What the worst move/ transaction during the Pete/John era?

[Trenchbroom]

Letting Rob Sims go, which forced us to look for a left guard (still looking), Moffitt wasted draft pick, etc.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I agree, I don't understand how anyone could say the Flynn move was bad-- A) It costs us only money, no picks, B) He served as a capable backup while T-Jack was shipped to Buffalo. C) We Actually got a draft pick in this last draft in trading Flynn, so how exactly was that a bad move? We got a 2014 5th round pick (a conditional 2015- doubt that comes to fruition) - which after several trades amounts to WR-Kevin Norwood and T- Garrett Scott.

So again, how was that a bad move, was able to bolster the WR group from renting Flynn for a year.

I only said Flynn because at the time it was the 2nd free agent QB reach in a row after Whitehurst. So it didn't look good for Pete and John's QB evaluation ability. Obviously they made up for it drafting Wilson.

No giving up of draft picks = good.
Giving a career backup 24M/10M guaranteed after giving another career backup 8M = not a good use of resources

But again, I understood the move, I just felt (and still feel) that they way overpaid again due to panicking that someone else was going to sign Flynn, when in reality no one was even close to what we paid Flynn.

 

[Hawks46]

Lendale White wasn't signed, he was part of a draft day deal and thrown in along with Vickerson as players to take a flyer on. Didn't work out and he was cut. EJ Wilson was the bigger waste.

And for the poster saying there was no competition for Whitehurst, maybe the Cardinals having an offer as well for Charlie had something to do with the FO sweetening the pot. Schneider had a warm and fuzzy for the guy, turns out he was an expensive fallback, just like Flynn. As Wilson showed, you have to do what you need to get a QB. Whitehurst, Flynn and TJack were early attempts at it.

Anyway, I vote Moffitt. Cable can get the lower or undrafted guys going, but it would help if Britt makes a big impact.

You know, I'd completely forgotten that the Cards were hot and heavy after Whitehurst as well. In retrospect, that isn't that big of a mess up if we had competition for a guy we wanted and we had to up the ante.

EJ Wilson is being mentioned, but he was what, a 4th rounder ? It's hard to call a guy in the 4th round a bust when half of them don't play out their rookie contracts and are out of the league.

I'm still not too busted up about Carpenter either. Sure, we could've taken him in the 2nd, but like I said....a lot of Tackles get moved inside and play Guard well, so it's really a position that many times comes with a parachute. It's also one of the reasons why Tackles are drafted so much higher than other OLmen.

If I were to say Whitehurst, Sims and Vickerson...that's not really a long list of screw ups and it's not really all that bad. I look at it like this: if we had a player on our team, let him go without adequate compensation, then struggle to replace him, that's worse than drafting a guy and him not working out. Next is giving up draft picks and not being able to fill needs.

A lot of these decisions aren't all that bad. People are complaining about Flynn's contract, but it's not like it put us in cap hell.We also didn't pay him his entire contract. A lot of the players that washed out did so because of an increasingly deeper squad that was developing.

 

[MidwestHawker]

The best thing about the Flynn deal is that we went into that draft not feeling like we had to reach for a QB early. Maybe we pull the trigger on Wilson in the second round if not for Flynn, or maybe JS is blowing smoke about Wilson being as far up our board as he was and he could have taken someone else.

I would say that at the very least we can thank the Flynn signing for drafting Wagner. There's a chance that signing Flynn is the reason we got Wilson. The domino effect of these types of transactions ranges far and wide.

 

[drdiags]

Charlie Whitehurst, (lost 3rd round pick in 2011, about 20 spaces in 2nd round (2010), and $10 million...his lone highlight was beating a 6-9 Rams team to win the NFC West in '10, while that win lead to the Saints getting Beast-Quaked, the Seahawks potentially could have had their pick of JJ Watt or Robert Quinn. That would have led to no James Carpenter unless he fell to the Seahawks pick in the 2nd round and probably no Bruce Irvin the next year.

Some nice points in this but for the record, the Rams were 7-8 when they played the 6-9 Seahawks for the right to rep the NFC West. They ended up 7-9, just like the Seahawks but lost the NFCW div title due to the Seahawks having a better divisional record (4-2 vs 3-3). Rams dropped the ball, could have ended up 8-8, saved the world from the sanctimonious griping about a 7-9 team getting home field and the Seahawks would have had better draft position.

I take the win, title and Beastquake with no apologies offered. The draft thing seems kind of silly. Why punish an over-achieving team their rightful need to replenish just because they sucked less than the rest in their division? But, that is the way it goes.

EDIT: Typo fixed. If others exist, cannot see them.

 

[Seahawker86]

Clip board Jesus.

For the simple fact that it cost of the draft picks that were needed to draft Brandon Marshall. Yes yes we over came the loss and eventually who won the Superbowl(yay) but who is to say we wouldn't have won it the year before with him.

 

[hawknation2014]

Like keeping Alvin Bailey on the bench while McQuistan and Bowie were getting Wilson killed.

Bowie played extremely well last year. Bailey eventually earned a role as the starter in the jumbo package. Those two show a lot of promise.

McQuistan . . . well, at least they didn't re-sign him.

 

[DavidSeven]

The best thing about the Flynn deal is that we went into that draft not feeling like we had to reach for a QB early. Maybe we pull the trigger on Wilson in the second round if not for Flynn, or maybe JS is blowing smoke about Wilson being as far up our board as he was and he could have taken someone else.

I would say that at the very least we can thank the Flynn signing for drafting Wagner. There's a chance that signing Flynn is the reason we got Wilson. The domino effect of these types of transactions ranges far and wide.

This is the very reason why I don't really have any issue with the Flynn deal. Plus, we flipped him for compensation and didn't really sacrifice much in terms of cap space. Flynn got rich, but the team was never all-in on him and left itself outs. It was all actually pretty savvy IMO. At the end of the day, the end-goal was realized: franchise QB obtained.

 

[MidwestHawker]

Or cutting some of their most impressive preseason performers to make room for crappy players like Mike Person and John Lotulelei. Or benching their future star RB for Robert Turbin. I know pass protection is important in that role, but our running game struggled on a per carry basis most of last season and Turbin's ineffectiveness was a part of that.

I mean I sort of agree since I only have access to the same information that you do, but obviously we also have to realize that preseason game performance is only one data point in deciding a final roster. It's tough to second-guess any of those moves too hard when we don't have the footage of practice to review also.

 

[General Manager]

Right now I'd say Bruce Irvin he just hasn't panned out as anything but a situational pass rusher. They could have gotten that in a later round. They simply didn't need to use the 15th pick for that. They have been very good in the draft overall though so that's all that really matters.

 

[conman14]

Surely it's a bit unfair to be calling out players who are still on the team, like Carp. We don't know how that's gonna pan out (although his fitness is questionable).

I've only been supporting this team for a couple of years, so the only big bust I know off is Flynn. Although I do know enough about CBJ to know that giving up anything for him was just wrong.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Right now I'd say Bruce Irvin he just hasn't panned out as anything but a situational pass rusher. They could have gotten that in a later round. They simply didn't need to use the 15th pick for that. They have been very good in the draft overall though so that's all that really matters.

2012 1st Round Pass-Rushers Career AV per PFREF

Chandler Jones (#21) 15 AV
Bruce Irvin (#15) 10 AV
Whitney Mercilus (#26) 10 AV
Quinton Coples (#16) 10 AV
Shea McClellin (#19) 6 AV
Nick Perry (#28) 5 AV
Melvin Ingram (# 17) 3 AV

Not bad for Irvin the rawest, smallest of the bunch, not to mention a developmental stalling suspension, and the positional change which I thought went better than expected.

And the reason Irvin was irrelevant last year compared to his rookie year wasn't because he was horrible, it wasn't because the suspension, it wasn't because the position change. It was because the Seahawks were able to sign Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril, owners for a combined 56 tackles, , 17 sacks, 10 FF, and 10 PD for a mere $8.3 m against the cap in 2013.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

CBJ

 

[MidwestHawker]

Surely it's a bit unfair to be calling out players who are still on the team, like Carp. We don't know how that's gonna pan out (although his fitness is questionable).

I've only been supporting this team for a couple of years, so the only big bust I know off is Flynn. Although I do know enough about CBJ to know that giving up anything for him was just wrong.

I mean, CBJ was almost certainly a bigger bust just from the standpoint that he got a chance to start games and failed. Flynn just lost a competition to a superior QB. Granted, Flynn going and getting cut by Oakland and then Buffalo quickly after that probably means that he was going to be a total bust here, but we just never got to see for sure. He never played a meaningful snap for us.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

O
3. Russell Okung (he's a good player when healthy but he's missed more games (20) than Carpenter(16) although Okung does have one more year of experience. However, Carpenter did not sign a contract worth 58 million over 6 years. Okung has NOT played 10 mil per year football. The sad thing is though Okung probably will make more in his first contract than Walter Jones did for much of his entire career. 6 years, 58 million.

We do not get the Super Bowl without Russell Okung, our 2012 Pro Bowl LT. To call that a bad pick, simply because he's missed some games due to injury, is ridiculous.

He's not a bad player. He's just not a dominant LT.

He's very well-rounded with above average abilities, and consistent when healthy but he's not always healthy, he commits way too many penalties especially false starts, and he gets beat way more often than you'd like.

None of that screams that he a 6 yr, 58 million dollar performer because he's not. He's not a top 5 LT, he's not a top 10 LT (maybe for 1 year out 4, big whoop).

Maybe we don't win or get to the Superbowl w/o Okung but you can say that virtually about every player that made plays especially in the NFC CG.

Just saying what the Seahawks invested in Russell Okung on his rookie deal, was a bad deal. Does that make him a bad pick, no, but imo it doesn't necessarily make it a good one either.

For instance, guys like Harvin and Sidney Rice, even though labeled "prone to injury" both proved themselves in the league for at least 4 years, and were making peanuts compared to their on field value before signing for good to great money on their 2nd contracts.

And even the argument with Carpenter that I made, his contract was 4 yrs between 7-8 million. His first 2 years marred with the injuries only counted a little over $3.125m against the cap.

Last year, Carp made a little over $2 mil. If Carp was veteran he would have been an average at best, unspectacular lineman capable of starting but inconsisent yet with possible untapped potential, or entering the twilight of his career, and/or has an injury history. That's pretty much the value Carp provided last year.

Carps average per year is less than $2 mil.

Okungs average per year is less than $10 mil.

Yet, everyone trashes on Carp like no other, like he's the worst lineman in the league with or without his injury situations, like he can't improve because he sucks so much. But even through all his struggles, he hasn't cost the team much.

Okung on the hand, gets treated with kid gloves like King Felix did when he was just a pudgy Prince. Everyone rationalizes his injuries as unfortunate accidents, wrong place, wrong time, he's not injury prone because he didn't have a history in college... just a lot of excuses for a player who's not even that dominant of a player even when he is healthy to justify a 58 million dollar investment for a rookie.

And the saddest news of which I'm hearing is that because Okung got paid like that on his rookie deal he's going to want similar money if not more on his 2nd contract. Just not worth it.

And to clarify one more time Okung is a good to great at times player but he still has a lot of concerns and weaknesses as well. If he made $15-20 million less, this would be a non-issue because he would be getting paid about his value in my opinion and that to me is why its a "bad pick".

 

[Vetamur]

CBJ.. like I said at the time..what are the odds that San Diego's 3rd best QB was going to be better than our best?

 

[CEHawk]

It HAS to be Sidney Rice.

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy and think he is a capable player when healthy, but since we have the benefit of looking at it retrospectively, we have paid over 20 million for him over 3 seasons for 1,463 regular season yards, i.e. less than 500 yards a season.

At least with Flynn and Whitehurst we were able to get rid of them sharpish

I have to agree with you 100% on Rice. We also didn't have much choice when we acquired Whitehurst.

 

[bjornanderson21]

Easy, the percy harvin trade.

The only move in hawks history that rivals the harvin trade is drafting Curry.

It just goes to show how good Schneider has been overall. He managed to make the worst or 2nd worst move in Hawks history and we STILL won the super bowl. That is not easy to do.

Without a doubt they have made waaaaaaay more good moves than bad and I look forward to more Lombardis


PS. To those saying Rice is the worst move, refresh your memory on what we paid rice and what we got in return, and what we gave up for Harvin and got in return (much less than rice).

Harvin costs more $, we gave up valuable draft picks, and he can't play 2 games in a row.

There is not a single category where the Rice signing is worse than the Harvin trade.

 

[MidwestHawker]

The only move in hawks history that rivals the harvin trade is drafting Curry.

 

[hawknation2014]

O
3. Russell Okung (he's a good player when healthy but he's missed more games (20) than Carpenter(16) although Okung does have one more year of experience. However, Carpenter did not sign a contract worth 58 million over 6 years. Okung has NOT played 10 mil per year football. The sad thing is though Okung probably will make more in his first contract than Walter Jones did for much of his entire career. 6 years, 58 million.

We do not get the Super Bowl without Russell Okung, our 2012 Pro Bowl LT. To call that a bad pick, simply because he's missed some games due to injury, is ridiculous.

He's not a bad player. He's just not a dominant LT.

Okung is a great player if you know anything about offensive line play. To call him one of the Top 5 worst decisions by Carroll/Schneider is beyond absurd. Okung is a Top 10 OT, as one of the most dominant run blockers in the league. He showed that game after game during the 2012 season. He only missed games last year while struggling through a foot injury that required surgery, but when it really mattered, Okung was there and he was dominant. He opened up some huge holes in the NFC Championship Game, and there is no way we win that game without Okung dominating the line of scrimmage and giving Wilson enough time to make things happen downfield.

Watch Okung manhandle Justin Smith on Marshawn's TD. Without Okung taking Smith out of this play, Marshawn never would have had the opportunity to break through the left B gap into open space.