is. Some major red flags, but every sees that he's only 25, so he must be great. Like Scott said, he's very average so be careful about overpaying for average players especially when you're giving up a high draft pick

 

[Scottemojo]

This guy was basically drafted by the Raiders because his uncle played for them and the family name is well respected within that org... and they've decided to let him walk to spend $8m on a replacement.

That bothers me a bit.

Especially since the Raiders have a ton of money to burn. If he's really good and doesn't want a huge contract, the only reason the Raiders wouldn't re-sign him is that he isn't very good or he is a difficult personality and was causing problems. I can't think of other reasons.

Players wanting to exit Oakland is not new. Veldheer could not wait to get out last year.

 

[Popeyejones]

Call me crazy but you could almost look at the trade like this.

Unger and a 1st

For Graham, Wiz and a 4th.

For the price, that's sweetness.

The trade was already a really good one for the Hawks. You don't need to goose it by pretending Wisniewski was a part of it.

 

[HawkFan72]

This guy was basically drafted by the Raiders because his uncle played for them and the family name is well respected within that org... and they've decided to let him walk to spend $8m on a replacement.

That bothers me a bit.

Especially since the Raiders have a ton of money to burn. If he's really good and doesn't want a huge contract, the only reason the Raiders wouldn't re-sign him is that he isn't very good or he is a difficult personality and was causing problems. I can't think of other reasons.

Players wanting to exit Oakland is not new. Veldheer could not wait to get out last year.

I came back on here to add reason #3: Or he just doesn't want to play in Oakland. But you got it covered.

 

[marko358]

I came back on here to add reason #3: Or he just doesn't want to play in Oakland. But you got it covered.

This could be a big part of it. Being one of the worst 3 teams in the league every year plus having the absolute worst facilities by far has got to get old quick.