The key to this seasons is the O line. Period!!!!!

[pehawk]

Wilson's go-ahead TD had nothing to do with pass protection. It was designed that way. Three-step drop out of shotgun...snap, plant, throw. O-line involvement is minimal on such quick-timing plays, by design, because pass rush barely has time to arrive before the throw. But of course announcers constantly miss such nuances and perpetuate the overimportance of the offensive line.

And again, for the millionth time, I suggest you go through the games with Game Rewind and note how often Wilson runs WITHOUT any pressure whatsoever. It happens a lot more than you think, and most people don't notice because they're conditioned to equate scrambling QBs with bad pass protection. It's a simplistic connection and it's faulty.

+1

But then they'd be forced to criticize Wilson. Not okay.

The fault is all over the place. Sometimes Wilson takes off too soon or throws poorly. Sometimes nobody's open downfield. And when those two conditions aren't present, the pass protection really does break down. And no fan or announcer would ever know when Wilson merely failed to shift protection properly pre-snap, or when a TE/RB missed an assignment.

Basically, the entire offense is just out of sync. And that's not something anyone wants to hear, because you can't fix it with two O-linemen from the draft.

The offense took itself out of sync with a staff bound and determined to legitimize the addition of Harvin. Doing so stunted the growth of an improved talent pool for the OL, Wilson's maturation, and two rookie WR's. It will sync up, and most likely peak at the right time, I just hope it's in time.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

.........And again, for the millionth time, I challenge you guys to go through the games with Game Rewind and note how often Wilson runs WITHOUT any pressure whatsoever. It happens a lot more than you think, and most people don't notice because they're conditioned to equate scrambling QBs with bad pass protection. It's a simplistic connection and it ignores so much.

And conversely you could be asked how many times does he do this because his protection has not been good over the last 2 seasons and he's expecting it to break down even when it doesn't? Can you admit that's at least a possibility part of the time as well?

Look, I'm not arguing RW is without blame. Most importantly I agree that it's a combination of factors as you already described.....o-line pass pro breakdowns, WRs not getting open and RW bailing too soon as well perhaps even Bevell not going deep often enough and not running enough early in games. You said the offense is out of sync and on that I think we can all pretty much agree.

 

[Chawks1]

We won a Super Bowl last year with Paul McQuistan and Michael Bowie playing at tackle for several weeks.

I wish we'd move on from this OL obsession (est2006).

Yeah this is getting tiring. Our OL wasn't an better last year....move on.

 

[seabowl]

We won a Super Bowl last year with Paul McQuistan and Michael Bowie playing at tackle for several weeks.

I wish we'd move on from this OL obsession (est2006).

Yeah this is getting tiring. Our OL wasn't an better last year....move on.

Whatever the case, this is the reason why we will win or lose by how our OLine plays. Last year we could rely on the D to control the game. This year with the D not nearly as good the OLine needs to control the flow of the game and give the D the rest that it needs. In addition by wearing out the opposing D it helps especially late in the game as we saw today.

 

[hawk45]

Pass pro was more awful last year, it's pretty awful this year. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of the fact that it has been worse in the past. Other than it being possible to win with even crappier protection. Uh okay well this year's team isn't going to be able to do that, mainly because of the defensive dropoff.

Both the Rams and the Panthers have been noted this season for how god-awful their D lines have been, yet against us they look like monsters. Most disturbingly our run blocking has been ineffective as well. I turn on the TV and see Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Arizona all seem to get better push. I can't tell with Indy because they hardly run it.

The OP is at least somewhat right, this line will be a big part of our making or unmaking. They've been injured (which I almost discount because when have they not been) and that's the biggest reason, but they need to get better, whether that's health or the healthy guys playing better.

And Russ looked pretty bad today, and has looked terrible a few times this season, and he does run too quickly at times but frankly we're lucky he's just being a little ruined out there as opposed to being injured. The day Russell stops running too quickly he'll get carried out on a stretcher.

He had decent protection in the second half, and he still misfired, but that's connected with the beating he's taken the last couple of years.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

He had decent protection in the second half, and he still misfired, but that's connected with the beating he's taken the last couple of years.

You don't know that and you have no way to prove it. You're reaching really hard to justify a connection you believe in.

Aaron Rodgers, FWIW, has had two 50-sack seasons and still gotten his team to 11-5 both years. He's on track for 40 this year. Still healthy as a horse.

 

[brimsalabim]

Didn't Carp have a FS today?

 

[olyfan63]

The key to this season is the DL and getting pressure on the QB. Today we did = win.

The offense and OL can help massively in masking our defensive issues by sustaining drives, and keeping our speedy-but-somewhat undersized defense fresh. Today, they did.

We are extremely lucky that Russell can compensate a lot for a poor pass-blocking line, and make amazing plays with his legs.

I still say defense is significantly more key, and in particular the DL position group and ability of the D to pressure the passer, and thus create turnovers.

Certainly take any OL improvement we can get during the season... A better O and OL performance would have resulted in wins vs both San Diego and Dallas. Better DL play and pressure on passer would have resulted in all 3 L's being W's. So I'm giving " Key factor" status to DL 3-2 over OL at this point.

 

[hawk45]

He had decent protection in the second half, and he still misfired, but that's connected with the beating he's taken the last couple of years.

You don't know that and you have no way to prove it. You're reaching really hard to justify a connection you believe in.

Aaron Rodgers, FWIW, has had two 50-sack seasons and still gotten his team to 11-5 both years. He's on track for 40 this year. Still healthy as a horse.

I see your Aaron Rodgers and raise you a David Carr.

Wilson deserves blame for poor performance, and I am sure his running quickly has to do with vision problems, but I am equally sure it has to do with being conditioned that if he trusts his protection he'll get killed. I'm not assigning a percentage here, but to rule it out entirely doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I see your Aaron Rodgers and raise you a David Carr.

David Carr is the most commonly cited example of the "QB ruined by an offensive line". Yet logic suggests that if one QB can survive a pounding to win a Super Bowl (as the last six have, including Rodgers and Wilson) while another cannot, then there is no correlation to the offensive line. The more falsifiable difference is the QB. You can't just act as if Carr is the defining example and ignore the last six Super Bowl winners.

Also, it's not commonly known what happened once David Carr left Houston. Short version: they got better immediately, without improving the offensive line. Matt Schaub stepped in and provided immediate improvement at the position's fundamentals, handling pressure better (because even Tom Brady gets pressured), making better reads, taking fewer sacks. Carr's sack-per-play rate, on the other hand, followed him his entire career. No connection to the offensive line there.