The Hawks Would Win A Lot More Games IF . . . (you finish)

thegameq

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chris98251":1kn46eim said:
thegameq":1kn46eim said:
Spin Doctor":1kn46eim said:
Better situational football. Carroll calls some WTF worthy plays in certain situations. I count time management under this. Timeouts burned that need not be, weird challenges and overall decision making in situations. We've lost a few games this season due to this.

Procedural football changes. The Seahawks are very sloppy when it comes to small things. We make routine situations in football, painful. Situations like we had with Lynch last Sunday are common place in Seattle. Our coaching staff routinely leaves only a few seconds on the clock for the team to line-up. Many times they look unready. On defense it is more of the same. Our defense flat out doesn't seem to know where to line-up on certain plays, especially if the opposing offense gets creative with the tempo. The Seahawks are very bad at the mundane, yet important things in football.

On offense we need to vary our tempo. Waiting until the clock hits zero is bad, it makes it easier for the defense to time jumps. We've taken most of the guesswork of timing the snap from the defense. Defenders such as Michael Bennett thrived on this. Taking such a long time for plays to come out also hinders our ability to make adjustments.

We need to stop trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole. We're trying to force offensive game plans to work when they clearly aren't. Carroll as well as our staff seem to fixate on one type of play be it running or passing and keep on hammering it even when it doesn't work. We are relentless in his aspect, and not in a good way.

More short passes need to be integrated into the playbook. When Russ was in the MVP running we using the short passes quite effectively. Where did this go? It isn't sexy, it isn't highlight reel worthy, but they are important staples, especially with an injured offensive line. We keep trying to skip the foreplay so we can go for the climax, the knockout punch, the haymaker. Long developing have their uses, but like everything it has a time and a place.

Defensive scheming or lack thereof. Lots of three linebackers, not many blitzes or stunts. Very vanilla defense. I'd take a

I think above all else though time management and procedural football are the biggest things we can do right away to win.

Basically, this.

I get wanting to keep things simple for the players so they can think less and play faster, but come on.......

The NFL is all about coaching, schemes and match-ups. I swear our offense and defense looks so generic and confounded at times. Just once i'd like us to have a smooth operating, well oiled machine for an offense--instead of the stop and start, stumbling, bumbling, three and out, penalty laden, poorly organized offense we get each year.

That 9ers and Saints game was a master class in offensive schemes and designs. Yet the things they do I would think is a no-brainer. Same personnel, same formation, different play. Defense can't figure out what's coming and is on their heels for most of the drive. No need to constantly keep switching out personnel--eating up the play clock and causing confusion in some cases. It also allows you to catch the other team in the process of subbing defensive players.

Maybe someone with more Xs and Os knowledge can explain the drawbacks of what the Saints, 9ers and Rams do and how to beat it. Every system has flaws but those systems look like they force defenses to fall back on their heels and react rather than play agresively. It would be an interesting read on .NET or at least a change of pace.

Its really simple, flood the layers of zone pass protection a guy on each layer coming across from the same side, there is a hand off point to the next defender, they hit that guy right before the hand off point. When Kendricks is covering he doesn't have the quickness to keep up with a WR that is good at routes and accelerates, also once you clear that you can leak a TE or a RB that has stayed back to chip block in the vacated flat in front of the CB that is taking a deeper guy and have a wide open field in front of him.

How do you off set this, Nickel in the under route with the quick guy and pressure so the leaked guys can't release and force earlier throws to the deeper routes that take longer to clear.

:2thumbs:

With your explanation in mind I can understand why Garapopolis had a hard time against us the first game. Clowney wasn't giving him time to wait for routes to develop. It also explains his interception problems at the start of the year. The quarterback must be precise with his throws and it seems to leave little room for error. Trying to hit receivers at the precise moment when they are in between a zone isn't easy. I think the fact that they make it look easy speaks to the lack of speed and recognition on the part of the DBs. As others have said, they do more chasing from behind and tackling way after the fact. It would be interesting to see the amount of RAC given up by the DBs and where they stand league wide.

It also brings to mind whether or not Russell could flourish in such a system where he would need to be able to see downfield clearly and immediately. I believe it's been said that Russ tends to struggle somewhat with zone coverage. I believe the current system plays to Russ's strenghts but it would be interesting to see him play in a more creative offense......but just how much more creative?.......would Russ really work well in the Saint's timing based offense? Would he work well in the Rams/9ers style offense? I think these are better questions to ask instead of just wanting a more creative offense.

This is not intended as a put down of Russell Wilson. Just converssation/discussion starters. The coaches know Russ better than we do. They know his game better than we do. Maybe they see his weaknesses more often than we get to see his strengths.

:hmmmm:
 

SoulfishHawk

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Couldn't disagree more. It feels like Russ has had to outplay bad offensive play calling for years. Just an opinion.
 

Largent80

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chris98251":1o4twqcj said:
Largent80":1o4twqcj said:
Delano Hill isn't the starting safety. Also add Thompson in here. I was relieved when he went on IR. They missed on those guys and I think Blair has that star quality and thump we're looking for. But the experience of Diggs is so valuable but heck, he had a hamstring when we traded for him now a H.A.S. These are easy fixes but hopefully not a trend with him.

Problem with Blair is he has the want but not the body to back it up day in and day out I am thinking, maybe a off season he will be able to transform his body to be more stout.

He's not going to get much bigger than he is, but he's a missle that needs to be fired. Let him hit these jackasses that think the middle is wide open in this defense because IT IS.
 

Seymour

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If they had 2 reliable pass rushers and an oline that could pass protect anywhere near or better than an average level (we average 26th in pass protection over Wilson careeer :pukeface: )
 

John63

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thegameq":9cw3xqp7 said:
chris98251":9cw3xqp7 said:
thegameq":9cw3xqp7 said:
Spin Doctor":9cw3xqp7 said:
Better situational football. Carroll calls some WTF worthy plays in certain situations. I count time management under this. Timeouts burned that need not be, weird challenges and overall decision making in situations. We've lost a few games this season due to this.

Procedural football changes. The Seahawks are very sloppy when it comes to small things. We make routine situations in football, painful. Situations like we had with Lynch last Sunday are common place in Seattle. Our coaching staff routinely leaves only a few seconds on the clock for the team to line-up. Many times they look unready. On defense it is more of the same. Our defense flat out doesn't seem to know where to line-up on certain plays, especially if the opposing offense gets creative with the tempo. The Seahawks are very bad at the mundane, yet important things in football.

On offense we need to vary our tempo. Waiting until the clock hits zero is bad, it makes it easier for the defense to time jumps. We've taken most of the guesswork of timing the snap from the defense. Defenders such as Michael Bennett thrived on this. Taking such a long time for plays to come out also hinders our ability to make adjustments.

We need to stop trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole. We're trying to force offensive game plans to work when they clearly aren't. Carroll as well as our staff seem to fixate on one type of play be it running or passing and keep on hammering it even when it doesn't work. We are relentless in his aspect, and not in a good way.

More short passes need to be integrated into the playbook. When Russ was in the MVP running we using the short passes quite effectively. Where did this go? It isn't sexy, it isn't highlight reel worthy, but they are important staples, especially with an injured offensive line. We keep trying to skip the foreplay so we can go for the climax, the knockout punch, the haymaker. Long developing have their uses, but like everything it has a time and a place.

Defensive scheming or lack thereof. Lots of three linebackers, not many blitzes or stunts. Very vanilla defense. I'd take a

I think above all else though time management and procedural football are the biggest things we can do right away to win.

Basically, this.

I get wanting to keep things simple for the players so they can think less and play faster, but come on.......

The NFL is all about coaching, schemes and match-ups. I swear our offense and defense looks so generic and confounded at times. Just once i'd like us to have a smooth operating, well oiled machine for an offense--instead of the stop and start, stumbling, bumbling, three and out, penalty laden, poorly organized offense we get each year.

That 9ers and Saints game was a master class in offensive schemes and designs. Yet the things they do I would think is a no-brainer. Same personnel, same formation, different play. Defense can't figure out what's coming and is on their heels for most of the drive. No need to constantly keep switching out personnel--eating up the play clock and causing confusion in some cases. It also allows you to catch the other team in the process of subbing defensive players.

Maybe someone with more Xs and Os knowledge can explain the drawbacks of what the Saints, 9ers and Rams do and how to beat it. Every system has flaws but those systems look like they force defenses to fall back on their heels and react rather than play agresively. It would be an interesting read on .NET or at least a change of pace.

Its really simple, flood the layers of zone pass protection a guy on each layer coming across from the same side, there is a hand off point to the next defender, they hit that guy right before the hand off point. When Kendricks is covering he doesn't have the quickness to keep up with a WR that is good at routes and accelerates, also once you clear that you can leak a TE or a RB that has stayed back to chip block in the vacated flat in front of the CB that is taking a deeper guy and have a wide open field in front of him.

How do you off set this, Nickel in the under route with the quick guy and pressure so the leaked guys can't release and force earlier throws to the deeper routes that take longer to clear.

:2thumbs:

With your explanation in mind I can understand why Garapopolis had a hard time against us the first game. Clowney wasn't giving him time to wait for routes to develop. It also explains his interception problems at the start of the year. The quarterback must be precise with his throws and it seems to leave little room for error. Trying to hit receivers at the precise moment when they are in between a zone isn't easy. I think the fact that they make it look easy speaks to the lack of speed and recognition on the part of the DBs. As others have said, they do more chasing from behind and tackling way after the fact. It would be interesting to see the amount of RAC given up by the DBs and where they stand league wide.

It also brings to mind whether or not Russell could flourish in such a system where he would need to be able to see downfield clearly and immediately. I believe it's been said that Russ tends to struggle somewhat with zone coverage. I believe the current system plays to Russ's strenghts but it would be interesting to see him play in a more creative offense......but just how much more creative?.......would Russ really work well in the Saint's timing based offense? Would he work well in the Rams/9ers style offense? I think these are better questions to ask instead of just wanting a more creative offense.

This is not intended as a put down of Russell Wilson. Just converssation/discussion starters. The coaches know Russ better than we do. They know his game better than we do. Maybe they see his weaknesses more often than we get to see his strengths.

:hmmmm:

ahh again with this fake zone coverage crap, Wilson has routinely been amongst the best against the zone. If you watch the game you would fine what we run for most of a game is not the system he functions best in. Instead, it is what we run usually in the 4th, an uptempo/change tempo, motion, layered quick passing attack. Why does it work so well, for one Wilson is calling the plays, so he has time to see everything, 2 because he is he can set the Wr up to get open, and also since it is quick the o lineman don't have to block as long. What I find even funniest is some on this board has said Wilson is great in zone but struggles against Man another thing which is not true. While from last year here is an example, and he was better this year

https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/08/russell-wilson-picked-apart-zone-defenses-in-2018/
 

SoulfishHawk

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The late Ron Fairly had the most obvious answer.
If you score more than the other team...…...you're gonna' win the game.
 

Jazzhawk

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the other teams would stop trying to win too.
 

SanDiego49er

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Get more healthy. But the same could be said for any team with injuries. Which most have by the end of the year. All that said is it really that bad? 11 - 5 and playoffs is pretty good. That's better than a lot of teams and better than some of your own years in the past. It's not that terrible. Most teams, most years would be happy to be 11 - 5 and in the playoffs. I don't think it is bad by any means. You also have a real strong chance to win game 1 in the playoffs IMO vs. the Eagles. So I think your season is pretty good overall.
 

Russ Willstrong

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We Run, Run, Pass.

Even more crucial against a tough run D in Philly.
There is a reason for RW being winningest qb in his first 8 years. :sarcasm_off:
 

scutterhawk

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hawkfan68":i0oyax71 said:
They had "killer" instinct. They had it during 2012-2015 run but somehow lost it since. They were stomping on teams they should and putting 40-50 burgers on teams that deserved them....Bills, Cards, etc. Stepping on a wounded opponent's throat and finishing them. Now they don't do that. Yes, injuries and personnel changes have impacted them but even when healthy they weren't showing any "killer" instinct the past few seasons.
You mean LOB type "Killer Instinct"....Think about this for a couple minutes, no KAM CHANCELLOR to PUNISH players who dared to try and make plays in his area of coverage....No Richard Sherman.... No ET.
Most everyone wondering why KJ & Wagner were having problems?, because they were being tasked to make up the difference of NOT having a Secondary to secure their back side...They are 'Defensive Line Backers', that had too much field to cover, & being spread so thin, it's damned small wonder they were getting gashed so often.
Just having Diggs back there, shined a light on THE REAL reasons why the Linebackers were having a tough go of it this season.
Injuries to our TE's and STAR RB's, who happen to be the O-LINE & everything dumps right into Russell Wilson's lap.
With all the aforementioned deficits, an 11 & 5 shows some damn good on the fly Coaching...But that's just me.

OH, and we got 11 & 5 on a Rebuild season
 

justafan

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Its not the offenses fault.

D has been a weak link all year. I think we need more speed in the backend. In our division we need to be stouter against the run and better coverage against the TE against the Niners. Against the Rams we need more team speed in the D backfield and better coverage against the TE. Short passes make the pass rush almost irrelevant. Against the Cards tackling,take care of your gap and contain the QB.
 

Mad Dog

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justafan":21atztd3 said:
Its not the offenses fault.

D has been a weak link all year. I think we need more speed in the backend. In our division we need to be stouter against the run and better coverage against the TE against the Niners. Against the Rams we need more team speed in the D backfield and better coverage against the TE. Short passes make the pass rush almost irrelevant. Against the Cards tackling,take care of your gap and contain the QB.

Just need a disruptive pass rush. if you can make Goff and Jimmy G skittish, they will throw the ball your way. Problem is we can't routinely do that.
But I agree a bit more speed at LB would be helpful to shore up the run defense. Too often KJ and Bobby are a step late and are dragging guys down rather than being the hammer knocking them back. That turns a lot of 2 yard gains into 5 yard gains.
 

HawkerD

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Better Oline play. Wilson is a generational talent. look what he is able to do with a shit oline and average receivers. If he had a clean pocket on a few more dropbacks and wasn't always worried about the pressure coming from everywhere, he would destroy defenses. And the run game would be more effective. Our backs have more yards after contact because they are getting hit at the LOS if not before.
 
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