Watching Mahomes/Allen, I like Wilson less

[JayhawkMike]

RW could not do what either of those QBs did. He doesn’t have the ability. I’ve been on the Fire PC Keep RW wagon for a while but know I’m not sure RW is a even fringe top 10 QB. You can blame it on system, age or something else but now RW has 1 playoff game win in 5 years ans Stafford and Burrows have 2.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I watched the game and dislike Carroll even more. Reid and McDermott are so above him in the coaching arena that it’s embarrassing. Mahoney and Allen couldn’t have done what they did last night under Carroll either.

 

[JayhawkMike]

I watched the game and dislike Carroll even more. Reid and McDermott are so above him in the coaching arena that it’s embarrassing. Mahoney and Allen couldn’t have done what they did last night under Carroll either.

I agree with you on all of that too.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Rodgers lost to Jimmy G. Brady lost to Stafford. It’s not always the QB.

 

[SeaWolv]

RW could not do what either of those QBs did. He doesn’t have the ability. I’ve been on the Fire PC Keep RW wagon for a while but know I’m not sure RW is a even fringe top 10 QB. You can blame it on system, age or something else but now RW has 1 playoff game win in 5 years ans Stafford and Burrows have 2.

A LOT of Lions fans thought the same thing about Matt Stafford...

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I don't like Wilson less, but I do miss his peak mobility, quickness and speed.

Watching Allen and Mahomes escape the pocket and run makes me long for the younger Russell.

 

[nutluck]

This is why it is very hard to say just how good a QB is or not against any other QB. How good the running game is, how good the OL, or defense. How good the coaches are at coaching up players, how good they are at scheming games against their opponent and then how good are they at making game time adjustments all play into things.

I don't think it is fair most times to say just how good a QB is until you see them on more than one team. Like as much as I dislike Brady(just because I get tired of everyone talking about him) he went from one team to another and is playing as good maybe even better on the new team and he is older. To me that does prove he is a great QB. Same thing with Peyton. I personal thought Stafford was a borderline top 10 QB but with the Rams he is changing my mind into thinking he might be a borderline top 5. We will see next year if he plays as good then as he did this year or better than I will say he is and a lot of his problems was just the Lions and not him.

If Wilson ever goes to another team it will be very interesting to see how good he does and see how much of the offense being the way it is, is on him and how much is on Pete.

 

[nwHawk]

The almighty Aaron Rodgers is 11-10 in the playoffs.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

and 1-4 in Championship games, and has ONE Super Bowl. But hey, stats and MVP's are somehow just as important as playoff success :?
Mr. walk on water lost to a team that had 6 POINTS OF OFFENSE, AT HOME. And with Jimmy G doing little to nothing. But year after year, the worship will continue.

 

[Seattle Person]

I agree and disagree.

I agree that Mahomes and Allen are better because they are different players. Yes...we have seen Wilson go off and spurts but he's not either of those QBs. To use a baseball analogy -- he's not ARod, Barry Bonds, or a power hitter that's going to blow you away with their numbers. Not saying he can't do it but that's not his game. Wilson needs to understand that. His biggest strength is playing with efficiency. Being highly accurate and being consistent with his numbers. He doesn't have to throw over 5,000 yards and over 40 TDs to be highly effective. I think he's just going for the homers every time and I think that diminishes his effectiveness.

I disagree that QB is not a top 10 QB. You do realize he threw for more TDs than Tannehill, Hurts, Murray, and some of the other QBs in the playoffs? That's with missing 3 games and a couple games when he got hurt and he came back too soon to be effective. He's easily a top 10 QB but he needs to temper himself and realize his strengths and stop dreaming of his legacy...He needs to start playing within himself again but Carroll also need to put the ball in Russell's hands when it's time. That doesn't mean let him chuck every time. It means let him take over the game when needed.

Just my thoughts.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

RW could not do what either of those QBs did. He doesn’t have the ability. I’ve been on the Fire PC Keep RW wagon for a while but know I’m not sure RW is a even fringe top 10 QB. You can blame it on system, age or something else but now RW has 1 playoff game win in 5 years ans Stafford and Burrows have 2.

Quick, JayhawkMike, it’s not too late, retract this before others (we know who they are) here see this, and destroys your opinion because it doesn’t match with theirs!

Also, remember, you have no journalistic sources!

You need to list your credible sources in order to make your opinions!

/sarcasm

 

[hox]

Not gonna lie - watching Mahomes and Allen play yesterday and the week prior, I got a little QB envy. Both are dual threat QBs, who can navigate the pocket well and make the big running play when needed.

 

[AROS]

I agree and disagree.

I agree that Mahomes and Allen are better because they are different players. Yes...we have seen Wilson go off and spurts but he's not either of those QBs. To use a baseball analogy -- he's not ARod, Barry Bonds, or a power hitter that's going to blow you away with their numbers. Not saying he can't do it but that's not his game. Wilson needs to understand that. His biggest strength is playing with efficiency. Being highly accurate and being consistent with his numbers. He doesn't have to throw over 5,000 yards and over 40 TDs to be highly effective. I think he's just going for the homers every time and I think that diminishes his effectiveness.

I disagree that QB is not a top 10 QB. You do realize he threw for more TDs than Tannehill, Hurts, Murray, and some of the other QBs in the playoffs? That's with missing 3 games and a couple games when he got hurt and he came back too soon to be effective. He's easily a top 10 QB but he needs to temper himself and realize his strengths and stop dreaming of his legacy...He needs to start playing within himself again but Carroll also need to put the ball in Russell's hands when it's time. That doesn't mean let him chuck every time. It means let him take over the game when needed.

Just my thoughts.

Excellent thoughts. Stick around.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

After watching recently - gimmie Allen any day of the week.

Dude is a dual threat. Triple if you count the fact that he RUNS THROUGH people.

Doesn't just spin and deke to the side. I saw him run through people at LEAST 3 times yesterday. That's not tricky - that's guts. And he's not afraid of contact either. I saw that multiple times.

If Russ wants to be an Ass, Santa, please bring us a triple threat quarterback like Allen for Christmas.

Yea. I want that. Dude's tall too!

I saw a few throws yesterday that I haven't seen in a while. Bills/Chiefs was game of the weekend IMHO. It was certainly the most fun to watch.

 

[TwistedHusky]

It feels like there is some weird campaign to try to diminish people's perception of Wilson so we don't feel bad when we lose/trade him.

It makes sense. Just not sure what to think of it.

Wilson has literally come back multiple times in the 4th quarter. FOR YEARS. He has won overtime games by scoring the TD, leading to everyone clamoring about how we need to change overtime rules.

He is one of the most clutch players in the NFL under pressure and not sure why this year when he was injured, is being used as the benchmark.

I'm supposed to be a freaking 'Wilson Hater' and even I know this.

Wilson could absolutely do what they both did last night, with the exception that his coach would be trying to run the ball with a minute left on the clock from the 50.

What Mahomes and Allen have is competent, capable coaching that facilitates their success. They get to succeed with their coach, not despite him. Big difference.

Even so, pretending Wilson somehow is no longer viable because he was injured and because Carroll forces some sort of ridiculous run first, run most offense with a sprinkling of homage to Rex Grossman/Jeff Blake - is probably not fair.

He isn't Allen or Mahomes, but he likely would be just as dangerous with a coach that could build effective gameplans around his ability to contribute.

https://www.nfl.com/photos/mind-bogglin ... 0001025270
(These stats are a little old. They are still relevant.)

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He isn't Allen or Mahomes, but he likely would be just as dangerous with a coach that could build effective gameplans around his ability to contribute.

https://www.nfl.com/photos/mind-bogglin ... 0001025270
(These stats are a little old. They are still relevant.)

This IMO will be the greatest false narrative of Russell Wilson's career in Seattle, that Pete wasted his career or didn't use him correctly.

When the reality is it's more clear now than it's ever been, after three offensive coordinators in four years that Pete has been taking advantage of Russell's strengths for 11 years.

The only thing that's changed is Russell's slowing down and can no longer escape as often to do what he does best, scramble, play action and make explosive plays downfield off script.

Thus why the 4th quarter comebacks and clutch plays have greatly diminished the past two seasons.

 

[AROS]

It feels like there is some weird campaign to try to diminish people's perception of Wilson so we don't feel bad when we lose/trade him.

Good post Twisted...I agree...It's an odd thing to behold. This man is going to the HoF one day, potentially first ballot, and yet we have fans who seem to have this revisionist history to suit their narrative. Whatever floats your boat. I've been a diehard from day 1 and I can assure any fellow 12 that Russell Wilson is by far and away the best QB this team has ever had, and for all I know the best QB this team will EVER have before it's my time to meet my maker.

I just don't resonate with much of the debate going on right now in regards to Russ. Yes, I've always admitted to being a "Fan Boy" of sorts but I am also a grown ass man with eyes and ears and intelligence and I just simply think there's a lot of emotional-based analysis going on here on .NET and not enough critical, unbiased analysis.

I say this to BOTH sides...Remove your agendas and bias and be open minded and see the situation for what it really is and not what you want it to be. Everyone's opinion matters of course, but at the end of the day, like buttholes, we all got 'em but it doesn't make one's better over the other.

I want to look at Russ objectively, not through Fan Boy goggles. I see many things I can comment on but it's not really adding anything new to the conversation. What fascinates me most as someone who considered a career in psychology is how I am seeing this "Shaun Alexander Effect" beginning to transpire to Russell Wilson. A fantastic, generational player that ends up being a pariah of sorts...Somehow looked back on for perceived deficiencies to create this collective narrative that suits their needs or take.

Fascinating.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Maybe Aros.

But if you remember, you called me out for me wanting to trade Wilson to the Jets instead of extending him.

I KNEW Carroll's predilections would prevent Wilson from being effective as a playoff threat here.

Figured it made more sense to plug the gaps in the defense, load back up, find a mobile QB that could potentially allow us to use a similar offense (maybe that Mahomes kid) and be a playoff team based on elite defense.

In hindsight, that was wrong.

We got years of being a top team in the regular season. Unless we got Mahomes, not sure we would have been otherwise. Years of Wilson bringing us back after Carroll did little to nothing for the 1st half if not 3 quarters.

This league is a league of the HAVES and HAVENOTS. The HAVES have a great, if not elite, QB.

The HAVENOTS do not, and like the Titans - even with everything else in place....find it will never be enough. The 49ers are bucking this trend, but just barely...and it is taking everything for them to succeed despite this.
(Nothing that can really be replicated easily or even likely though.)

You can squeak into the playoffs every now and then without a star QB. But to be a playoff regular, you almost have to have a top-tier QB.

The rules, the marketing, the face of the franchise...all of it revolves around the QB. Teams without a top tier QB are hamstrung and at a disadvantage.

We, for now, are in the HAVES category. We should probably appreciate it because soon it will not be the case.

 

[edogg23]

I would definitely say that at this point in their careers, both Allen and Mahomes are in a completely different tier than Wilson.

 

[chris98251]

Mahomes and Allen have something Wilson does not, height and can climb the pocket or roll out, Wilson has to wait for traffic to clear for lanes a lot more, how many plays did we see them clear the center of the field and hit a receiver crossing shallow and deep and get yards after catch on both teams or wait for a pick and clear and hit a receiver, or a TE block and release to be hit down field, that is the limitations we face with Wilson which means we have to adjust in other ways to take advantage of his strengths.