Was the Niners roughing the passer penalty the right call?

[VivaEfrenHerrera]

I'm gonna be way in the minority on this one, but that's an easy call to me. I want that called all day and all night. I want it called when Wilson takes one of those and I extend the same courtesy to Papaki and even the Rapist. Hard hits are part (and need to stay part) of the game but I can live without a lot of the mindless, unnecessary brutality. Dude easily could have hit him lower and still put a huge, jarring shot on a quarterback. Easily.

The game's better all around when the best players are on the field and to my mind, we need fewer attempts to injure the opponent, not more. Flag that crap out, all the way out.

 

[Msfann]

In the past that wasn't a penalty at all unless it happened after the ball was thrown, I think calling roughing while the qb still has the ball is dumb. Unless it's a blow to the head or something which this clearly wasn't.

I've only seen this gif here but to me it looks like a great clean hit.

 

[253hawk]

Except the penalty wasn't for roughing the passer, it was for hands/arms to the neck. It's pretty rarely called, but it's in there. We know all about clean hits that get flagged so...

Flagrant striking, kicking, or kneeing an opponent or striking him on head or neck with heel, back or side of hand wrist, elbow, or forearm

It's not like SF didn't get the ball back with a chance to win the game AND dodged an intentional grounding call. AND ran into the fair catch to shorten the field for the Saints. They just plain choked.

 

[Polaris]

The D-Lineman's arm hit Brees' neck. The rule not only covers hit to the head but to the neck as well. It was clearly not intentional, but that IS the rule, and these days that rule is enforced. It was the right call abeit ticky-tack.

 

[hawker84]

I would have been ok with no flag on that play. Having said that F**k the whiners. Not like they were moving the ball up and down the field all day, they had -7 yrds of offense in the 4th qrter, they deserved to lose. no guarentee that fumble would have led to a win anyways... If Bree's has the ball in his hands with any time on the clock, Saints are still in the game.

 

[Popeyejones]

I thought it was a bad call. I also thought it was a game changing call.

That said:

*Kap knocking out the ball after his INT and the 9ers getting the ball back was also a game changing play.

*Frank Gore dropping a 3rd down pass past the sticks with nothing but open field ahead of him in the 4th quarter was also a game changing play.

It's why you can't just blame losses on the refs. Switch one of those plays and the 9ers might not have even been in it at that point. Switch another one of those plays and the Saints might not have even been in it at that point. It was a bad call IMO, but it is what it is. Oh well.

FWIW, re: the Kap throwaway, for it to be intentional grounding he'd have to be inside the tackle box. Anthony Davis is the tackle. He was well outside of Anthony Davis when he threw it away, which is why the ref even said he was "well outside" of the tackle box when explaining the play.

 

[Shadowhawk]

I am amazed at how many people appear to be dumbfouned by the call seeing has how the refs have been calling anything close to head/neck and knees on QBs all year long. This isn't exactly an isolated incident.

This. I didn't like the call but it was consistent with the way officials have been calling hits to the QB. In my opinion the league has gone too far trying to protect quarterbacks (and "defenseless receivers") and that's a shame, but this call was hardly an outlier.

Hell, last week Michael Bennett was flagged AND fined for tackling Matt Ryan around his ankles. That was a worse call than this one.

 

[Cartire]

FWIW, re: the Kap throwaway, for it to be intentional grounding he'd have to be inside the tackle box. Anthony Davis is the tackle. He was well outside of Anthony Davis when he threw it away, which is why the ref even said he was "well outside" of the tackle box when explaining the play.

It's where Davis lines up, not where he is when kaep throws. He lined up inside the hash mark and was pushed five feet back. Kaep threw right inside the hash mark when he got rid of it. It was borderline at best.

 

[AbsolutNET]

I bet if you watch the play in full speed it looks like Brees gets clothes-lined, which is a penalty in the league. I doubt anyone likes it, but there's no question that kind of hit on a QB will get called in any game.

 

[nanomoz]

It's questionable, for sure. But I think, since it looked like a clothesline at full speed, it will usually be called.

 

[Laloosh]

Picture is worth a thousand words...

 

[JGfromtheNW]

That's hilarious, EC.

 

[loafoftatupu]

I can only say I didn't like the call. I have no idea what's legal or illegal anymore. Rules, and interpretations of the rules, seem to change week to week, team to team, these days.

True.

as for the game itself, poor play aside and even poorer coaching/playcalling aside, that was a garbage call that completely swung the game around.

Btw, if Brooks had "hit the neck of the QB" like that clueless ref described, Brooks would have killed Brees.

Borderline call but its ludicrous to say that it was "game altering". The odds of the putrid 9ers offense (who had negative yardage in the quarter I believe), doing anything but handing the ball back to NO after a quick 3 and out was extremely low.

lol, I'm not going to get into a pissing match here but I will say this. if you don't think a 4th turnover like that, when the opposing team is in field goal range and is knocking on the door to tie the game with only a few precious minutes left, getting overturned based a godawful call is "game altering" then please, enlighten me and tell me what is.

Hey man.. The Niners played a lot of crappy football in that game. They are not however the only team getting screwed over by shitty calls. We acknowledge the shit call but ask that you remember the choir you are preaching to. This crap has been happening all year.

Harbaugh was outcoached yesterday and Kaeperstank was still missing something. Running out of bounds? How bout that stupid penalty on the fair catch?

Tell me you didn't see the Bennett call the week before. That call surrounded several others, that literally brought the Falcons down the field. I know you saw the Colts game. Bet you loved the officiating in that one.

The Niners are still good enough to get in and do some damage, but they are going to have to play above this other stuff, heck man, they are still struggling to get plays off. REALLY?!?!?

 

[JGfromtheNW]

From WZ...

I fell in love with this game and the 49ers watching Ronnie Lott. After watching the league rob this team of a win for a good hit on the midget, I am finally done. Has boxing changed? UFC? No. Their entire goal is to concuss. As long as ratings keep going up for turning this sport into badminton, the game will change into something no longer recognizable. Put a skirt on the QB, pillows on players heads and, for god's sake, DON'T HURT ANYONE!!!

:thirishdrinkers:

 

[lvnginhwktwn]

I am amazed at how many people appear to be dumbfouned by the call seeing has how the refs have been calling anything close to head/neck and knees on QBs all year long. This isn't exactly an isolated incident.

This. I didn't like the call but it was consistent with the way officials have been calling hits to the QB. In my opinion the league has gone too far trying to protect quarterbacks (and "defenseless receivers") and that's a shame, but this call was hardly an outlier.

Hell, last week Michael Bennett was flagged AND fined for tackling Matt Ryan around his ankles. That was a worse call than this one.

I would be more inclined to accept the call if the flag came out right away, flag didn't come out until ref saw the fumble and it was recovered by SF. And if that wasn't Drew Brees or one of the other "protected" QBs that call wouldn't have happened.

Like I said in another post, it's time for the NFL to hire, train and maintain full time refs, not lawyers, Drs. and school teachers working the weekend. The league needs refs that just ref, not worried about their other job, or the patients they have or the up coming court case on Monday morning. How good to you think the players would be if they work a full time job during the week and only played once a week. The league needs to set the same principles for the refs as the players.

If they make big mistakes calling a game or do something else to get them fired, its no big deal they still have their other jobs to fall back on, where is the motivation to be as good as you can be.

 

[Sports Hernia]

It's borderline in slow-mo but looked like a clear cut personal foul in real time. SF lucked out on NO's muffed punt, a blown pick-6 and a non-safety call on Kaep. They should hardly have anything to complain about. They were given more than enough bounces to win this game.

It was a borderline call, they are going to call anything around the head and neck especially when it's against the Bree's, Brady's, Manning's, Roger's of the world as the NFL has to protect their poster boys.

It wasn't as bad as Michael Bennett's roughing the passer call when he was on the ground and held Ryan's feet together for the sack.

 

[AbsolutNET]

I would be more inclined to accept the call if the flag came out right away, flag didn't come out until ref saw the fumble and it was recovered by SF. And if that wasn't Drew Brees or one of the other "protected" QBs that call wouldn't have happened.

I'm not buying that, he pulled it and threw it pretty quickly. It would have been called on any qb in any game, imo. If you watch it in full speed, it looks like he got clothes lined above the shoulders.

I do agree with the rest of your post though. With the amount of money the league pulls in, skimping on full time refs is ridiculous. They get paid pretty well as it is after being around a few years, why not make them full time?

 

[lvnginhwktwn]

I would be more inclined to accept the call if the flag came out right away, flag didn't come out until ref saw the fumble and it was recovered by SF. And if that wasn't Drew Brees or one of the other "protected" QBs that call wouldn't have happened.

I'm not buying that, he pulled it and threw it pretty quickly. It would have been called on any qb in any game, imo. If you watch it in full speed, it looks like he got clothes lined above the shoulders.

I do agree with the rest of your post though. With the amount of money the league pulls in, skimping on full time refs is ridiculous. They get paid pretty well as it is after being around a few years, why not make them full time?

Wouldn't have mattered anyway, it's Brees, Kaep got tackled around the neck in that game too, no call.

If I knew how to post pic I would show you.

 

[VivaEfrenHerrera]

I just need to throw out one little thing here. The reason that this hit "looked like a clothesline?" Because it was a freaking clothesline! What you think it's only a clothesline tackle if the defender hits 'em right on the point of the adam's apple? No. C'mon. Anyhow, here's a still of Brooks finishing the tackle, throwing Brees down by the neck.

 

[lvnginhwktwn]

I just need to throw out one little thing here. The reason that this hit "looked like a clothesline?" Because it was a freaking clothesline! What you think it's only a clothesline tackle if the defender hits 'em right on the point of the adam's apple? No. C'mon. Anyhow, here's a still of Brooks finishing the tackle, throwing Brees down by the neck.

Bullshit, like I said if I knew how to post a pic I would, you can clearly see Brooks has his arm across his chest, not his neck. And if you watch the play in full motion you will see that Bree's body goes back and his head goes forward, way forward. That wouldn't have happened it Brooks had him by the neck, neck and body both would have been moving back.

Anyone can post a pic at different angle as he is going down, try looking at pics of initial hit.

And in the same game Kaep gets tackled around the neck too, no call.

This call is just as much bullshit as the call when you guys tackled Ryan, back in the day they use to call it a "shoestring tackle", now its "roughing the passer" BULLSHIT!!!!