Tre Flowers is....

[Nunya_]

... young at the position, a tremendous salary/draft value, with plenty of room for improvement, and deserves to be challenged for the CB2 spot for 2020.

As long as Flowers is competing and challenging for his spot next year, that's fine. But that wasn't the case this year, he was given the #2 spot.

So yeah I'm fine with him being on the roster, but I still want to see us actively looking at trades, FA's and draft picks to upgrade the position.

Bet you don't say that to the wife

I made a huge mistake and signed her to a guaranteed contract with a no trade clause.

What??? You didn't even have a performance clause?

 

[MORGULON]

Still young and needs a bit more seasoning. Not ready to jettison him yet.

Agreed, he's 6'3"

 

[reddmmann]

a safety who should be playing safety (in the next year or 2, he will probably be a pretty good NFL safety for for the Seahawks or some other team).

 

[kf3339]

My issue isn't as much with Tre Flowers in the last game. You knew he would get beat by Adams on the vast majority of the matchup plays. What bothers me is that with only one real WR for GB, why does PC insist on keeping Shaq on the other side, and not have him cover Adams no matter where he lined up? You put your best cover corner on their best WR. That is football 101.

We don't have the other LOB players that can make up for this allignment, so change it. This is one thing with PC I just don't get.

As for Flowers he deserves another year to see what improvement he can make his third year. It would also help to have a true pass rush to take some of the pressure off the back end.

 

[Seahawk_Dan]

We don't have the other LOB players that can make up for this alignment, so change it. This is one thing with PC I just don't get.

This has always been Pete's problem. He's still game planning and running a defense as if he's still working with those superstars when he's not. With Pete it's always been talent vs talent. If our talent is better than it will win out with game plan just being the icing on top, or a necessity. However Seattle doesn't have that type of talent in the secondary anymore and it really, really shows.

 

[chris98251]

My issue isn't as much with Tre Flowers in the last game. You knew he would get beat by Adams on the vast majority of the matchup plays. What bothers me is that with only one real WR for GB, why does PC insist on keeping Shaq on the other side, and not have him cover Adams no matter where he lined up? You put your best cover corner on their best WR. That is football 101.

We don't have the other LOB players that can make up for this allignment, so change it. This is one thing with PC I just don't get.

As for Flowers he deserves another year to see what improvement he can make his third year. It would also help to have a true pass rush to take some of the pressure off the back end.

The type of receiver is the key, Shaq and Flowers are big guys that are not quick twitch, Adams is a dilemma in that he isn't small but small enough to have that quick twitch type move, why a good Nickel is necessary. Sherman had issues with these guys as well, why a guy like Coleman was so valuable.

 

[kf3339]

My issue isn't as much with Tre Flowers in the last game. You knew he would get beat by Adams on the vast majority of the matchup plays. What bothers me is that with only one real WR for GB, why does PC insist on keeping Shaq on the other side, and not have him cover Adams no matter where he lined up? You put your best cover corner on their best WR. That is football 101.

We don't have the other LOB players that can make up for this allignment, so change it. This is one thing with PC I just don't get.

As for Flowers he deserves another year to see what improvement he can make his third year. It would also help to have a true pass rush to take some of the pressure off the back end.

The type of receiver is the key, Shaq and Flowers are big guys that are not quick twitch, Adams is a dilemma in that he isn't small but small enough to have that quick twitch type move, why a good Nickel is necessary. Sherman had issues with these guys as well, why a guy like Coleman was so valuable.

Perhaps, but we don't have a Coleman on this team right now. At least I didn't see anyone near his abilities. What we did have was a near pro bowl corner sitting on the other side. If I have to roll with an elimination playoff game, I'm going with him. It he gets beat, it was at least against our best corner.

 

[flmmkrz]

My issue isn't as much with Tre Flowers in the last game. You knew he would get beat by Adams on the vast majority of the matchup plays. What bothers me is that with only one real WR for GB, why does PC insist on keeping Shaq on the other side, and not have him cover Adams no matter where he lined up? You put your best cover corner on their best WR. That is football 101.

We don't have the other LOB players that can make up for this allignment, so change it. This is one thing with PC I just don't get.

As for Flowers he deserves another year to see what improvement he can make his third year. It would also help to have a true pass rush to take some of the pressure off the back end.

The type of receiver is the key, Shaq and Flowers are big guys that are not quick twitch, Adams is a dilemma in that he isn't small but small enough to have that quick twitch type move, why a good Nickel is necessary. Sherman had issues with these guys as well, why a guy like Coleman was so valuable.

Perhaps, but we don't have a Coleman on this team right now. At least I didn't see anyone near his abilities. What we did have was a near pro bowl corner sitting on the other side. If I have to roll with an elimination playoff game, I'm going with him. It he gets beat, it was at least against our best corner.

exactly, if you go best on best and their best wins, tip of the hat but to concede by letting them choose their match up preference is just terrible.

 

[Seahwkgal]

We need to check for a viable replacement in FA who is not too old.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cornerback/

 

[Jville]

They are already working on building competition at corner back. Brian Allen was just signed to a futures contract yesterday. The 2020 process has already begun.

These are the best of times. :2thumbs:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

We need to check for a viable replacement in FA who is not too old.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cornerback/

Trade for Darius Slay.

- He's in the last year of his deal
- He hates it in Detroit
- Detroit's rebuilding, so why would they give a big extension to a 29 year old DB
- He's best friends with Diggs

Makes perfect sense for both sides. Give them one of our 2nd rounders for Slay, and give him a nice extension........and tell Flowers to take a seat over there.

 

[Seymour]

We need to check for a viable replacement in FA who is not too old.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cornerback/

Trade for Darius Slay.

- He's in the last year of his deal
- He hates it in Detroit
- Detroit's rebuilding, so why would they give a big extension to a 29 year old DB
- He's best friends with Diggs

Makes perfect sense for both sides. Give them one of our 2nd rounders for Slay, and give him a nice extension........and tell Flowers to take a seat over there.

I agree with everything except giving up a 2nd to fix this. I'd prefer to do this through the draft or FA and keep all our picks as that keeps the cap down and gives us more $$ to spend on quality players. Yes, we are pretty bad in the first 2 rounds, but we often turn those into more picks which raises the chance of finding that needle in the haystack.

That is largely how Pete and John "succeed" in the draft. More picks = better chances of finding that gem.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

We need to check for a viable replacement in FA who is not too old.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cornerback/

Trade for Darius Slay.

- He's in the last year of his deal
- He hates it in Detroit
- Detroit's rebuilding, so why would they give a big extension to a 29 year old DB
- He's best friends with Diggs

Makes perfect sense for both sides. Give them one of our 2nd rounders for Slay, and give him a nice extension........and tell Flowers to take a seat over there.

I agree with everything except giving up a 2nd to fix this. I'd prefer to do this through the draft or FA and keep all our picks as that keeps the cap down and gives us more $$ to spend on quality players. Yes, we are pretty bad in the first 2 rounds, but we often turn those into more picks which raises the chance of finding that needle in the haystack.

That is largely how Pete and John "succeed" in the draft. More picks = better chances of finding that gem.

I'd be OK with addressing the 2nd CB spot through the draft if we didn't have gaping holes all over the defense to address.

That's why I think Slay's a good option. Elite CB, and it probably would take a 2nd to pry him away from Detroit. If they're shopping him, we wouldn't be the only team interested.

Also if we address it in the draft that's not in the top half of the first round where you can get an elite CB that's NFL ready, then you're talking ANOTHER year or two of development, and IMO this team's in a SB window now. Going through another year or two of waiting to see if the CB works out would be painful.

 

[Seymour]

We need to check for a viable replacement in FA who is not too old.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cornerback/

Trade for Darius Slay.

- He's in the last year of his deal
- He hates it in Detroit
- Detroit's rebuilding, so why would they give a big extension to a 29 year old DB
- He's best friends with Diggs

Makes perfect sense for both sides. Give them one of our 2nd rounders for Slay, and give him a nice extension........and tell Flowers to take a seat over there.

I agree with everything except giving up a 2nd to fix this. I'd prefer to do this through the draft or FA and keep all our picks as that keeps the cap down and gives us more $$ to spend on quality players. Yes, we are pretty bad in the first 2 rounds, but we often turn those into more picks which raises the chance of finding that needle in the haystack.

That is largely how Pete and John "succeed" in the draft. More picks = better chances of finding that gem.

I'd be OK with addressing the 2nd CB spot through the draft if we didn't have gaping holes all over the defense to address.

That's why I think Slay's a good option. Elite CB, and it probably would take a 2nd to pry him away from Detroit. If they're shopping him, we wouldn't be the only team interested.

Also if we address it in the draft that's not in the top half of the first round where you can get an elite CB that's NFL ready, then you're talking ANOTHER year or two of development, and IMO this team's in a SB window now. Going through another year or two of waiting to see if the CB works out would be painful.

The highlighted section of your comment makes ZERO sense! You are not OK keeping and using the pick to address the need yet your solution uses the exact same pick to fill the need at 4+ times the cost on an already peaked player!!! DB's drop fast over 30. Also a FA solution KEEPS that pick! :34853_doh:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Trade for Darius Slay.

- He's in the last year of his deal
- He hates it in Detroit
- Detroit's rebuilding, so why would they give a big extension to a 29 year old DB
- He's best friends with Diggs

Makes perfect sense for both sides. Give them one of our 2nd rounders for Slay, and give him a nice extension........and tell Flowers to take a seat over there.

I agree with everything except giving up a 2nd to fix this. I'd prefer to do this through the draft or FA and keep all our picks as that keeps the cap down and gives us more $$ to spend on quality players. Yes, we are pretty bad in the first 2 rounds, but we often turn those into more picks which raises the chance of finding that needle in the haystack.

That is largely how Pete and John "succeed" in the draft. More picks = better chances of finding that gem.

I'd be OK with addressing the 2nd CB spot through the draft if we didn't have gaping holes all over the defense to address.

That's why I think Slay's a good option. Elite CB, and it probably would take a 2nd to pry him away from Detroit. If they're shopping him, we wouldn't be the only team interested.

Also if we address it in the draft that's not in the top half of the first round where you can get an elite CB that's NFL ready, then you're talking ANOTHER year or two of development, and IMO this team's in a SB window now. Going through another year or two of waiting to see if the CB works out would be painful.

The highlighted section of your comment makes ZERO sense! You are not OK keeping and using the pick to address the need yet your solution uses the exact same pick to fill the need at 4+ times the cost on an already peaked player!!! DB's drop fast over 30. Also a FA solution KEEPS that pick! :34853_doh:

Of course it makes sense.

Trading pick for proven talent > using pick for unproven talent.

I'm certainly not against going to FA, but IMO Slay is the better option over the FA CB's........and again I'd rather use cap elsewhere. You also might not have to give up a 2nd for Slay if you make the same promise you made Clowney, that you're not going to franchise tag him.

 

[Seymour]

No it doesn't! You said too many gaping holes to fill like you would use it elsewhere after you used it to get him. That makes no sense, you can only use it once.

 

[hawk45]

I like him. I think he tackles well and is usually in good position. I think he is just scratching the surface, he is what Tharold Simon was suppose to be and he will continue to get better. I think our Safety play of Tedric and Lano has been a much bigger weakness. Flowers will show up big time year 3. I bet he will be hungry and hopefully one of the most improved on our defense. Shaq sure took leaps year #3

He tackles well?

50% of the time he's in good position and 50% of the time he's committing PI.

Maybe, MAYBE he'd cut it as CB2 with prime LOB and Earl shading towards his side all game long. But Maxwell/Browner were physical corners who tackled well and produced turnovers whereas Flowers does neither of those things.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

As much as I would want this, Quinn/Patricia won't let Slay go nearly as easily as Diggs. That whole fanbase, even now, sees the Diggs trade as proof of Q/P incompetency. Both Q/P are on notice per Martha with a prove-it deal to make it to the playoffs for 2020; if not, no 2021. They won't willingly part with one of their few pieces that can help them succeed, especially if he's healthy.

The only way I see that changing is if Slay gets hurt AND exhibits an attitude (like Diggs) AND if the Lions are presented a Jalen Ramsey type trade prospect that they move their 2021 chips to get.

 

[Seahwkgal]

We need to check for a viable replacement in FA who is not too old.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cornerback/

Trade for Darius Slay.

- He's in the last year of his deal
- He hates it in Detroit
- Detroit's rebuilding, so why would they give a big extension to a 29 year old DB
- He's best friends with Diggs

Makes perfect sense for both sides. Give them one of our 2nd rounders for Slay, and give him a nice extension........and tell Flowers to take a seat over there.

:2thumbs:
I love Slay. He would thrive under Carroll.

 

[Reaneypark]

He’s bad and in this defense where he is left on an island against the best receiver on the other team, just putrid. He needs help and didn’t get it. Ken Norton Jr. should be fired for how poorly he designed the defensive game plan going into this game.