To all of the "Pete Ball" defenders

[John63]

"Pete Ball",,,,"Let Russ Cook",,,,,whatever. I'm just enjoying a win that I honestly did not think we would have.

Now going forward, I believe the scheme we ran against Atlanta is the one that is needed to progress throughout the season, but do I feel Pete will hold onto that,,,,,,Lord no. We've just seen it to many times before to doubt this will continue, but if it does, i'll gladly be the first one to eat crow.

What he said.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

+1, hoping, but I'll believe it when I see it. Fingers crossed this is more of what we see moving forward.
But, they go the W, now let's get a lot more of them, regardless how it looks.

 

[TwistedHusky]

For a first game, it was a treat. We can enjoy it.

We won't know if change comes until the playoffs. Because that is where it matters.

The rest is just catharsis.




The irony of this thread is that I fully expect to see 'Pete Ball' from Bill when we play the Patriots.

They likely will run the ball repeatedly, to keep the ball out of Wilson's hands. With the occasional deep shot to keep Adams off the LOS.

The Pats will go big and heavy with their QB running often. So will their RB and even FB if they have it.

 

[Bigpumpkin]

That screen pass and 3 blockers waiting.....a thing of beauty. Circle and underline that play Schotty…….

I could not believe my eyes either!!! When was the last time we have seen that in a game? :irishdrinkers:

 

[SoulfishHawk]

My wife was like "FINALLY, they do something different"
She does make a good point. Not that the formula hasn't work for years. But, switching it up, being creative and aggressive was SO good to see.

 

[raisethe3]

"Pete Ball" worked 2013-2014. But I think that's due to the elite #1 defense that we had.

Now that's no longer the case, so you'll have to adjust. I agree its time to let Russ cook! I really hope to see that type of action come every week.

 

[ivotuk]

"LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOOLOLLOO LOLOOLO ?"

What does that mean?

What is the point of this post? "I was right and you were wrong?"

I think we have a ways to go before we start making any blanket statements. There are times when the running game is called for, and times when passing is better. Like when your opponents defensive backfield is garbage.

 

[Fade]

Pete Ball is dead. Pete admitted it in the post game presser. Wilson was in charge of what they were doing on offense all off-season (in cooperation with Schotty), and they simply transferred what they had been doing to the game. This isn't changing. This is how they are going to play.

The days of predictably running into loaded boxes for 2 yds a carry, waiting around until the 4th quarter to then finally turn on the jets is done.

@Kiwi
It is not unusual for Wilson to throw 35 times in a game, yes. That is actually what he averaged last year. Like i have said many times it isn't about volume of throws versus runs. It is about variation, and coming out aggressive and playing offense for 4 quarters.

What was different was throwing the ball on early downs all game long. Instead of running into a brick wall and spinning your wheels for 3 quarters. Then Wilson having to throw the ball 20 times in the 4th quarter in an attempt make a furious comeback.

It is how you arrive at those 35 throws my friend.

====
This isn't an "I told you so thread." It is just shining light on the hypocrisy.

-> NeEd To EsTaBliSh tHe RuN, bEfOrE yOu CaN pAsS…
-> dOn'T tHrOw oN eArLy dOwNs.
-> dOn'T gO fOr It On 4Th DoWnS iN eNeMy TeRrIToRy iT iS bEtTeR tO pUnT iNsTeAd.
-> sTaRtInG sLoW iS oKaY, tHaT iS tHe "pHiLoSoPhY."

People who defended these things for years. Are now suddenly cool with the polar opposite. They should be pissed. it goes against their arguments they have been making for YEARS, but they are not of course. Hypocrites.

 

[ZagHawk]

I don't want Pete ball nor do I want "Let Russ Cook". Can we just have a team that imposes Belichick philosophy of winning:

"Belichick explained that his philosophy came back to that of "The Art of War," and in the process, made coaching football sound much easier than it looks.

"You can go all the way back to a few hundred years B.C., Sun Tzu, 'The Art of War.' Attack weaknesses, utilize strengths and figure out what the strengths are on your team. There are some things you have to protect. Find the weaknesses of your opponent, and attack.

You can't win a war by digging a hole. You gotta attack. You have to figure out where you want to attack, how you want to attack, and that changes week to week and game to game."


Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-be ... 0situation.


Seriously, I mean I feel like the above is a simple concept, play to your strengths but attack to your opponents weakness. If your strength happens to be the opponents strength, maybe do something else? If what you're doing is not working...Adapt.

 

[justafan]

Do you guys put on your clown shoes before you go to, or after you come home from work? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOOLOLLOO LOLOOLO.

The ones who fall in that camp, must condemn this current approach as it is completely antithetical to what they have been arguing season after season, FOR YEARS.

As they told us running into loaded boxes repeatedly was required for Wilson to be effective. Punting in enemy territory was smart football, and throwing on early downs was bad.

No matter how much evidence we presented to the contrary. Clowns decided to die on that hill.

Where is the conviction!? The "Let Russ Cook" proponents never wavered, the "Pete Ball" crowd seemed to have rolled over without a fight… Pathetic. LOL



Pete was wrong the whole time. Only when Wilson pretty much said it without saying it, that he was going to leave if things didn't change. THEN Pete folded like a lawn chair. LOL.

"Pete Ball" is garbo. I am glad to see it is dead. It cost the team many wins over the years, higher playoff seedings, and what could have been deep playoff runs.

The Seahawks may very well win the Superbowl this year if they keep up this aggressive, varied attack they displayed on Sunday. But more importantly it is about throwing your best punch and letting the chips fall where they may. Instead of holding back and wondering if they could've won the game had Wilson been more featured.

You can blow your horn or put people down if thats what you need to do. Last year Wilson averaged over 32 passes a game according to NFL.com. 3 more passes this game really wasnt worth a rambling post. ATL let Ryan cook and was 0-4 on fourth down but carry on sniffin your own farts.

 

[Fade]

and times when passing is better. Like when your opponents defensive backfield is garbage.

That will be nearly every week. No one has a defense that can cover Olsen, Dissly, Lockett, Metcalf, Carson out of the backfield, with a sprinkle of Gordon, all while accounting for Wilson's scrambling. Good luck.

There are times when the running game is called for-

When they face a garbage D-Line they feel like they can run on all day, of course they will take advantage of that. And stuff it down their throats.

The argument isn't passing vs. running, though. But Leyman's love to boil it down to that. It's when they are passing, and when they are running, while keeping the attack varied.

For example, running on 1st and 2nd down and throwing on 3rd down leads to the most likely scenario of punting league wide.

While passing on 1st down, and running on both 2nd and 3rd down leads to the highest chance of conversion league wide.

Both = 1 pass and 2 runs. But have polar opposite results.

Why would you build an offense around run, run, pass, punt? Seattle lead the league in that play sequence by a metric ton in 2018. I don't recall where they ended up last year. But I am sure they ranked highly. This year run, run, pass, punt will be happening in the 4th quarter after they've already blown out the opponent and they are just trying to run clock. Not as their gameplan to start. HUGE difference.

 

[Mad Dog]

I think a lot of the Pete Ball the last two years was because of the lack of playmakers on defense. Pete knew his defense would get shredded in the secondary if he got into a shootout. So he preferred to try to keep the games close and short and let it come down to Russ in the 4th quarter. And I generally will always bet on Russ in the 4th quarter.

This year we've got some playmakers in the secondary in Diggs and Adams. We can challenge them to throw the ball and play physical and force turnovers. So sprinting out to a lead and making the other team throw plays into the teeth of our defense as currently constructed.

I think Pete Ball will always rear its ugly head if Pete feels he can't win a track meet. His goal has always been to be balanced so that you can run when you can't throw and throw when you can't run. If you can do both on offense it's tough to stop you.

Balance is his mantra. Along with "it's all about the ball".

 

[jammerhawk]

C.mon let's not slip too much into hyperbole here.

There is little doubt RW was allowed to to cook in the gameplan against Atl. That was fun to watch and instead of a slow start the team starter quicker. It wasn't perfect, but it was better. Was that designed or a change-up to confound Atl.'s DC or their HC who has seen the much maligned "Pete ball"? We'll see soon enough. "Pete Ball" is a formula that has taken the team to the playoffs all but 1 season while Pete has been in charge. For me, success speaks volumes however, you be blind not to notice the opponent have done better and better defending it. I for one was happy to see change but I still want to see my team pound the other team early and often. There are a lot us here who have immense respect for Coach carroll even if some others here think he's a dinosaur. I suppose it's whatever flavour you like best, I suspect 31 other teams look at the Seahawks and see a well run team that has a winning record and has had so since Coach Carroll has been here, save the 1 season. Clown suit? Whatever.

There are many here who want to see RW play chuck and duck for the reason that he is an accurate passer. It's understandable but the season is long and the the OLine is still to my eyes better at run blocking than they are at pass protection and the team has at least two 1000 yard RBs they can get to pound the ball and punish opposing D's. Play selection, defensive decisions, poor ST execution, are ultimately on Pete who oversees his coordinators, but faulting the team for the gameplan in the Atlanta game is just flat out wrong. There were however enough mistakes made to keep the coaches busy this week with coachable training moments, and coachable mistake correction.

All in all I'm happy with an opening game early starting east coast road W. It was yet another in now a steady string of east coast early road games 3 time zones away and was a convincing W. Their QB Ryan throwing for 450 just indicates how one dimensional the Hawks made the Falcons. I for one am not buying that the pass D sucks. For all that yardage the Hawks D held them off the scoreboard effectively and well until garbage time. I still want to see a better pass rush.

There certainly was a lot to be happy about and some truly fixable other stuff. I agree with Zag. I doubt Pete ball is dead just as much as RW will not be allowed to cook early and often every game. The concept is simply to win and you do that however you can.

To me it was an encouraging start.

 

[xray]

Carroll will use whatever offense will work for each individual opponent this season . There will plenty of games when run 1st is the offense again .

 

[ZagHawk]

Carroll will use whatever offense will work for each individual opponent this season . There will plenty of games when run 1st is the offense again .

I hope so...I just hope when pass first is what should work he uses that option vs all previous season...run first..run first....oh it's not working? keep running it'll open up...oh we're down 14 points with 8 minutes to go? oh crap..okay Russ go figure it out have fun.

 

[TwistedHusky]

It worked. But it worked for the most part against the crappy teams.

It was an illusion like that 100+ win Mariner team. When the field narrows and you face better opponents it all falls apart.

Did it make us seem better than we were or simply hold us back? No idea.

What I do know is we have not been a serious threat in the playoffs since our SB loss. And it was godawful ugly football. I used to purposely miss the first half FOR YEARS. Because I knew we would do nothing unless we fell behind.

The weirdest part is it is almost the opposite of playoff winning football. You run the clock down at the end with a lead, not at the beginning with a deficit or a gooseegg.

Sure running the football repeatedly tires out the opposing defense. So does putting 38 up on them.

 

[scutterhawk]

Do you guys put on your clown shoes before you go to, or after you come home from work? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOOLOLLOO LOLOOLO.

The ones who fall in that camp, must condemn this current approach as it is completely antithetical to what they have been arguing season after season, FOR YEARS.

As they told us running into loaded boxes repeatedly was required for Wilson to be effective. Punting in enemy territory was smart football, and throwing on early downs was bad.

No matter how much evidence we presented to the contrary. Clowns decided to die on that hill.

Where is the conviction!? The "Let Russ Cook" proponents never wavered, the "Pete Ball" crowd seemed to have rolled over without a fight… Pathetic. LOL



Pete was wrong the whole time. Only when Wilson pretty much said it without saying it, that he was going to leave if things didn't change. THEN Pete folded like a lawn chair. LOL.

"Pete Ball" is garbo. I am glad to see it is dead. It cost the team many wins over the years, higher playoff seedings, and what could have been deep playoff runs.

The Seahawks may very well win the Superbowl this year if they keep up this aggressive, varied attack they displayed on Sunday. But more importantly it is about throwing your best punch and letting the chips fall where they may. Instead of holding back and wondering if they could've won the game had Wilson been more featured.

LOLOL Okay I'll bite, what's wrong with putting your best foot forward?...The last few Seasons Defensive Secondary SUCKED & Big Balls Pete had to make silk purses out of sow's ears, now-> Some of y'all are going to have to acknowledge that Pete & Co. got real aggressive, and gave a pass to 'Big Bucks' Clowney, and then went out and FIXED the anemic Secondary by going after Dunbar & Hocking their socks AND shorts for Jamal Adams.
The Offense got down off'n the porch and ran with the big dawgs...In other words, as a wise old Seahawks Coach use to say "You Have Play With The Hand You're Dealt"

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

This is Russell Wilson’s team.

 

[LTH]

Both mantras are over simplified, Pete Ball, Let Russ Cook.

What we saw Sunday is not Pete just finally unleashing Russell, it was Pete giving Russell and Schotty more freedom within the confines of the scheme, playcalling and letting Russ make timely and key in game decisions (going for it on 4th and 5).

Saw some of that last year (Cleveland game), and that progression is continuing more this year.

Btw, only two QB's had more TD passes in their first eight seasons than Russell, Dan Marino and Peyton Manning. So this false narrative that Russell hasn't been allowed to throw the ball more is fictional. Yep, Pete likes (and still does) balance with a punishing run game.

If you or anyone think that's going to change, you're sorely mistaken. Pete still wants to run the ball, he's just allowing Russell and Schotty more rope on finding creative ways to do it.

I agree...

let me add to that the Hawks almost had to run the ball last year because Wilson was getting sacked remember the first two games last year when they tried to open it up and it didn't quite work out...... But obviously at least against Atlanta they felt like they could opened it up a bit... O line played well..

Now BB saw that what's he thinking? How is he going to attack the Hawks O... where is the weakness? Pretty solid O that can KILL you from several different positions... what a nightmare it must be to have to defend...

Lets see what they do against the Pats... the Hawks O is a well coached diverse offense so far lets see how consistant they are...

LTH

 

[LTH]

Do you guys put on your clown shoes before you go to, or after you come home from work? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOOLOLLOO LOLOOLO.

The ones who fall in that camp, must condemn this current approach as it is completely antithetical to what they have been arguing season after season, FOR YEARS.

As they told us running into loaded boxes repeatedly was required for Wilson to be effective. Punting in enemy territory was smart football, and throwing on early downs was bad.

No matter how much evidence we presented to the contrary. Clowns decided to die on that hill.

Where is the conviction!? The "Let Russ Cook" proponents never wavered, the "Pete Ball" crowd seemed to have rolled over without a fight… Pathetic. LOL



Pete was wrong the whole time. Only when Wilson pretty much said it without saying it, that he was going to leave if things didn't change. THEN Pete folded like a lawn chair. LOL.

"Pete Ball" is garbo. I am glad to see it is dead. It cost the team many wins over the years, higher playoff seedings, and what could have been deep playoff runs.

The Seahawks may very well win the Superbowl this year if they keep up this aggressive, varied attack they displayed on Sunday. But more importantly it is about throwing your best punch and letting the chips fall where they may. Instead of holding back and wondering if they could've won the game had Wilson been more featured.

I think your missing it totally... It's not about just one thing...It's about matchups and having the tools to attack a team in multiple different ways according to what matchups the Hawks favor... This is a multi talented diverse offense that can beat you at running and passing... no this is about matching up period...

LTH