Which fanbase got it worse (SEA or NE)?

[idahohawk]

Agreed on the "good times" comment. Indeed. Overall I'm more than enjoying it.

But we pooched XLIX big time. Still makes me nauseous. The fact that Kearse's impossible catch happened makes it even worse IMO.

I want to think we'll get back to another Owl soon, but despite all the crappy breaks, odds, and bounces last year, it was still right there for the taking.

No freaking contest. We tried a slant pass to our #6 WR from the 1 yard line to win the Superbowl!

When will it end?

When people stop thinking that play signals the end of the world for the Seahawks or our hope of reigning for a while, or even that it's worth continuously harping on.

We've been twice in two years at the top, and if not for Kearse's miraculous bounce-catch, we wouldn't have even had THAT chance.

These are good times. I'm happy.

 

[Popeyejones]

Ok for arguement sake, what if the officials had measured the pressure in the ball Montana threw to Clark, and it was low, then they dug and found that Joe had the balls a few pounds under so he could throw a better ball and that Taylor's improvement was because of a more catchable ball instead of Walshs offense.

You think that the Cowboys would not be all up in air and that the Walsh era would be looked at the same as it is now?

The screaming of Taint would be very loud, additionall Jerrys confession of using stickum as well would further taint that era because it would show that the 49ers were cheaters for a long time. Add to that Romanoskis Steroid use and a few other things and you have the makings of a asterisk for every championship. That doesn't include the current Eddie in Carmen issue with salaries etc.

Hard to respond to this comparison substantively without getting into the specifics of deflategate, which would probably derail this into being a different thread.

I will say however, that I wouldn't care a lick if Montana preferred to throw balls below the league set PSI.

I know I'm in the minority but this Pats SB isn't even tainted for me like how the other one's are.

I get that it's breaking the rules and I don't disagree with that or the punishment for it in the slightest, I just think the scandal of it (and moral outrage and garbage in/ garbage out statistical arguments around it) are all wildly overblown. The Patriots are kind of deserving of that because they've been caught cheating so many times, but unlke the other ones, this one, nah, it's just doesn't move me. If I were a Pats fan I'd probably be one of those stubborn ranters (and I'm glad I'm not, because boy, they look pretty stupid :lol: )

 

[kearly]

I think Seattle has it better than anyone else right now. As long as Pete is here, Seattle will be competing for Super Bowls every year. In fact, the team he's built is so strong that you might even see his team win them in the years after he retires, like Dallas and SF at the tail end of those dynasties.

New England's time of dominance is probably coming to a close very soon, and then they will be forever mocked as the team that could only win when they were compulsive cheaters.

I don't feel bad for the Pats, but I don't think they went out on top either. They are like the bank robber who opens his sack of money at his hideout only to have an ink bomb go off from inside the bag. Those titles being tainted means a lot.

 

[DavidSeven]

I don't feel bad for the Pats, but I don't think they went out on top either. They are like the bank robber who opens his sack of money at his hideout only to have an ink bomb go off from inside the bag. Those titles being tainted means a lot.

Great analogy.

 

[justafan]

Lets see.The Boston Bruins and Stanley cup winners.The Red Sox with all of the history and World Series,Celtics who might have one of the rischest sports heritages of all of sports and the Pats and their SB wins which I dont think are all that tainted vs the grief and heartache that we Seattle fans have endured for decades.Who have 2 major sports pro championships in our history and only 2 major pro sports teams to even root for.I would give my left nut if my hometown had that kind of history and success.I wouldnt care who said what about how they were won.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Ok for arguement sake, what if the officials had measured the pressure in the ball Montana threw to Clark, and it was low, then they dug and found that Joe had the balls a few pounds under so he could throw a better ball and that Taylor's improvement was because of a more catchable ball instead of Walshs offense.

You think that the Cowboys would not be all up in air and that the Walsh era would be looked at the same as it is now?

The screaming of Taint would be very loud, additionall Jerrys confession of using stickum as well would further taint that era because it would show that the 49ers were cheaters for a long time. Add to that Romanoskis Steroid use and a few other things and you have the makings of a asterisk for every championship. That doesn't include the current Eddie in Carmen issue with salaries etc.

Hard to respond to this comparison substantively without getting into the specifics of deflategate, which would probably derail this into being a different thread.

I will say however, that I wouldn't care a lick if Montana preferred to throw balls below the league set PSI.

I know I'm in the minority but this Pats SB isn't even tainted for me like how the other one's are.

I get that it's breaking the rules and I don't disagree with that or the punishment for it in the slightest, I just think the scandal of it (and moral outrage and garbage in/ garbage out statistical arguments around it) are all wildly overblown. The Patriots are kind of deserving of that because they've been caught cheating so many times, but unlke the other ones, this one, nah, it's just doesn't move me. If I were a Pats fan I'd probably be one of those stubborn ranters (and I'm glad I'm not, because boy, they look pretty stupid :lol: )

For me it is not just breaking the rules. It is making the change to the rules, and then you break them and then deny it. But I am a Seahawks fan......and loving every minute of it.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

Tom Brady is still going to be a first ballot HOFer. The cheating label means absolutely nothing in the big picture.

You know, you would think so. But, this thing hasn't lost steam yet. Remember how cheating scandal affected baseball players like Rafael Palmeiro. Anyone catch ESPN First Take (May 21) with Mark Schlereth?

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

To be so close, so profoundly close to a reality never before seen by Seahawks fans only to have it taken away on an unimaginable play (call) a half a yard away.

A half yard.

I need a drink. And... I don't really even drink.

 

[two dog]

New England fans have it worse because they are New England fans.
I don't have enough words to describe how terrible their situation is
simply because they do not have the good fortune to be Seahawk fans.

 

[drdiags]

Pats fans will be okay. In the end, the Raiders owner and players admitted without regret that they would cheat. Spygate didn't stop the national worship for that team, the double-pounding the NY Giants put on them in the Superbowls didn't detract from their mystique.

It is too easy to play the pure-of-heart role as a fan and fanbase but I would not want to get into the high and mighty role of feeling morally superior to another organization. This wasn't the Chicago Black Sox and mainly is a big deal because Brady said he didn't do anything wrong.

The world will still look to BB and the Patriots as a model of excellence. Or did you miss the Belicheck in Cleveland NFL Films story?

Those Pat fans thread titles were funny, but most likely just some of the more emotional/hysterical fans that we have around here as well. Fans post cringe-worthy stuff all the time. Free speech and all.

 

[kearly]

Lets see.The Boston Bruins and Stanley cup winners.The Red Sox with all of the history and World Series,Celtics who might have one of the rischest sports heritages of all of sports and the Pats and their SB wins which I dont think are all that tainted vs the grief and heartache that we Seattle fans have endured for decades.Who have 2 major sports pro championships in our history and only 2 major pro sports teams to even root for.I would give my left nut if my hometown had that kind of history and success.I wouldnt care who said what about how they were won.

I just figured he meant Seahawks vs. Pats (as indicated by the poll). But if he means all sports, then yeah, NE for sure. The Seahawks are a bright spot in an otherwise insanely depressing sports city.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

From a Pats fan, all the deflate-gate bs has definitely taken away from the normal SB winning high, at least for a while, but only because the whole Wells report and NFL office behavior was so absurdly unjust and wrong. The texts and bathroom stop mean nothing if the balls didn't even measure out of expected range. There were no abnormally low psi readings to begin with, just a Keystone cops farce that twisted data by disregarding the ref's own testimony about which gauge he used.

Brady, the ball boys, and the team are clean on all of this, but it just goes to show what can happen when you have prejudiced league officials leaking lies to the prejudiced media, together with a commissioner who lacks a single ounce of judgment.

Not to mention that even it were all true, that Brady conspired with low-life ball boys to change the ball pressure a half-psi and risk his whole career (a pretty preposterous notion), that the Pats still beat the ever-lovin' crap out of the Colts in the 2nd half (make that both halves) of the AFCC, then set all kinds of SB passing records against a great D with balls at the "correct" psi level (which of course changes by the minute based on temperature changes). Meaning that all this criminal behavior had no effect whatsoever on anything. I mean, give me a freakin' break.

 

[Uncle Si]

That was worth the read...

 

[PackerNation]

It's always better to win and deal with the aftermath then to lose and feel cheated.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The Patriots got to keep their championship. If you are them, why would you care about anything else?

End of thread.

Titles, all that matters. My guess is 99.99999% of us would take a deflategate scandal if it meant Lombardi's.

 

[NINEster]

Think the Packers had it worse tbh

Oh man, good call. :lol:

As for the Pats and Seahawks, for me, some people thinking your win comes with an asterisk because of what happened in previous games is unarguably better than absolutely everyone knowing and agreeding you lost in a game without any cheating. It's really not close, IMO.

Part of this could be, however, because I think "deflategate" was one of the more over-hyped and ultimately silly sports scandals in my lifetime. There's an element of just desserts to it because I think the Pats got off too lightly on their previous cheating scandals, but this one just doesn't mean anything to me at all. (I know I'm probably in the minority about that though, so I'm just stating it outright because I'd imagine it probably colors my opinion a little bit).

Ok for arguement sake, what if the officials had measured the pressure in the ball Montana threw to Clark, and it was low, then they dug and found that Joe had the balls a few pounds under so he could throw a better ball and that Taylor's improvement was because of a more catchable ball instead of Walshs offense.

You think that the Cowboys would not be all up in air and that the Walsh era would be looked at the same as it is now?

The screaming of Taint would be very loud, additionall Jerrys confession of using stickum as well would further taint that era because it would show that the 49ers were cheaters for a long time. Add to that Romanoskis Steroid use and a few other things and you have the makings of a asterisk for every championship. That doesn't include the current Eddie in Carmen issue with salaries etc.

Interesting concepts but Montana to whomever was really all about the talent. We are talking about a 10 yard Hail Mary pass and short slants and medium posts to Taylor who was very much a Rice clone in many ways.

Jerry's stickum is fair. But again what was he known for?

Route running. Would still hold all nfl records probably.

If you did your homework properly you would have recalled the little known saga of Bill Walsh claiming his headsets wouldn't work against the Giants forcing them to kill theirs. With the first 15 plays scripted, the 49er offense had an advantage. When parcells confronted Walsh about it he pleaded no contest.

As far as salary cap is concerned, SF was convicted for infractions in the '98 season well past their last Lombardi.

Haters want to claim debartolo finagled the '94 cap to sign Deion and all those vet free agents on D -- no proof let alone accusations of the sort. The very next year Watters and Deion bolted a did imagine they could have found a way to keep at least one of them if they resorted to cheating.

SF dynasty really was about lucking out on a top 5 QB/HC combo, getting a top 5 all time FS and WR and exploiting a non salary cap era far more than other teams. The owner not getting proper credit as well.

The Patriots have a good number of similarities, except they've had to play in a cap era.

 

[HawkFan72]

These (Pats fans) folks will ALL be cheering their team on come September. Yelling at the TV, fist and chest bumping their friends, getting nacho cheese dripping down their jerseys. Being a diehard fan of an NFL team is an act of wearing your heart on your sleeve 24/7.

12's have it worse. To be so close, so profoundly close to a reality never before seen by Seahawks fans only to have it taken away on an unimaginable play (call) a half a yard away.

A half yard.

Every time I think I'm over the Super Bowl I read a post like this and realize I'm not. Still makes me so angry!

 

[Seahawkfan80]

These (Pats fans) folks will ALL be cheering their team on come September. Yelling at the TV, fist and chest bumping their friends, getting nacho cheese dripping down their jerseys. Being a diehard fan of an NFL team is an act of wearing your heart on your sleeve 24/7.

12's have it worse. To be so close, so profoundly close to a reality never before seen by Seahawks fans only to have it taken away on an unimaginable play (call) a half a yard away.

A half yard.

Every time I think I'm over the Super Bowl I read a post like this and realize I'm not. Still makes me so angry!

That is obvious by your avatar. :mrgreen: :stirthepot: