The Birth Of A QB Destroyer

[ImTheScientist]

I was maybe Irvin's biggest fan here before that draft. When a topic was brought up many months before that draft (over at the draft forum) asking who everyone thought the #1 pass rusher was, I'm pretty sure I was the only one who named Irvin, and even back then, I felt that it wasn't even a close call.

:roll:

 

[Throwdown]

After reading about the kids history I have to ask, What are players who actually NEED drugs like Aderall supposed to do in this league?

There's a process you can go through for a player who feels they need adderall.

 

[BlueTalon]

I was maybe Irvin's biggest fan here before that draft. When a topic was brought up many months before that draft (over at the draft forum) asking who everyone thought the #1 pass rusher was, I'm pretty sure I was the only one who named Irvin, and even back then, I felt that it wasn't even a close call.

:roll:

What are the roll-eyes for? If you're skeptical, go back and read some of his pre-draft stuff from last year.

 

[FlyingGreg]

What I measure for the truly great players if they have enough talent, is the heart, desire, and dedication to become something great. Irvin has a lot of doubters, he knows this, he's probably has the biggest chip on his shoulder than any other player on this team possibly in this league especially when he was drafted and the media response was basically to laugh in his face and doubt his abilities and prospects worthy of a first round grade.

So while we can just compare him to a guy like Aaron Curry who in recent interviews with the New York media said he basically cashed out, was selfish, and didn't care.

Irvin, imo, is the anti- Curry...Irvin doesn't care about the money in the long run.... he's a person who has been doubted his whole life... he's the person searching for the glory of self-accomplishment and to be revered and that is what truly drives and motivates him.... I could be wrong about that assessment but that is what I truly take from his interviews and when he was suspended he didn’t give some half ass statement that sounded like a PR move, it was genuine and seemed to come from the heart.

The guy seems truly dedicated to become something great, whether or not is up to him and him only, and not our assessment of the weaknesses that we think will hinder him as a player especially downplaying his intelligence. That’s BS. Football isn’t rocket science, instincts can be taught. Higher IQs don’t equal Hall of Fame careers or even Pro Bowl players.

There's a lot of assumption in these statements. How do you know any of this? Sorry, but a lot of that reads like wishful thinking. It may be true, sure. But it's not real scientific.

I think Irvin will improve, but the proof will be in the pudding. He "looks bigger" isn't enough for me to get excited about. He got pushed aside way too easily last season, mostly because teams figured out he was a one trick pony. I'm hoping he has developed something other than just trying to speed rush.

Yes, he had 8 sacks...but they were sporadic and many were not clutch. I'm not knocking him, I thought it was impressive he got 8 not playing full time. But sometimes stats lead you down a dangerous road.

I'm skeptical of the SAM experiment also. I can't shake this nagging thought that they realized last season he won't be able to be a dominating DE (which is what you want drafting him in the first round) and are now trying to salvage something.

 

[themunn]

Yes, he had 8 sacks...but they were sporadic and many were not clutch. I'm not knocking him, I thought it was impressive he got 8 not playing full time. But sometimes stats lead you down a dangerous road.

i mean that's part true, but when 5.5 of the 8 come on third down, 1 of the remaining 3 is a strip sack which we recovered (and one of the most clutch plays of the season), 1 was on 2nd and 20 forcing 3rd and 26 or something and the other 0.5 is on Tony Romo (which is always appreciated), you can't really say they weren't clutch.

 

[FlyingGreg]

Yes, he had 8 sacks...but they were sporadic and many were not clutch. I'm not knocking him, I thought it was impressive he got 8 not playing full time. But sometimes stats lead you down a dangerous road.

i mean that's part true, but when 5.5 of the 8 come on third down, 1 of the remaining 3 is a strip sack which we recovered (and one of the most clutch plays of the season), 1 was on 2nd and 20 forcing 3rd and 26 or something and the other 0.5 is on Tony Romo (which is always appreciated), you can't really say they weren't clutch.

Sure I can, it's just my opinion.

Let me put it this way: I'd like to see more consistency. All of his sacks came in 8 games last season. Which means in the other 8, nada. He only had 1 sack in the last 6 games of the regular season and the sack he got against the Skins in the playoff game...well, we all know that was because RGIII couldn't even move.

I won't even go into the Falcons game, that's been hashed to death. Not all his fault - we were desperate.

The strip sack was awesome...but that was his ONLY forced fumble of the season. I'd like to see much more disruption.

I think he is very talented, I am just worried he is not strong enough to fight through the big dudes.

 

[Heyseed]

Just "One" sack in the last 30 seconds of the Atlanta playoff game would have been nice. 28 30
I'm rooting for Bruce

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201301130 ... &tab=recap

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

So, lets say Bruce Irvin happens to prove you guys wrong... does that mean he was only successful because of his supporting cast.

I'm not going to say anything else, I can say this, and "you" can say that but in the end its all up to Bruce Irvin. I can't prove that he will prove some of your guy's opinion wrong but he can and I can believe in him.

 

[bestfightstory]

So, lets say Bruce Irvin happens to prove you guys wrong... does that mean he was only successful because of his supporting cast.

I'm not going to say anything else, I can say this, and "you" can say that but in the end its all up to Bruce Irvin. I can't prove that he will prove some of your guy's opinion wrong but he can and I can believe in him.

Don't know who you are talking to bit I don't give three shits if I'm proved wrong!

Do you understand?

This board gets way too caught up in beating its chest about predictions and analyses of players and coaches and game plans.

I want the Seahawks to win.

That is what matters to me.

That means I want the players on the Seahawks roster to EXCEL and DOMINATE.

That includes Irvin.

That includes Moffitt.

All of them.

I say what I see-when I am INCORRECT and it is to the Seahawks' benefit I CELEBRATE being wrong!

Jesus Christ

 

[sc85sis]

Jesus Christ

I don't think Pete and John have signed him yet.

 

[Happypuppy]

One of the things you have to take into account is the Seahawks line is getting better over all. If they get a better push up the middle it will open it for Irvin. I think the plan is for him to play a fair amount of plays from SAM. The idea being to overload the defense. I suspect that the one of the best ways to defend against the Pistol is with good edge pressure and collapse the lanes towards the center of the field. Irvin with his speed should be an asset.

Irvin has flaws , he lends to rush too high and as a result he has little leverage. However he has the one thing it is next to impossible to train up...speed. As his confidence grows and he is comfortable I think we will see him play faster. I see him as a 10 sack player into the future

 

[TJH]

After reading about the kids history I have to ask, What are players who actually NEED drugs like Aderall supposed to do in this league?

Thinking he actually took adderall and not roids is incredibly foolish.

 

[brettb3]

After reading about the kids history I have to ask, What are players who actually NEED drugs like Aderall supposed to do in this league?

Thinking he actually took adderall and not roids is incredibly foolish.

Hmm, that's interesting, considering you have absolutely zero proof of your contention.

 

[TJH]

After reading about the kids history I have to ask, What are players who actually NEED drugs like Aderall supposed to do in this league?

Thinking he actually took adderall and not roids is incredibly foolish.

Hmm, that's interesting, considering you have absolutely zero proof of your contention.

And zero proof that it was adderall other than being likely as a coverup. It's pretty obvious if you're not a massive homer.

 

[brettb3]

And zero proof that it was adderall other than being likely as a coverup. It's pretty obvious if you're not a massive homer.[/quote]
What is incredibly foolish is making assumptions about a situation you have no knowledge of. He could have taken steroids. He could have taken adderall. He could have taken something else. We just don't know. Also can't help but notice the irony of using "zero proof" and "likely" in the same sentence.

 

[TJH]

Likely as in it's now the go to for any PED suspension all over the league to save face. All I know is whoever is managing our player's cycles needs to be fired.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I am a bit confused, what's the difference between the "joker" and "spinner" ?

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

So, lets say Bruce Irvin happens to prove you guys wrong... does that mean he was only successful because of his supporting cast.

I'm not going to say anything else, I can say this, and "you" can say that but in the end its all up to Bruce Irvin. I can't prove that he will prove some of your guy's opinion wrong but he can and I can believe in him.

Don't know who you are talking to bit I don't give three shits if I'm proved wrong!

Do you understand?

This board gets way too caught up in beating its chest about predictions and analyses of players and coaches and game plans.

I want the Seahawks to win.

That is what matters to me.

That means I want the players on the Seahawks roster to EXCEL and DOMINATE.

That includes Irvin.

That includes Moffitt.

All of them.

I say what I see-when I am INCORRECT and it is to the Seahawks' benefit I CELEBRATE being wrong!

Jesus Christ

Whoa, buddy… I did not mean to ruffle your feathers. I kind of aimed that at you a little bit but what I say next is to everyone.

I just feel that Irvin out of all people has just got a bunch of sh!t constantly handed to him about who he is as a person and who he will be as a player.

Irvin has come a long way to get to where he is now in the NFL, from streets being a petty drug dealer and criminal, to playing football in JuCo for two years before transferring to West Virginia. At every stop he’s been at he’s worked hard and has been successful. For the most part relying on his athletic talent more than he was coached up. Irvin he admitted that he wasn’t coached up that much, they just put him out there and let him do what he does best… eat quarterbacks.

And the two things I hated seeing in this thread was one:

1) Knocking Irvin down because of his intelligence. The thing is most football players aren’t that smart. But if a players has top notch athletic talent and the desire plus dedication to work hard to improve every day and understand what the job is. Just enough intelligence can make you into a great player.

And there are plenty of players in the league and college who aren’t very athletic or strong but get by on intelligence, I’m not going to discount that… it’s a very real thing. At times if you have enough athletic talent, intelligence can make you into a great player i.e. Lofa Tatupu.

And there are players definitely with both but it doesn’t mean that player is on track to become a hall of fame type of player. No, again, in order to be great, in order to be the best you have to be competitive in every way, you have to work your ass off, you have to dedicate pretty much your life to football and as Wilson always says “preparation is in the separation”.

And if I have to guess where Irvin’s allegiance lies towards dedication and hard-work, even though its my own opinion, I’ll admit that, but from what I gather from his interviews, from his write-ups, and from what the coaches have said about him… is that his heart is in this game, that he’ll put in the hard work, the overtime work to improve, and the dedication to become the best of which he can be.

And one of the best things about our team Irvin is not alone in this, he has one of the best offenses in the NFL to practice against to get better, with one of the best defenses watching his back, and more than enough solid coaching to go around. The weight of expectation is not thrust upon Irvin’s shoulders as some players are. The Seahawks aren’t forcing him to be a great player, right away, because they’ll win or die with his ability. No, I think it’s in Irvin's own personal agenda, his own expectations to become great, to prove his importance in a world that has constantly laughed in his face or told him he’s not good enough and to disprove all the haters, even the ones that are fans of his own team.

2) When is not leading you’re rookie class in sacks not good enough.

Irvin had 8 sacks in 16 games, no starts, fact, it doesn’t matter how he got them.

Lets compare to other NFL 1st round DE’s from 2012:

The next closest rookie to Irvin was Chandler Jones with 6 sacks in 14 games, 13 starts.

Jones was a full-time starter for the Patriots, despite missing 2 games, he had the 7th most snap counts on the Patriots defense with 729 plays. If he played a full 16 clip, he easily would have surpassed the 6th guy at 733 snaps, and pushed for 5th behind CB Kyle Arrington’s 824. The other players ahead of Jones, respectively, were stars and key starters: Wilfork, Ninkovich, Mayo, and McCourty.

Bruce Irvin had 415 snaps according to Sando, (434- FO) and from what I could find that ranked 11th among the rest of Seahawks defense.

So theoretically let’s say Jones played a full 16 games and tied Irvin with 8 sacks but also had 830 snaps ( About 50 snaps per game seems reasonable enough for a starter, Jones had 41 snaps in his first game back from his ankle injury).

You guys do see the picture I’m painting, Irvin had 8 sacks on more or less than half the snaps (of a normal defensive starter). Again, Irvin led all rookies, it doesn’t matter how he got them.

Whitney Mercelius tied Jones with 6 sacks on 500 defensive snaps (FO) in 16 games, 4 starts.

Next closest guy was Quinton Coples with 5.5 sacks with 516 snaps (FO) in 16 games, 2 starts. Coples also had 40 pounds on Irvin. Chandler had 15 pounds. Mercelius had 12.

The other rookies, Melvin Ingram and Shea McClellin were nothing talking about pass-rush wise in 2012.

So who really cares how Irvin got his sacks, he still was more productive in the sense, in less playing time than any of the other first round pass-rushers.

Even Clemons, a 9 year vet, who played twice the snaps more than Irvin with 840 snaps, managed only 3.5 more sacks than Irvin in 16 starts.

 

[General Manager]

Missing the first 4 games this year really hurts his development making that big jump going into year two. Now i'm not saying he can't come in after his suspension and be very good . We'll see how he looks in preseason not that that means alot but it does give us some idea . The bottom line is he stlll has a lot to prove.

 

[Chukarhawk]

I have wanted to like this guy but I have been very unimpressed so far. now he's starting the season off being suspended for 4 games. I see 5-6 sacks this season ,fighing for a roster spot next year and not being on the team the following year.