King Dog
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I've been a hater for the past few years, but he's looked real good during the preseason. If Iupati can't go, I'm not feeling terrible about Pocic as a replacement . What say you?
Who else is hyped about Pocic?
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King Dog
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Pocic was the first lineman draft pundits liked in recent memory other than Glowinski. Seems like Schneider had finally had enough with Cable, and went on the word of his scouts or own evaluation.
kobebryant
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It seems like Solari has him and Ifedi on a nice upward trajectory.
Pocic has seen a lot of practice and game snaps at left guard this training camp & preseason. So much so that Joey Hunt has enjoyed seeing the lions share of backup snaps at center. They both look like they have grown at their craft. I've become a little less concerned about the injury history of Mike Iupati. I like the direction the offensive line is trending.
SoulfishHawk
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Had this conversation with Shadow yesterday. I think I'm like many who were pretty down on the guy. But, he looks completely different. And with the fact that we can almost guarantee that Fluke and Sweezy won't play 16 games, having a versatile guy like Pocic could be extremely valuable this season. Here's to hoping he continues to prove us wrong.
vigilantgrrl
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I too am glad that we did not give up on Pocic. I actually think his development was delayed by having his first year under Cable. For all those that keep saying he was a Cable pick, I want to remind people that that was not the case. Cable never even worked out the guy pre-draft. This was a Schneider pick 100% . An all SEC center who can play all the O-line positions. Lack of NFL strength and Cable were his main problems. He has now added bulk and knows Solari's system now. I actually think he can be a starting caliber Center and can eventually replace Britt, if we let Britt go. A big plus is also that he seems to not get too dinged up by injuries.
olyfan63
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SoulfishHawk":2o03wyhh said:
Pocic has sucked so much for so long. How can we have any certainty this isn't just a preseason mirage?
I mean, I wanted to like the guy after the draft too, with his college press clippings touting his virtues, but a couple years of seeing him get routinely manhandled in the NFL has seriously damaged my faith.
Joey Hunt actually continues to look like an NFL-adequate Center in preseason, so that's a nice plus.
I'll consider it a win if Pocic can go out and just not badly suck when he's in where Russell knows that Pocic's guy is always going to instantly beat him, and the RBs know that Pocic' guy will always throw him aside and penetrate. Am I exaggerating on how bad Pocic has been at times? Was he injured a lot when he was in last couple years, and well less than 100% when playing? We know that OL mostly get noticed when they get beaten. Trying to be at least a little fair to the guy...
McGruff
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olyfan63":13t4h163 said:
Hes 24 and entering just his third year.
Short attention span much?!?
SoulfishHawk
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Sucked? I don't think so at all. Crappy coaching by Cable and it just took him a while to develop. He looks like a totally different guy. And the fact that he's so young is huge.
olyfan63
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OK Soulfish, you've convinced me we(I) need to be more objective and data-oriented on Pocic. Anybody got a good collection of Ethan Pocic video clips, showing his wins and losses? That iconic picture of 5 Seahawks linemen on the ground in failed cut blocks, while 4 defenders have a clear path to Russell, was Pocic in on that one? Yeah, I know, that's a pic, and I asked for vids.
I'll start off the Ethan Pocic film room with what I can quickly find. In the first clip, Pete and John talk about why they drafted Pocic. Very interesting the reaction when PC/JS responded to the question about Cable's involvement in the Pocic pick. Pocic is for sure NOT a Cable pick, but a PC/JS pick.
In the Legion of 12 video, 2nd one below, Pocic has some pretty good clips showing his strengths, and a few showing his issues. If he's in fact functionally stronger this year against the bull rush, without becoming slower/less nimble, that will certainly help him.
[youtube]fPRSktcFB4k[/youtube]
[youtube]yCcLBzlFLVc[/youtube]
I'll start off the Ethan Pocic film room with what I can quickly find. In the first clip, Pete and John talk about why they drafted Pocic. Very interesting the reaction when PC/JS responded to the question about Cable's involvement in the Pocic pick. Pocic is for sure NOT a Cable pick, but a PC/JS pick.
In the Legion of 12 video, 2nd one below, Pocic has some pretty good clips showing his strengths, and a few showing his issues. If he's in fact functionally stronger this year against the bull rush, without becoming slower/less nimble, that will certainly help him.
[youtube]fPRSktcFB4k[/youtube]
[youtube]yCcLBzlFLVc[/youtube]
It looks like Pocic's additional weight is paying off but if we're lucky he won't need to play much this season.
Next off-season, however, is going to be get extremely interesting for the offensive line. Ifedi, Fant, Hunt and Iupati will be UFAs while Brown and Britt will have ~$12m cap hits at age 34 and 29 respectively. Pocic will be in a contract year and likely in the mix at both guard spots as well as center.
Next off-season, however, is going to be get extremely interesting for the offensive line. Ifedi, Fant, Hunt and Iupati will be UFAs while Brown and Britt will have ~$12m cap hits at age 34 and 29 respectively. Pocic will be in a contract year and likely in the mix at both guard spots as well as center.
chris98251
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Pocic had to add weight that first year, he was a rag doll when out there, he did add the weight and quickly, but not the strength and the weight looked like just that weight and not distributed well, another year and I think he has everything where it is suppose to be both strength and weight, technically he was always very savvy based on the reports.
hawksfansinceday1
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Damn Preach....McGruff":2uiiojy4 said:
A starting group of Brown-Iupati-Britt-Fluker-Ifedi with a backup group of Fant-Pocic-Hunt-Simmons-Jones. That's a backup group that's better than some starting groups we've trotted out before under Cable.
I'm comfortable with the OL group for the first time in a long time. Probably best group since Walter Jones retired.
I'm comfortable with the OL group for the first time in a long time. Probably best group since Walter Jones retired.
LudwigsDrummer
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I agree with your observation. Pocic was a JS pick.vigilantgrrl":50bzvy19 said:
olyfan63
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OK, I am having to update my understanding of the level of Pocic's play.
The Week 16 Chiefs/Seahawks game from last year, where Russell Wilson outguns Patrick Mahomes, gives us a nice look at Pocic in a variety of situations. In the 15-minute highlight clip, Pocic is very visible, and in general, he does very well and watching him it's instructive to see the different things the Seahawks have him (and OL players in general) do, and how well he does those things. Some notes:
* Pocic starts the game at Right Guard, but then somewhere around the end of the first half, Pocic switches to Left Guard, apparently due to an injury and situational needs of the team.
* Pocic seems to play equally well at both Left and Right guard.
* The one time (in those plays) Pocic was clearly beaten, his guy got past him but Pocic stayed with it, and pushed him past Russell, just not far enough, and his guy got half a sack. This is at about 7:00 into the video.
* Overall, Pocic had a positive contribution on nearly every successful play. Yes, the highlights cherry pick the successful plays, but Pocic does a range of things well in those plays.
* Pocic typically stands his guy up and engages him, and rarely did he seem to get driven back.
* In one play, Pocic initially run-blocks, then jumps back to pass-protect. The initial run block was fairly convincing.
* Pocic does a number of combination blocks successfully with other OL players, and generally they neutralize the opponent.
* In one pass play, Pocic has his guy contained, and Fant (74) misses his block, leading to a Chiefs sack of Wilson.
* On Carson's 6-ish yard TD run, Carson cuts one way, then cuts back across, and runs off Pocic's R shoulder and then in for the TD. Pocic kept his guy engaged the whole time, and Carson basically ran right past the helpless DL. Shows Carson's confidence in Pocic, among other things.
* Sure, you could say KC's D sucks, and thus not a fully valid test of Pocic's play. Fine, but Pocic had a range of situations against a range of KC defenders, and did well in nearly all of them.
Overall, I have to say I'm sold. Pocic is at least an average to above-average NFL OL at both RG and LG spots. As JS said on draft day, Pocic is like having 2-1/2 players; apparently the 1/2 being for his ability to also play Center capably, even though I don't recall ever seeing him at C for the Seahawks. Pocic in the NFL is now looking true to his pre-draft scouting reports, and you can see the qualities PC/JS liked showing up in play. He gives full effort every play, is mentally quick to recognize the threat and neutralize defensive stunts and blitzes, always finds a guy to block, hustles downfield on running plays to find another defender to block, and generally displays pretty good athletic ability and nimble feet for a big guy.
Here is a link to the clip of the 2018 week 16 Sea/KC highlights where Pocic's work can be clearly seen:
[youtube]DEKhWgrB0qY[/youtube]
The Week 16 Chiefs/Seahawks game from last year, where Russell Wilson outguns Patrick Mahomes, gives us a nice look at Pocic in a variety of situations. In the 15-minute highlight clip, Pocic is very visible, and in general, he does very well and watching him it's instructive to see the different things the Seahawks have him (and OL players in general) do, and how well he does those things. Some notes:
* Pocic starts the game at Right Guard, but then somewhere around the end of the first half, Pocic switches to Left Guard, apparently due to an injury and situational needs of the team.
* Pocic seems to play equally well at both Left and Right guard.
* The one time (in those plays) Pocic was clearly beaten, his guy got past him but Pocic stayed with it, and pushed him past Russell, just not far enough, and his guy got half a sack. This is at about 7:00 into the video.
* Overall, Pocic had a positive contribution on nearly every successful play. Yes, the highlights cherry pick the successful plays, but Pocic does a range of things well in those plays.
* Pocic typically stands his guy up and engages him, and rarely did he seem to get driven back.
* In one play, Pocic initially run-blocks, then jumps back to pass-protect. The initial run block was fairly convincing.
* Pocic does a number of combination blocks successfully with other OL players, and generally they neutralize the opponent.
* In one pass play, Pocic has his guy contained, and Fant (74) misses his block, leading to a Chiefs sack of Wilson.
* On Carson's 6-ish yard TD run, Carson cuts one way, then cuts back across, and runs off Pocic's R shoulder and then in for the TD. Pocic kept his guy engaged the whole time, and Carson basically ran right past the helpless DL. Shows Carson's confidence in Pocic, among other things.
* Sure, you could say KC's D sucks, and thus not a fully valid test of Pocic's play. Fine, but Pocic had a range of situations against a range of KC defenders, and did well in nearly all of them.
Overall, I have to say I'm sold. Pocic is at least an average to above-average NFL OL at both RG and LG spots. As JS said on draft day, Pocic is like having 2-1/2 players; apparently the 1/2 being for his ability to also play Center capably, even though I don't recall ever seeing him at C for the Seahawks. Pocic in the NFL is now looking true to his pre-draft scouting reports, and you can see the qualities PC/JS liked showing up in play. He gives full effort every play, is mentally quick to recognize the threat and neutralize defensive stunts and blitzes, always finds a guy to block, hustles downfield on running plays to find another defender to block, and generally displays pretty good athletic ability and nimble feet for a big guy.
Here is a link to the clip of the 2018 week 16 Sea/KC highlights where Pocic's work can be clearly seen:
[youtube]DEKhWgrB0qY[/youtube]
