Why Russell is a winner/leader and Cam Newton is not

ctrcat

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I'm sorry for the other Panthers fan comment and it's true that you guys have won 3 in a row against us, the 2005 NFCCG, and are the current SB Champs. Congrats. You've got our number for now for sure.

But I wouldn't trade Cam for anyone. He'll be around for a decade+ in this league and he and our future is still extremely bright, and those inside the organization speak highly of Cam the teammate and person.

This was by no means our "all in year", and we may still host a playoff game.

Congrats on the win and for having an amazing QB and leader in Russ!! (I grew up in a Wolfpack family)
 
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ctrcat":3v4wny2m said:
I'm sorry for the other Panthers fan comment and it's true that you guys have won 3 in a row against us, the 2005 NFCCG, and are the current SB Champs. Congrats. You've got our number for now for sure.

But I wouldn't trade Cam for anyone. He'll be around for a decade+ in this league and he and our future is still extremely bright, and those inside the organization speak highly of Cam the teammate and person.

This was by no means our "all in year", and we may still host a playoff game.

Congrats on the win and for having an amazing QB and leader in Russ!! (I grew up in a Wolfpack family)

First and foremost, classy post congratulating us. As far as Cam is concerned I have thought this of a few former Hawk QB's but once we got Russell I saw the clear difference. I wish you luck with Cam but I just don't see "winner" when I watch him.
 

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seabowl":3p45nud5 said:
ctrcat":3p45nud5 said:
I'm sorry for the other Panthers fan comment and it's true that you guys have won 3 in a row against us, the 2005 NFCCG, and are the current SB Champs. Congrats. You've got our number for now for sure.

But I wouldn't trade Cam for anyone. He'll be around for a decade+ in this league and he and our future is still extremely bright, and those inside the organization speak highly of Cam the teammate and person.

This was by no means our "all in year", and we may still host a playoff game.

Congrats on the win and for having an amazing QB and leader in Russ!! (I grew up in a Wolfpack family)

First and foremost, classy post congratulating us. As far as Cam is concerned I have thought this of a few former Hawk QB's but once we got Russell I saw the clear difference. I wish you luck with Cam but I just don't see "winner" when I watch him.

Thanks and I assure you I have NO doubt I'd feel the same if I hadn't watched every game, spoke to people in the know, and even spoke to him once myself albeit briefly. He did win several games late last year and has had a great year so far this year, improving every year and trying to make chicken salad out of chicken chit with his OL and no speed WR. Cam fan or not though, he's not a finished product and only time will tell.
 

seahawkfreak

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HawKnPeppa":3t41r8ei said:
Yeah, it's a sad state of affairs for the other team when they want our OL, LMAO!
On another note, if slumping your shoulders on the sideline with a towel over your head is 'black enough,' I'll keep our 'Uncle Tom,' thank you!

Yes!!! :13: This needed to be said
 

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HawKnPeppa":2412aqo9 said:
Yeah, it's a sad state of affairs for the other team when they want our OL, LMAO!
On another note, if slumping your shoulders on the sideline with a towel over your head is 'black enough,' I'll keep our 'Uncle Tom,' thank you!

At least one person gets it.
Wilson wouldn't survive to halftime with our band of Ryan Kalil and the four UDFAs.
 

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hawksfansinceday1":2wwxlvsb said:
googoodan":2wwxlvsb said:
Cam's WRs do not bang his wife.
Beat your team the last 3 in a row. Beat in '06 in the NFCCG. RW has a Super Bowl win as do the Seahawks. Your team does not nor does your QB.

I'd have banned you for this comment btw, but then I wouldn't have had the pleasure of reminding you of all the FACTS I mentioned above so glad I'm not.

OK, next time I'll do what appears to be more acceptable and call a player on your team a "beyotch" instead.
 

Seanhawk

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googoodan":10onoepb said:
HawKnPeppa":10onoepb said:
Yeah, it's a sad state of affairs for the other team when they want our OL, LMAO!
On another note, if slumping your shoulders on the sideline with a towel over your head is 'black enough,' I'll keep our 'Uncle Tom,' thank you!

At least one person gets it.
Wilson wouldn't survive to halftime with our band of Ryan Kalil and the four UDFAs.

This is comical. Wilson is one of the few players in the world that could.
 
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googoodan":3sbhrdid said:
hawksfansinceday1":3sbhrdid said:
googoodan":3sbhrdid said:
Cam's WRs do not bang his wife.
Beat your team the last 3 in a row. Beat in '06 in the NFCCG. RW has a Super Bowl win as do the Seahawks. Your team does not nor does your QB.

I'd have banned you for this comment btw, but then I wouldn't have had the pleasure of reminding you of all the FACTS I mentioned above so glad I'm not.

OK, next time I'll do what appears to be more acceptable and call a player on your team a "beyotch" instead.

Go home to your sorry board Pussycat.
 

drdiags

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I am not sure why Cam cannot get over the hump against the Seahawks. Benjamin could have helped him out with an endzone catch. Must admit there were several times where he had a chance to put this game in serious jeopardy for the Seahawks. I didn't see anything that would have me wanting him gone.

Wilson got a chance to finish but I am not sure I would be feeling all that good if not for Willson's catch. The miss to Helfeit was a gut shot.

Notice that I said nothing to our folks about their posting choices. Smile ...
 

hawksfansinceday1

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googoodan":2951cn4l said:
hawksfansinceday1":2951cn4l said:
googoodan":2951cn4l said:
Cam's WRs do not bang his wife.
Beat your team the last 3 in a row. Beat in '06 in the NFCCG. RW has a Super Bowl win as do the Seahawks. Your team does not nor does your QB.

I'd have banned you for this comment btw, but then I wouldn't have had the pleasure of reminding you of all the FACTS I mentioned above so glad I'm not.

OK, next time I'll do what appears to be more acceptable and call a player on your team a "beyotch" instead.
Will you please respond to these facts: Seattle has beaten your team 3 in a row, beat your team in the NFCCG in '06 and has won a Super Bowl while Carolina has not.

Thank you in advance.
 

ctrcat

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drdiags":32aeqknz said:
I am not sure why Cam cannot get over the hump against the Seahawks. Benjamin could have helped him out with an endzone catch. Must admit there were several times where he had a chance to put this game in serious jeopardy for the Seahawks. I didn't see anything that would have me wanting him gone.

Wilson got a chance to finish but I am not sure I would be feeling all that good if not for Willson's catch. The miss to Helfeit was a gut shot.

Notice that I said nothing to our folks about their posting choices. Smile ...

Two years ago I truly thought it was because he was coming off the most maddening loss in franchise history one week prior in his hometown of Atlanta where he played great, last year Olsen had multiple drops and Williams fumbled at the end, but after three times in three years you simply must laugh, throw your hands in the air and admit it must be something more. Cam's neighbor Michael Jordan had similar issues with the Pistons, but if I were a Seahawk fan, I would simply bask in being the champs and having RW, who I know you guys wouldn't trade for Cam just as I wouldn't trade Cam. Don't blame you.
 

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googoodan":xiaanz5b said:
HawKnPeppa":xiaanz5b said:
Yeah, it's a sad state of affairs for the other team when they want our OL, LMAO!
On another note, if slumping your shoulders on the sideline with a towel over your head is 'black enough,' I'll keep our 'Uncle Tom,' thank you!

At least one person gets it.
Wilson wouldn't survive to halftime with our band of Ryan Kalil and the four UDFAs.

I understood what you meant and understand why you'd say it. To me it's not a a troll, more like a factual statement of the situation from the Carolina point of view.

Your 4 UDFAs + Kalil made our pass rush look good at the end. Honestly, I was surprised our defense got blown off the ball the first few Carolina drives by that patchwork OL, and we were extremely lucky to only concede FG's instead of being down 2 scores. It was like watching our read-option offense and trying to defend against it, except with Cam running it instead of RW. It was downright scary for most of the first half and only a timely turnover and a late first half mini-revival of our offense kept us in the game.

This game felt like the San Diego and Dallas games (losses) all over again until the last drive of the 1st half. I was thinking, sh*t, how are we making Carolina's supposed scrap heap OL look like Pro Bowlers?

Apparently the Seattle defensive coaches woke up made some halftime adjustments to take advantage of the patchwork.

The reality of the situation, is that if Cam makes exactly "1" more play in this game than he made, it's all reversed, and all the talk about leadership, etc. is just so much hot air. The "1" play Cam needed to do different this game was the avoid-the-sack flip-pass pick to Marcus Burley. That was a gift.

At the same time, Cam has given us several "gifts" like that in crunch time the last few seasons, so it seems he needs to somehow change his mental approach to the game to stop doing that.

Gifts:
1) The Brandon Browner strip-fumble that stopped a Carolina TD. (I think that was a 2012 game, but not 100% sure)
2) Throwing the ball into the ground at the end of the 2013 game on a 4th down play that would have led to a 14-12 Carolina win.
3) The ill-advised flip-pass pick today.
Honorable mention: The pass thrown into the ground on Carolina's last possession looked just like the pass on gift 2) above.

I can only conclude that there is something about our team, and the interaction with Cam, and where he's at in his current mastery of the game, that gets into his head and results in him giving us these kinds of gifts.

Personally, I think that Cam is so physically gifted that he's been able to ride that to success at every level prior to the NFL, and thus hasn't *had* to work as hard on the mental game, emotional self-management, and leadership. Wilson hasn't had that advantage as much, so he's had to work his ass off his whole life and look for an edge in every area, including those.

If Cam decides to really go to work on these areas, it would probably make up the 1 key play per game, and instead we'd all be talking about his passionate emotional leadership and clutch play, probably in the context of multiple Carolina Super Bowl wins. Only Cam can make that decision and do the WORK to become that composed QB and leader, in his own way, reflecting his own unique strengths.

I think an interesting parallel would be Eli Manning, with his two Super Bowl rings. Eli isn't known for his "intense emotional leadership", in fact quite the opposite. Yet he has two Superb Owl rings, from making two amazing key plays at critical times, which really just shows that he stayed positive and focused the whole time, no matter how bad sh*t got. I'm speaking specifically of the David Tyree helmet catch, after somehow escaping a sure sack, leading to improbably Lombardi #1, and then the Mario Manningham sideline tightrope that led to Lombardi #2. The major issue with Eli seems to be his season-to-season consistency with varying collections of talent, but he's sure had a couple good playoff runs.

Can Cam change his internal mental approach to be focused and constructive, when sh*t is going bad against a tough opponent, and keep his focus when it counts, and make the key play, instead of making a bonehead play? Right now, that's the difference, that's why Russell Wilson has a ring, because Russell was able to do that in timely situations last year. If and when Cam does that... scary for the rest of the league!
 

olyfan63

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hawksfansinceday1":2k3ocp8a said:
Will you please respond to these facts: Seattle has beaten your team 3 in a row, beat your team in the NFCCG in '06 and has won a Super Bowl while Carolina has not.

Thank you in advance.

Wouldn't responding to "your team sucks" be more appropriate for the Shack? Cam wasn't on the Panthers in 06, IIRC.
I understood this to be a thread contrasting the leadership abilities of Russell Wilson and Cam Newton.

Maybe the Panther fan's RW wife comment was a better fit for the Shack, but at the same time, it also shows that Russell has had challenges in his personal life to work through and keep his focus as a leader for the Seahawks. So it actually does relate to leadership, the thread topic, in a warped sort of way.

Plus, it is game-day, only a couple hours removed from an emotional loss for Panther fans, so Panther fans might say emotional and provocative things on a Seahawks forum. Oh, I forgot, we Seahawks fans are 100% calm and class after a bitter, hard fought loss for our team.
 

ctrcat

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olyfan63":32eal6of said:
googoodan":32eal6of said:
HawKnPeppa":32eal6of said:
Yeah, it's a sad state of affairs for the other team when they want our OL, LMAO!
On another note, if slumping your shoulders on the sideline with a towel over your head is 'black enough,' I'll keep our 'Uncle Tom,' thank you!

At least one person gets it.
Wilson wouldn't survive to halftime with our band of Ryan Kalil and the four UDFAs.

I understood what you meant and understand why you'd say it. To me it's not a a troll, more like a factual statement of the situation from the Carolina point of view.

Your 4 UDFAs + Kalil made our pass rush look good at the end. Honestly, I was surprised our defense got blown off the ball the first few Carolina drives by that patchwork OL, and we were extremely lucky to only concede FG's instead of being down 2 scores. It was like watching our read-option offense and trying to defend against it, except with Cam running it instead of RW. It was downright scary for most of the first half and only a timely turnover and a late first half mini-revival of our offense kept us in the game.

This game felt like the San Diego and Dallas games (losses) all over again until the last drive of the 1st half. I was thinking, sh*t, how are we making Carolina's supposed scrap heap OL look like Pro Bowlers?

Apparently the Seattle defensive coaches woke up made some halftime adjustments to take advantage of the patchwork.

The reality of the situation, is that if Cam makes exactly "1" more play in this game than he made, it's all reversed, and all the talk about leadership, etc. is just so much hot air. The "1" play Cam needed to do different this game was the avoid-the-sack flip-pass pick to Marcus Burley. That was a gift.

At the same time, Cam has given us several "gifts" like that in crunch time the last few seasons, so it seems he needs to somehow change his mental approach to the game to stop doing that.

Gifts:
1) The Brandon Browner strip-fumble that stopped a Carolina TD. (I think that was a 2012 game, but not 100% sure)
2) Throwing the ball into the ground at the end of the 2013 game on a 4th down play that would have led to a 14-12 Carolina win.
3) The ill-advised flip-pass pick today.
Honorable mention: The pass thrown into the ground on Carolina's last possession looked just like the pass on gift 2) above.

I can only conclude that there is something about our team, and the interaction with Cam, and where he's at in his current mastery of the game, that gets into his head and results in him giving us these kinds of gifts.

Personally, I think that Cam is so physically gifted that he's been able to ride that to success at every level prior to the NFL, and thus hasn't *had* to work as hard on the mental game, emotional self-management, and leadership. Wilson hasn't had that advantage as much, so he's had to work his ass off his whole life and look for an edge in every area, including those.

If Cam decides to really go to work on these areas, it would probably make up the 1 key play per game, and instead we'd all be talking about his passionate emotional leadership and clutch play, probably in the context of multiple Carolina Super Bowl wins. Only Cam can make that decision and do the WORK to become that composed QB and leader, in his own way, reflecting his own unique strengths.

I think an interesting parallel would be Eli Manning, with his two Super Bowl rings. Eli isn't known for his "intense emotional leadership", in fact quite the opposite. Yet he has two Superb Owl rings, from making two amazing key plays at critical times, which really just shows that he stayed positive and focused the whole time, no matter how bad sh*t got. I'm speaking specifically of the David Tyree helmet catch, after somehow escaping a sure sack, leading to improbably Lombardi #1, and then the Mario Manningham sideline tightrope that led to Lombardi #2. The major issue with Eli seems to be his season-to-season consistency with varying collections of talent, but he's sure had a couple good playoff runs.

Can Cam change his internal mental approach to be focused and constructive, when sh*t is going bad against a tough opponent, and keep his focus when it counts, and make the key play, instead of making a bonehead play? Right now, that's the difference, that's why Russell Wilson has a ring, because Russell was able to do that in timely situations last year. If and when Cam does that... scary for the rest of the league!

Amazing post.
 

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I am pretty sure if Cam Newton was a Seahawk, he would do some amazing things with petes coaching philosophy. Ya sure he feels dejected but atleast he tries his best and works hard and wants to win.
 

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On the flip-pass - if his RB / outlet moves with the play it is a completion and everyone goes - wow Cam is amazing

With that said I don't see Cam having that comeback and win mentality

Finally he has runs in the gameplan that reminds me of Washington during RGIII' rookie year. Long term results will not be a healthy QB. I don't recall one scramble with intent to throw - not sure how it normally is
 

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On the flip-pass - if his RB / outlet moves with the play it is a completion and everyone goes - wow Cam is amazing

With that said I don't see Cam having that comeback and win mentality

Finally he has runs in the gameplan that reminds me of Washington during RGIII' rookie year. Long term results will not be a healthy QB. I don't recall one scramble with intent to throw - not sure how it normally is
 

olyfan63

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mikeak":12e4vlol said:
On the flip-pass - if his RB / outlet moves with the play it is a completion and everyone goes - wow Cam is amazing
...

Interesting point... to me, it just looked like a bad decision for a QB who is going down, and at high risk to be an inaccurate toss... Panther fans, do you think that one is on Cam or on the RB? I say it's on Cam, but I never considered the RB angle. Even then, there's still an intangible aspect of how a QB can influence the players around him, get them almost "reading his mind", that we've seen with some of the great ones. (Some of the plays I've seen from Aaron Rogers & co. come to mind first, but there several other QBs that have this gift)
 

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googoodan":4bubfbag said:
Cam's WRs do not bang his wife.


Is this where I finally get to give the "0 Rings" treatment to a visiting fan?
 
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