What would it take for Wilson to win MVP?

[Scorpion05]

Of course you do, ot supports your narrative yet we all know it is a popularity contest

So is your stance on the subject

Lol if you have been reading i stated by stance and used facts. Several times.

So did McGruff, and he's coming from a place that isn't "defend Russ and go after anyone says anything that even infers he isn't the greatest QB to ever play the game".

Even more nonsense.

McGruff made wild claims..such as Russ can’t play in any system but Mahomes can. And that Mahomes is flat out better.

The idea that debating someone, and asking them to provide effective counter arguments to prove such is silly. But it’s the same nonsense that even Russ critics have used in the past. Make hyperbolic statements about Russ then gaslight when someone goes “Wait a minute, support your argument.” That is nowhere close to believing Russ is the “best in the world.”

Like I’ve said. Dan Marino is more talented than Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. But both QBs are arguably better than Marino. Because quarterbacking depends on your situation, coaching, and your mental game. That is the very premise of what some are arguing here. And it’s a logical argument when discussing Quarterbacks. Mahomes didn’t win in college because he didn’t have the right scheme and talent surrounding him. He put up numbers, but didn’t make the plays when they counted. He was always super talented.

Being a great QB isn’t just about putting up great numbers and yards. Ask Dan Marino, ask Philip Rivers. Mahomes has a lot to prove in the playoffs, and when he gets his big contract with less surrounding talent. Brady, Russ, they’ve actually earned the praise they receive. Mahomes is receiving praise from casual football fans or, people who quickly hop on bandwagons as they did with Andrew Luck and Cam Newton(2015)

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

^^^

:177692: That's enough of that.

Time out in effect.

Waiting, or was this only directed at me?

 

[Jville]

^^^

:177692: That's enough of that.

Time out in effect.

Waiting, or was this only directed at me?

Nothing personal or directed toward you. The thread was locked for a while and then unlocked with the thought that all could get back on the topic of "Wilson's potential to become MVP".

P.S. I make a habit of checking my private messages for posting inquires.

With regards to Russell Wilson, I think his prospects for becoming league MVP have never looked brighter. :2thumbs: Why not Russell!

 

[chris98251]

It's a popularity contest and the NFL wants Mahomes to be the face of the league when Brady goes. Wilson could throw for 5000 yds and 60 tds and at best all he'd get is a pro bowl out of it

I dont think that's true.

If Mahomes wins it will be because he puts up better numbers.

No conspiracy needed.

This is where I think your wrong, numbers are a nice support reason, but what else does he bring, does he make those around him better, is he able to snatch Victory from defeat, can he rally and lead a team and when everyone else thinks the chips are down.

Dan Marino should have won every year if it was just about numbers.

Peyton won so much because of the intangibles I stated along with good but not the best numbers, can Mahomes get there I am sure if he is trusted and grows he can, but not there yet.


I hope that makes some sense. Long debates and discussions can get slogged in a quagmire over time, MVP isn't necessarily leader in passing yards and TD's for a season.

 

[McGruff]

So is your stance on the subject

Lol if you have been reading i stated by stance and used facts. Several times.

So did McGruff, and he's coming from a place that isn't "defend Russ and go after anyone says anything that even infers he isn't the greatest QB to ever play the game".

Even more nonsense.

McGruff made wild claims..such as Russ can’t play in any system but Mahomes can. And that Mahomes is flat out better.

The idea that debating someone, and asking them to provide effective counter arguments to prove such is silly. But it’s the same nonsense that even Russ critics have used in the past. Make hyperbolic statements about Russ then gaslight when someone goes “Wait a minute, support your argument.” That is nowhere close to believing Russ is the “best in the world.”

Like I’ve said. Dan Marino is more talented than Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. But both QBs are arguably better than Marino. Because quarterbacking depends on your situation, coaching, and your mental game. That is the very premise of what some are arguing here. And it’s a logical argument when discussing Quarterbacks. Mahomes didn’t win in college because he didn’t have the right scheme and talent surrounding him. He put up numbers, but didn’t make the plays when they counted. He was always super talented.

Being a great QB isn’t just about putting up great numbers and yards. Ask Dan Marino, ask Philip Rivers. Mahomes has a lot to prove in the playoffs, and when he gets his big contract with less surrounding talent. Brady, Russ, they’ve actually earned the praise they receive. Mahomes is receiving praise from casual football fans or, people who quickly hop on bandwagons as they did with Andrew Luck and Cam Newton(2015)

McGruff said McGruff wasnt sure that Russ could play in any system. That is what McGruff actually said.

 

[JustTheTip]

Russ has had to deal with more than his fair share of slights (little recognition for the records he broke, no rookie of the year, no MVP, etc) but people saying that Mahomes has shown so far that he is the better QB is not one of them. You can't say Russ was slighted and then not give Mahomes his credit. That is called hypocrisy.

 

[John63]

Russ has had to deal with more than his fair share of slights (little recognition for the records he broke, no rookie of the year, no MVP, etc) but people saying that Mahomes has shown so far that he is the better QB is not one of them. You can't say Russ was slighted and then not give Mahomes his credit. That is called hypocrisy.

No one has slighted Mahomes though,. No one said he sucks, or he was not good. However, the people who started this made it clear that Mahomes is way better than Wilson and then away we went. The only hypocrisy is by the ones who made that statement about Mahomes being way better than Wilson adn it was nto close.

 

[Uncle Si]

Either way, that was a MvP play by Mahomes

 

[getnasty]

Mahomes might have to get hurt, the kid is special and plays in a system that is perfect for him.

 

[Rat]

I know Mahomes has become the new Andrew Luck that we have to hate only because some people like him more than Russ, but damn, what a TD on SNF. It might be a good system for him, but that doesn't mean he isn't really, really good. Would be awesome to see the two match up in at least one SB.

 

[McGruff]

Russ has had to deal with more than his fair share of slights (little recognition for the records he broke, no rookie of the year, no MVP, etc) but people saying that Mahomes has shown so far that he is the better QB is not one of them. You can't say Russ was slighted and then not give Mahomes his credit. That is called hypocrisy.

No one has slighted Mahomes though,. No one said he sucks, or he was not good. However, the people who started this made it clear that Mahomes is way better than Wilson and then away we went. The only hypocrisy is by the ones who made that statement about Mahomes being way better than Wilson adn it was nto close.

No one has said Mahomes is "way better" than Wilson. But continue.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

Russ has had to deal with more than his fair share of slights (little recognition for the records he broke, no rookie of the year, no MVP, etc) but people saying that Mahomes has shown so far that he is the better QB is not one of them. You can't say Russ was slighted and then not give Mahomes his credit. That is called hypocrisy.

No one has slighted Mahomes though,. No one said he sucks, or he was not good. However, the people who started this made it clear that Mahomes is way better than Wilson and then away we went. The only hypocrisy is by the ones who made that statement about Mahomes being way better than Wilson adn it was nto close.

No one has said Mahomes is "way better" than Wilson. But continue.

Hes also just playing at another level.

Just watch the games. Russ is awesome. No taking away from that.

But Mahomes is playing at a legendary level and shows no signs of stopping.

Facts.

Last year Mahomes had more yards, Touchdowns . . . Volume? Sure.

Okay, more YPA, better completion percentage, higher rating.

Better cast. Sure. I buy that.

But the year before in 2017, the chiefs were 10-6 with 415 points scored. Same system, largely the same personnel. In 2018 with Mahomes, 150 more points and 12 wins. Huge difference.

And he has continued in year two. Shattering records for young QB, records Russ used to hold.

You guys seem to think this means Russ sucks or I'm not a fan. Hes fantastic. Always has been. He keeps getting better. Best year ever. No doubt.

But Mahomes is better. Period.

Whatever. Argue semantics all you want.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Russ has had to deal with more than his fair share of slights (little recognition for the records he broke, no rookie of the year, no MVP, etc) but people saying that Mahomes has shown so far that he is the better QB is not one of them. You can't say Russ was slighted and then not give Mahomes his credit. That is called hypocrisy.

No one has slighted Mahomes though,. No one said he sucks, or he was not good. However, the people who started this made it clear that Mahomes is way better than Wilson and then away we went. The only hypocrisy is by the ones who made that statement about Mahomes being way better than Wilson adn it was nto close.

No one has said Mahomes is "way better" than Wilson. But continue.

Correct. In fact I said Russ was possibly more valuable to his team because a bit more is asked of him. I did say I feel Mahomes is a bit better overall.I also posted a couple weeks back that I would not trade Russ for anyone in the NFL except Mahomes. But continue.

 

[JustTheTip]

Russ has had to deal with more than his fair share of slights (little recognition for the records he broke, no rookie of the year, no MVP, etc) but people saying that Mahomes has shown so far that he is the better QB is not one of them. You can't say Russ was slighted and then not give Mahomes his credit. That is called hypocrisy.

No one has slighted Mahomes though,. No one said he sucks, or he was not good. However, the people who started this made it clear that Mahomes is way better than Wilson and then away we went. The only hypocrisy is by the ones who made that statement about Mahomes being way better than Wilson adn it was nto close.

You are slighting him for not giving him credit for outplaying every QB in the league and saying he has to prove it in a different system. You sound exactly like the talking heads have sounded about Wilson for most of his career.

 

[John63]

I know Mahomes has become the new Andrew Luck that we have to hate only because some people like him more than Russ, but damn, what a TD on SNF. It might be a good system for him, but that doesn't mean he isn't really, really good. Would be awesome to see the two match up in at least one SB.

I agree he is good. And let me remind everyone 6.5 % chance. That was the odds on the wilson to Lockett pass, which was an MVP pass.

 

[John63]

Russ has had to deal with more than his fair share of slights (little recognition for the records he broke, no rookie of the year, no MVP, etc) but people saying that Mahomes has shown so far that he is the better QB is not one of them. You can't say Russ was slighted and then not give Mahomes his credit. That is called hypocrisy.

No one has slighted Mahomes though,. No one said he sucks, or he was not good. However, the people who started this made it clear that Mahomes is way better than Wilson and then away we went. The only hypocrisy is by the ones who made that statement about Mahomes being way better than Wilson adn it was nto close.

No one has said Mahomes is "way better" than Wilson. But continue.

Actually you should go back and read, it was said in this thread.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Frankly, probably the defense remaining below average. However, I feel by Week 12 it will settle to around above average with the front 7 being consistently good to dominant.

But I think Wilson needs 4500-5000 total yards, 40-45 TDS, 0-4 Ints, while keeping his comp% above 70% and his rating 115. Then he has to win probably like 12+ games.

Wilson pretty much has to keep his pace to his torrid start and continue to show that his stats/leadership matter to wins while hoping at least Mahomes falters a bit.

 

[Fade]

The MVP award since Adrian Peterson has won, has morphed into the QB with the best stats on a #1 or #2 seed.

This is how you get guys like Matt Ryan winning MVP. When they should have gave the award to Shanny. Wilson was the MVP that year imo, but he only won 9 games. (Thanks Walsh.)

Wilson cannot win MVP unless his team is a #1 or #2 seed, regardless of his numbers.

He has to top Mahomes (and other challengers) in TD passes & passer rating while throwing fewer INTs. He isn't going to top them in passing yards due to the offense he plays in.

X Factor. Kill it on SNF. MNF, TNF, when most of the country is watching. So far 1 for 1.

 

[Rat]

I know Mahomes has become the new Andrew Luck that we have to hate only because some people like him more than Russ, but damn, what a TD on SNF. It might be a good system for him, but that doesn't mean he isn't really, really good. Would be awesome to see the two match up in at least one SB.

I agree he is good. And let me remind everyone 6.5 % chance. That was the odds on the wilson to Lockett pass, which was an MVP pass.

Yes, both can do ridiculous things. I wouldn't fault anyone who would prefer either as their team's starting QB, which says a lot about Mahomes given his relative inexperience. If KC continues to breeze through the season, Mahomes will probably win MVP in a landslide, but it could get interesting if the Chiefs start to slip, regardless of the reason for it.

 

[Fade]

Frankly, probably the defense remaining below average. However, I feel by Week 12 it will settle to around above average with the front 7 being consistently good to dominant.

But I think Wilson needs 4500-5000 total yards, 40-45 TDS, 0-4 Ints, while keeping his comp% above 70% and his rating 115. Then he has to win probably like 12+ games.

Wilson pretty much has to keep his pace to his torrid start and continue to show that his stats/leadership matter to wins while hoping at least Mahomes falters a bit.

Good news, going back 19 games. Wilson has 42 TDS and only 4 INTs. It is business as usual for him.