Scottemojo
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A seahawk fan can have a civil discussion with a niner fan. Just imagine what he said was not a criticism. because it wasn't.
The wording of the thread title has kind of made the whole thread antagonistic, hasn't it? Emo wording rarely works out.v1rotv2":34s28pws said:It is very short sighted to make assumptions about the quality of the Oline now when the season is still 5 months away. Is it not possible that JS and PC have a process and this is part of it? The beauty about JS is that he is always thinking and moving. I'll take a play maker over a center every time. As much as I liked Unger he is still a center, a good one but still a center.
JS mentioned on the radio that we have not seen some of the talent they have and I trust them on that.
Jville":292dvi4l said:This just in .... Coach Carroll is confirming what we are seeing from the tweets. I.E. lots of movement among linemen.
Back on Topic
[tweet]https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/576101446552178688[/tweet]
Seahawk Sailor":1cvkjm5o said:Jville":1cvkjm5o said:This just in .... Coach Carroll is confirming what we are seeing from the tweets. I.E. lots of movement among linemen.
Back on Topic
[tweet]https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/576101446552178688[/tweet]
Guys wanting to come play for a great organization that treats its players well and is also a 5:1 favorite to win the Super Bowl? I'd think so!
Scottemojo":1geacgkj said:You are getting the Niner fan treatment.Popeyejones":1geacgkj said:Basis4day":1geacgkj said:Round 3-5 Projected Backups... yeah. If you don't know what the Hawks do in the 5th rd through their roster you really don't know our team at all.
Considering we took a DT in the 7th and turned him into a starting RG and won a SB in the last two years behind a strong rushing attack i'd say they know what they're doing with the O-Line
You're shifting the argument. You're now claiming that I said that the Hawks don't know what they're doing with their O-line, when I said that in recent history they haven't been dedicating resources to their O-Line.
It's particularly annoying because you're now accusing me of the exact opposite of the point I was arguing: my point, quite clearly expressed I thought, was that I think they DO KNOW WHAT they're doing with their O-Line.
Remember, your argument is that the Hawks HAVE BEEN putting resources into their O-Line as of late. You've just been, while alluding to them, refusing to specify what those resources are. That they're starting a converted 7th round defensive tackle at offensive guard is really, really, really, really not a strong point for your argument, so I don't know why you're bringing that up (it's like you're pulling my trump card for me :lol: ).
You are also spot on. As the team evolves, the Carpenter and Okung type picks have been replaced by Bailey and Gilliam type picks. Throwing first round picks at the line has not resulted in dominant and durable starters. Which is what I would want from first round picks.
Which has always kind of been the theory with zone blocking. Gibbs the guru joked about being able to turn a garbageman into a good zone blocker.
Scottemojo":3kv5hk51 said:A seahawk fan can have a civil discussion with a niner fan. Just imagine what he said was not a criticism. because it wasn't.
Popeyejones":3ozhd0am said:FWIW though, if correct, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they start dedicating draft (or FA) capital to the line again. Slotting that capital into other position groups has clearly worked wonders for them, but in some ways I think they've already won; the rest of the roster is now strong enough and mostly locked up, and continuing on with the strategy just has diminishing returns at some point. .
FWIW, I was stunned when they took Okung and Carpenter. Gibbs had never had a top LT prospect to work with, IIRC the highest he had ever selected a LT was 26, and when they hired Gibbs and his coach em up philosophy it felt like going a bit low rent on the line was in the cards. Carpenter was an OK guard who was at his best vs Power DL like Justin Smith, but he really struggled with speed, which was why he didn't stick at RT and got wrecked at G by guys like Aaron Donald, and was at a disadvantage if there was a stunt from the LDE. I still think Carpenter was miscast in a Zone, he was too big and too slow. Sweezy is a much better example of what can be done with a know nothing athletic guy. He catches a lot of shit on this board, but he is a genuine athlete and bad ass, despite his occasional glaring mistake. A perfect zone blocker.Popeyejones":2jmliri1 said:Scottemojo":2jmliri1 said:A seahawk fan can have a civil discussion with a niner fan. Just imagine what he said was not a criticism. because it wasn't.
Thanks, man.
If I'm wrong (and I very well could be), the consequence would be that I'm mistakenly giving J.S. and P.C. too much credit, and complimenting them for brilliant strategy and roster manipulation when what I'm seeing is really just a glitch (you know, like how 9ers fans are always too quick to talk about how smart J.S. and P.C. are :lol: ).
FWIW though, if correct, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they start dedicating draft (or FA) capital to the line again. Slotting that capital into other position groups has clearly worked wonders for them, but in some ways I think they've already won; the rest of the roster is now strong enough and mostly locked up, and continuing on with the strategy just has diminishing returns at some point.
Going back to the O-Line can also be a preparatory move for moving on from Lynch, or for Wilson's development with using the pocket to manipulate the rush (as Brees, who he cites a lot, is probably as good or better at than anyone in the NFL).
That said, I think you raise a really good point about the zone blocking scheme and its history when executed well; they could be playing this game forever.
Popeyejones":r45o1ub9 said:For awhile I was confused by how little resources the Hawks were dedicating to the O-line.
Over time I've decided that it's part of their strategy, because it's too weird for it not to be...
I think the Seahawks have just made the conscious decision that they'll pull resources from the offensive line and put it into other units (the secondary, the d-line).
bigskydoc":3v087og1 said:Popeyejones":3v087og1 said:For awhile I was confused by how little resources the Hawks were dedicating to the O-line.
Over time I've decided that it's part of their strategy, because it's too weird for it not to be...
I think the Seahawks have just made the conscious decision that they'll pull resources from the offensive line and put it into other units (the secondary, the d-line).
I think you are pretty much on the money here in terms of the recent history. They haven't put a ton of capital into improving the line in the last few years. Rather, they have focused that capital on other areas of greater need and banked on the capital already spent on the O-line.
You seem to suggest, though, that this is just the way it is always going to be with Carroll/ Schneider and they are somehow satisfied with letting Wilson/Lynch perpetually make up for lack of a good line.
Maybe I am mis-interpreting, and you really are saying that this is the short-term strategy to prioritize other segments of the team since Lynch/ Wilson can make do for now with a league average line for now. I think that is the correct assessment.
I think their strategy is one of prioritization of need in the short-term rather than a strategy of never devoting significant resources to the offensive line, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some significant resources devoted to improving the line in the (very) near future.
For evidence of this, I would point to their history. The very first pick of the Carroll era in Seattle was Okung, and the first two picks of his second draft were Carpenter and Moffitt. These picks were made on top of an already existing 2nd round pick at center from the year before Carroll took over.
I do think we will be spending significant capital on the line, it just hasn't been the priority yet.
- bsd
Popeyejones":293otavl said:...FWIW though, if correct, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they start dedicating draft (or FA) capital to the line again. Slotting that capital into other position groups has clearly worked wonders for them, but in some ways I think they've already won; the rest of the roster is now strong enough and mostly locked up, and continuing on with the strategy just has diminishing returns at some point.
Going back to the O-Line can also be a preparatory move for moving on from Lynch, or for Wilson's development with using the pocket to manipulate the rush (as Brees, who he cites a lot, is probably as good or better at than anyone in the NFL).
That said, I think you raise a really good point about the zone blocking scheme and its history when executed well; they could be playing this game forever.
Weadoption":w95erbco said:Marshawn and RW do as much together to make their O lines job easier than anyone in the game.
.
bigskydoc":2av25mpj said:Weadoption":2av25mpj said:Marshawn and RW do as much together to make their O lines job easier than anyone in the game.
.
Wilson does more than any other quarterback in the league to make his O-line's job more difficult
-bsd
We've been working for some time to create a competitive situation there so we can make some moves