Sweezy's decline

[Vesuve]

OK so.....

No ones has thoughts on Alvin Bailey being just plain bad?

 

[hawknation2015]

Other than Britt and 6th Rounder Garrett Scott, who never suited up due to a heart condition, the Seahawks did NOT draft a single offensive lineman above the 7th Round from 2012-2014, including zero in the 2012 and 2013 draft classes. Britt remains the only lineman we have drafted above the 4th Round in the last four years (2012-2015).

If we had devoted any real draft capital to the position group in 2012 or 2013, then we would be working with more third and fourth year linemen. But instead of working with experienced draftees, we are now forced to develop undrafted free agents into major contributors: Garry Gilliam, Drew Nowak, and Alvin Bailey. That is an extremely difficult thing to do.

The benefits I have already discussed, because it meant using that draft capital on other position groups and using those cap savings on re-signing our most elite players, instead of chasing free agent linemen.

That said, I do wish we had drafted a couple more linemen in the first three rounds since 2012. The 2013 and 2014 draft classes did not turn out that great anyway, and elite linemen prospects like Joel Bitonio were available. They could have taken Bitionio instead of Paul Richardson or Larry Warford instead of Christine Michael.

 

[justafan]

Other than Britt and 6th Rounder Garrett Scott, who never suited up due to a heart condition, the Seahawks did NOT draft a single offensive lineman above the 7th Round from 2012-2014, including zero in the 2012 and 2013 draft classes. Britt remains the only lineman we have drafted above the 4th Round in the last four years (2012-2015).

If we had devoted any real draft capital to the position group in 2012 or 2013, then we would be working with more third and fourth year linemen. But instead of working with experienced draftees, we are now forced to develop undrafted free agents into major contributors: Garry Gilliam, Drew Nowak, and Alvin Bailey. That is an extremely difficult thing to do.

The benefits I have already discussed, because it meant using that draft capital on other position groups and using those cap savings on re-signing our most elite players, instead of chasing free agent linemen.

That said, I do wish we had drafted a couple more linemen in the first three rounds since 2012. The 2013 and 2014 draft classes did not turn out that great anyway, and elite linemen prospects like Joel Bitonio were available. They could have taken Bitionio instead of Paul Richardson or Larry Warford instead of Christine Michael.

What I said is our Olines prior to this year was built with high draft picks and decent FAs.It was a priority with the FO.I agree with everyone that the reason this line is so bad is because its built with poor players with little or no experience.
They chased glamour players like Harvin and Graham at the expense of the Oline.Probably two of the most overated positions in football IMO are high priced WRs and finesse TEs.

But it sounds like people accept it or use it as an excuse for building a poor line.Building the Oline this way was the mistake.That's my point.I'm not sure how anyone can argue its the smart way to go about it.I think its part of Cables ego.

Every year we should be drafting Olineman.You replace part of the line every year.Its something every team does at some point.
There were very few people here who wanted Bitonio in the 1st that year.

 

[hawknation2015]

Other than Britt and 6th Rounder Garrett Scott, who never suited up due to a heart condition, the Seahawks did NOT draft a single offensive lineman above the 7th Round from 2012-2014, including zero in the 2012 and 2013 draft classes. Britt remains the only lineman we have drafted above the 4th Round in the last four years (2012-2015).

If we had devoted any real draft capital to the position group in 2012 or 2013, then we would be working with more third and fourth year linemen. But instead of working with experienced draftees, we are now forced to develop undrafted free agents into major contributors: Garry Gilliam, Drew Nowak, and Alvin Bailey. That is an extremely difficult thing to do.

The benefits I have already discussed, because it meant using that draft capital on other position groups and using those cap savings on re-signing our most elite players, instead of chasing free agent linemen.

That said, I do wish we had drafted a couple more linemen in the first three rounds since 2012. The 2013 and 2014 draft classes did not turn out that great anyway, and elite linemen prospects like Joel Bitonio were available. They could have taken Bitionio instead of Paul Richardson or Larry Warford instead of Christine Michael.

What I said is our Olines prior to this year was built with high draft picks and decent FAs.It was a priority with the FO.I agree with everyone that the reason this line is so bad is because its built with poor players with little or no experience.
They chased glamour players like Harvin and Graham at the expense of the Oline.Probably two of the most overated positions in football IMO are high priced WRs and finesse TEs.

But it sounds like people accept it or use it as an excuse for building a poor line.Building the Oline this way was the mistake.That's my point.I'm not sure how anyone can argue its the smart way to go about it.I think its part of Cables ego.

Every year we should be drafting Olineman.You replace part of the line every year.Its something every team does at some point.
There were very few people here who wanted Bitonio in the 1st that year.

Schneider/Carroll pick the draft picks . . . not Cable.

Like I said, if he could have three First Rounders on his line, instead of three undrafted free agents or 7th Rounders, I'm sure he would take them.

 

[joeseahawks]

These guys would all look great, if they were playing behind Tom Brady. Every time I watch Brady play, he seems to have 5 minutes behind his line.

 

[The Dirty Truth]

Is Sweezy regressing? That answer is no. Like someone said earlier you have to look at what they have surrounded him and Okung with. Sweezy has a pretty bad RT and a still very green C on either side of him. I guarantee you that going from playing beside Unger to playing beside Nowak would hurt anyone, just by the communication issues alone. Sweezy has been our most consistent OL this year. He has only been an OL for 4 years and still has things to learn and will continue to get better if anything his growth has been stunted by what JS/PC has done to the OL. He is going to get paid. The Seahawks will offer him and I can almost guarantee you he will get bigger offers from other teams. Will he take the money or stay with us? Who knows. Its also pretty obvious to me that Glowinski must not be hitting on much or he would be playing in place of Britt, who has been atrocious.

 

[Tical21]

OK so.....

No ones has thoughts on Alvin Bailey being just plain bad?

We've seen very little of him. He actually had moments, I believe in the Carolina game. He had a play where he blew a guy up, and hustled down the field to get another guy as the runner made his way down field. Then two plays later he got blown past.

 

[Laloosh]

We need to stop drafting D line types and trying to convert them to O line.

Once is a novelty. Now its just silly.

It's weird because I totally get this, yet we're the #1 rushing offense in the league... behind a terrible OL. It's surreal.

 

[DavidSeven]

We need to stop drafting D line types and trying to convert them to O line.

Once is a novelty. Now its just silly.

It's weird because I totally get this, yet we're the #1 rushing offense in the league... behind a terrible OL. It's surreal.

Take out Russ's rushing yardage, and we're closer to the middle of the pack.

ATL, ARI, NYJ, PITT...those teams are run blocking a lot better than us in conventional setups, and I think most observers would agree on that. But our numbers will always get inflated with Russ running around.

 

[lobohawk]

If Nowak is good enough to be considered Center and Britt is struggling quite a bit at Guard, would it be feasible to have Lem play Center and shift Nowak to Guard?

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

We need to stop drafting D line types and trying to convert them to O line.

Once is a novelty. Now its just silly.

It's weird because I totally get this, yet we're the #1 rushing offense in the league... behind a terrible OL. It's surreal.

Take out Russ's rushing yardage, and we're closer to the middle of the pack.

ATL, ARI, NYJ, PITT...those teams are run blocking a lot better than us in conventional setups, and I think most observers would agree on that. But our numbers will always get inflated with Russ running around.

Honestly though, I don't think you can divorce Wilson from the equation.

We scheme the runs around Wilson's ability. The fact that defenses have to account for him affects the rushing opportunities for the RBs. And in order to maintain that effect, Wilson has to rush at times to maintain the threat.

If we didn't have a mobile QB, we'd run different plays with different personnel groups. And probably opt to value a blocking TE more than we currently do.

The plays and scheme do go hand in hand with the strengths of the players we have.

 

[DavidSeven]

Honestly though, I don't think you can divorce Wilson from the equation.

We scheme the runs around Wilson's ability. The fact that defenses have to account for him affects the rushing opportunities for the RBs. And in order to maintain that effect, Wilson has to rush at times to maintain the threat.

If we didn't have a mobile QB, we'd run different plays with different personnel groups. And probably opt to value a blocking TE more than we currently do.

The plays and scheme do go hand in hand with the strengths of the players we have.

I don't disagree with this sentiment at all when we're evaluating the overall offense. In that case, you absolutely include Wilson's rushing yards.

But we're talking strictly about OL performance here. And I just can't say say we have the best OL run-blocking in the league when we're getting a quarter of our yards from QB rushes. Another example is SF; they're top-10 in rushing with Kap's yards, but everyone can tell they're one of the worst true run blocking teams in the league.

 

[leto69]

Cable has been consistently regarded Sweeney as even the best Guard in the NFL this year and last year. Cable in my opinion over estimates his ability to convert DL to OL to be effective and be able to call them average is a stretch. How he evaluates OL talent is beyond my understanding. But the fact that he continues to endorse them as great player has to make one wonder if he is still coaching here because Pot is legal in Washington.

Is Sweeney the 2nd best line man we have, yes but that isn't saying much. Okung is the best we have however he is not better than a average tackle. Britt has made no strides, and Gilliam was practice squad last year. The Nowak experiment finally came to a end thank god after 4 preseason and 6 regular season games. Way to much time to invest in a player with no potential.

 

[Laloosh]

Cable has been consistently regarded Sweeney as even the best Guard in the NFL this year and last year. Cable in my opinion over estimates his ability to convert DL to OL to be effective and be able to call them average is a stretch. How he evaluates OL talent is beyond my understanding. But the fact that he continues to endorse them as great player has to make one wonder if he is still coaching here because Pot is legal in Washington.

Is Sweeney the 2nd best line man we have, yes but that isn't saying much. Okung is the best we have however he is not better than a average tackle. Britt has made no strides, and Gilliam was practice squad last year. The Nowak experiment finally came to a end thank god after 4 preseason and 6 regular season games. Way to much time to invest in a player with no potential.

Who is this Sweeney that you speak of?

Also, Nowak is starting this week. Once Lewis recovers from injury, they will battle it out for the spot (as Pete said).

 

[hawknation2015]

Cable has been consistently regarded Sweeney as even the best Guard in the NFL this year and last year. Cable in my opinion over estimates his ability to convert DL to OL to be effective and be able to call them average is a stretch. How he evaluates OL talent is beyond my understanding. But the fact that he continues to endorse them as great player has to make one wonder if he is still coaching here because Pot is legal in Washington.

Is Sweeney the 2nd best line man we have, yes but that isn't saying much. Okung is the best we have however he is not better than a average tackle. Britt has made no strides, and Gilliam was practice squad last year. The Nowak experiment finally came to a end thank god after 4 preseason and 6 regular season games. Way to much time to invest in a player with no potential.

Who is this Sweeney that you speak of?

Also, Nowak is starting this week. Once Lewis recovers from injury, they will battle it out for the spot (as Pete said).

Lewis is back from injury . . . they were competing on Thursday and Friday. Carroll would not say who would be starting at center.

 

[Jville]

I think proclamations of the demise of JR Sweezy along with the demise of other targeted linemen in past weeks is greatly exaggerated. Building an offensive line is a process. Sure is nice not seeing all the week to week injuries we saw last year. That really helps with such a young line.

 

[Laloosh]

Lewis is back from injury . . . they were competing on Thursday and Friday. Carroll would not say who would be starting at center.

Are you implying that I misheard something? That would never happen...

 

[hawknation2015]

The fact Carroll was being coy about who would start at center, while at the same time saying it was "likely" Alvin Bailey would be starting at LT, makes me think Lewis could be starting again. Both Lewis and Nowak have each had their moments. Nowak has been cleaner in pass pro, while Lewis is probably the better run blocker. This decision could be huge going forward. You don't want to be playing musical chairs at such an important position.

 

[CalgaryHawk]

Sleezy is always good for several dirty penalties each year, such as an illegal cut block, leg whip, or unnecessary roughness. Cable seems to value Skeezy's dirt bag playing style, but I wish Sleezy could be smarter about his dirt bag style as his penalties always seem to hurt us in games. It's difficult for any offence to overcome 15 yard penalties, let alone the Hawks offence which wants to run the ball and get into short 3rd down conversions. It makes me wonder why Cable didn't want to sign Incognoto in the offseason, as he apparently likes those kind of Olineman that play with an edge.

 

[chris98251]

I actually think having Unger gone has made everyone look worse, he was smart, made the calls and was a technician, notice how both guards have looked abysmal many times, the anchor for them was Unger. Having things start in the Center and work towards the tackles on both sides.