So we are going to be a run-first team with no O-line?

[Scottemojo]

Pete Carrol was on 710 today and was asked about the "holes" they had created in the line by letting Carpenter go and trading away Max Unger. His response was:

We've been working for some time to create a competitive situation there so we can make some moves

I don't know how much evidence people need that they were planning to rework the line all along. Maybe now that Pete has come out and said exactly that you'll believe them? They have a plan and they are following it. I fully expect them to bring in lots of talent and see who sticks, sort of like when they were building the DB group. However if they don't then that just means they already have the guys they are confident in. Most likely it will be a mixture of the two approaches.

Sit back and watch Pete and John work... :snack:

Translation: We have security with Bailey at all times. If he reaches for a donut, we taze him.

 

[Hawkfan77]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/576119188873314304[/tweet]

Well I take it that means we won't be drafting any


:stirthepot:

 

[Hawkfan77]

Marshawn and RW do as much together to make their O lines job easier than anyone in the game.
.

Wilson does more than any other quarterback in the league to make his O-line's job more difficult

-bsd

How is turning crap blocking into TD's making an O-line's job more difficult? If Russell was immobile, this forum would be ON FIRE with threads calling for Pete, Cable and every O-lineman's head.

Sure his scrambling around and holding onto the ball more than most QB's can make it hard to block for, but FAR more than not Russell turns sure sacks into positive yards.

Agreed, big sky's comment makes no sense to me at all

If anything, Russell masks the OL's pass pro deficiencies

 

[MontanaHawk05]

It was mentioned earlier (don't remember by whom) that Jimmy Graham will essentially act as another offensive lineman. He'll do it the same way Percy Harvin was expected to, by occupying another defender and keeping him from stacking the box against Lynch. Except Graham will actually, you know, DO it instead of acting like a diva and getting himself traded again.

So that may help ameliorate the damage to the line. Anything to keep more blockers off Lynch, so he doesn't wear down so fast. I'm surprised he has any cartilage left.

 

[kearly]

Cable is a tough coach to form an opinion on. He does stuff that I hate, like playing favorites with inferior talents, drafting poorly early for OL, and generally being enamored with terrible players thinking he can fix them.

But the thing is, he generally does fix them. He can't turn an average OL into a star, but he can turn a terrible one into average.

I don't think Cable is THE best OL coach in the game right now, but he is probably the best at taking bad OL and making them passable.

For that reason, being left with scraps at OL just doesn't scare me really at all. It's the total opposite of the TR days when I was screaming from the rooftops that going bargain hunting at OL would be the end of the regime.

 

[staga206]

Stop Freak'n and call Beacon man! We never had a steady Oline since Pete took over. Tom Cable is the best Oline coach in the NFL. They will figure it out like they always do. They bring the best out of every player they coach.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Not sure if I read it here or somewhere else, but it was pointed out that the rushing number differential with and without Unger is a lot less when you take that Giants game out of the mix.

Going to miss Unger being a Hawk. But in Carpenter's case, he was criticized so much. I'd like to think he can be replaced with someone of equal ability.

 

[bigskydoc]

How is turning crap blocking into TD's making an O-line's job more difficult?

Agreed, big sky's comment makes no sense to me at all

If anything, Russell masks the OL's pass pro deficiencies

How? What exactly does Russ do to mask the offensive line's pass pro deficiency?

If you consider what a quarterback can do to mask the deficiencies in an offensive line's pass pro, make their job easier, and make them look better, it is pretty much the opposite of the things that Russ does that makes his game so good and so successful. As I have said before, Russ's job is to win games, not make the O-line look good. Keep that in mind as you read this list of what a QB can do to make an O-line look better/ mask their deficiencies etc.


1 - Reduce the time from snap to pass. The faster the QB gets the ball out, the less time the OL needs to block and the less likely a blown block will result in a QB pressure/ sack. For each and every season Russ has been in the NFL, he has been at the top of the league for longest snap to pass time.

2 - Remain in a predictable place so the line knows where he is and how to direct their blocks. Russ is completely unpredictable. He is as likely to run one way as the other. He is as likely to drop DEEEP to avoid the pressure as he is to step up into the pocket.

3 - Get rid of the ball quickly when pressure is recognized and before it gets to the QB. Under pressure, Wilson will hold the ball until the last possible second. In the first Arizona game last year, this was directly responsible for 4 sacks (it has also been responsible for innumerable phenomenal and memorable positive plays as well)

4 - Make pre-snap reads of the defense and change his protections/ play call when the defense has him outfoxed. Wilson has made great strides in this over the last three years, but still has a way to go. An additional sack in the 1st Arizona game came because they had us outmanned on the line 6-5 and Wilson either didn't recognize it, or didn't change the protection or the play call.

4 - Make post-snap adjustments based on what the defense actually brings. The way to beat Wilson is to disguise your blitz package. Either show it and don't bring it, or hide it an bring it. He tends to go with the pre-snap read instead of adjusting his play to what actually comes at him. If you bring a disguised blitz, he usually doesn't pick it up and dump the ball to a hot route like he should. This does nothing to make his line look better.

What am I missing?

Sure his scrambling around and holding onto the ball more than most QB's can make it hard to block for, but FAR more than not Russell turns sure sacks into positive yards.

Exactly right. The things that Russ does that make him so special, so great, and so successful are the same things that make his O-line look worse than they really are. I wouldn't change those things in his game.

If Russell was immobile, this forum would be ON FIRE with threads calling for Pete, Cable and every O-lineman's head.

And I would be right their with them. I never said he should be immobile or try to be a pocket passer, so don't insinuate that I did. That isn't Russ's game. We are here to win games, not have a O-line beauty contest.

- bsd RPA

 

[Grahamhawker]

Not sure if I read it here or somewhere else, but it was pointed out that the rushing number differential with and without Unger is a lot less when you take that Giants game out of the mix.

Going to miss Unger being a Hawk. But in Carpenter's case, he was criticized so much. I'd like to think he can be replaced with someone of equal ability.

And fairly easily, with any of a more developed Bailey, journeyman FA, or average mid-rounder I'd say.

 

[two dog]

The Seahawks could use some luck and they just got some...

No games in April.

Britt and Gilliam have a year's experience now. Bailey has a year of plugging
holes. Lewis came out of seemingly nowhere and played not bad for such
limited NFL experience. Lem is healthy again. Okung and Sweezy are solid.

I'm sure the O-line will be adressed through free agency, the draft and cuts
from other rosters. It could hardly be worse than last year. I'm hopeful
that it will be better.

 

[Popeyejones]

EDIT:

Somehow missed bigskydoc's response a few posts up. My post that was here covered some of the same basic points and added nothing new, so it's now deleted out.

In any case, 100% agreed with him.

 

[volsunghawk]

How is turning crap blocking into TD's making an O-line's job more difficult?

Agreed, big sky's comment makes no sense to me at all

If anything, Russell masks the OL's pass pro deficiencies

How? What exactly does Russ do to mask the offensive line's pass pro deficiency?

If you consider what a quarterback can do to mask the deficiencies in an offensive line's pass pro, make their job easier, and make them look better, it is pretty much the opposite of the things that Russ does that makes his game so good and so successful. As I have said before, Russ's job is to win games, not make the O-line look good. Keep that in mind as you read this list of what a QB can do to make an O-line look better/ mask their deficiencies etc.


1 - Reduce the time from snap to pass. The faster the QB gets the ball out, the less time the OL needs to block and the less likely a blown block will result in a QB pressure/ sack. For each and every season Russ has been in the NFL, he has been at the top of the league for longest snap to pass time.

2 - Remain in a predictable place so the line knows where he is and how to direct their blocks. Russ is completely unpredictable. He is as likely to run one way as the other. He is as likely to drop DEEEP to avoid the pressure as he is to step up into the pocket.

3 - Get rid of the ball quickly when pressure is recognized and before it gets to the QB. Under pressure, Wilson will hold the ball until the last possible second. In the first Arizona game last year, this was directly responsible for 4 sacks (it has also been responsible for innumerable phenomenal and memorable positive plays as well)

4 - Make pre-snap reads of the defense and change his protections/ play call when the defense has him outfoxed. Wilson has made great strides in this over the last three years, but still has a way to go. An additional sack in the 1st Arizona game came because they had us outmanned on the line 6-5 and Wilson either didn't recognize it, or didn't change the protection or the play call.

4 - Make post-snap adjustments based on what the defense actually brings. The way to beat Wilson is to disguise your blitz package. Either show it and don't bring it, or hide it an bring it. He tends to go with the pre-snap read instead of adjusting his play to what actually comes at him. If you bring a disguised blitz, he usually doesn't pick it up and dump the ball to a hot route like he should. This does nothing to make his line look better.

What am I missing?

Anthony!'s coming for you, bsd. And hell's coming with him! :mrgreen:

 

[Scottemojo]

Fact: Wilson holds the ball longer than anyone.
After one game where the o-line was getting excoriated, I did a thread here that showed al least half the sacks were on Wilson. Pictures and everything. Lots of fans got defensive about it, falling back on the YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PLAY CALLS ARE!, but he was taking sacks after having the ball more than 3 seconds. Our receiver group isn't great, and our OC loves to run deep slow developing routes in some odd situations, so not every sack that is past 3 seconds in on Russ, and his scrambling from immediate pressure creates some of that time too, but there is a clear reluctance by most fans to lay any blame on Russ and all of it on the O-line. This tendency is in all fanbases, as I am sure Popeye can testify.
I don't have the stats for 2014 yet, but in 2013 more than half his negative plays were when he held the ball over 3 seconds, and often 4 or 5. Russ had more plays of 5 or more seconds than any other QB in the league that year, a stat I am sure holds true for last year as well. But the majority of his big plays also came when he held the ball for more than 3 seconds. Russ is a gambler. The line takes a lot of the blame for his failures. But gets little credit for his successes.

I have resigned myself to the fact that as long as Russ is QB in Seattle, clamoring about how much the line sucks will be part and parcel, it's just part of the deal. Sweezy will get blasted for his 2 negative plays a game a lot more than he will get credit for being 20 yards down field blocking on a run, Britt the same.

 

[Popeyejones]

This tendency is in all fanbases, as I am sure Popeye can testify.

Yep. Absolutely. Iupati recently defended his status as having given up more sacks last year than any other guard in the NFL by essentially saying that his job in pass-pro was really hard because Kaepernick is a mobile QB, whereas if you looked at how many sacks he was giving up with Alex Smith behind him it was much lower.

9ers fans went ape about this. Iupati struggles in pass pro, but he's also right.

9ers fans are MUCH more critical of Kap than Seahawks fans are of Wilson (for good reason :lol: ) but even they have a major tendency to play the Anything-But-Kaepernick card, and throw the rest of the team under the bus in defense of their QB.

 

[Weadoption]

I honestly hope Baalke shocks the world for a major trade up to #2 for Mariota, that's where I am with Kap.
I hope Kap provese me wrong, but thus far there are just an alarming number of instances where he misses big plays due to nothing more than not being able to see them.
big big year for Kap, I think he's gone if his play is a rerun of last year.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

This tendency is in all fanbases, as I am sure Popeye can testify.

9ers fans are MUCH more critical of Kap than Seahawks fans are of Wilson (for good reason :lol: ) but even they have a major tendency to play the Anything-But-Kaepernick card, and throw the rest of the team under the bus in defense of their QB.

I am in agreement with both. I think it's going to be part and parcel with how Wilson operates. Take the good with the bad.

Wilson is good at making his read progressions and passing from the pocket when he has open targets. Added talent at the receiver position -- particularly guys gifted at getting open quickly -- should reduce that pressures number more than just upgrading the line.

OL is a thankless position. If you do everything perfectly, then you are just playing up to par. It's not very fair but is what it is.

 

[Scottemojo]

I honestly hope Baalke shocks the world for a major trade up to #2 for Mariota, that's where I am with Kap.
I hope Kap provese me wrong, but thus far there are just an alarming number of instances where he misses big plays due to nothing more than not being able to see them.
big big year for Kap, I think he's gone if his play is a rerun of last year.

I just think they rushed his development into being a pocket passer. In fact, at some point, admitting he isn't a traditional QB and just going with his strengths would have been the correct move. Though, I get the impression from Kaepernick himself that he is a bit obsessed with proving he is a complete pocket player. Also, they spent on passing weapons last year, running read option would have been counter to using those guys to their intended goal.

Kaep is a conundrum for sure, but he keeps DCs awake at night. The thing I am most curious about this year is to see if he is put back into the role of running QB who can pass, which is where I see him making the biggest impact.

 

[Optimus25]

I disagree with your logic. I think our defense is built to play with a lead regardless of TOP. Graham helps that cause tremendously.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I honestly hope Baalke shocks the world for a major trade up to #2 for Mariota, that's where I am with Kap.
I hope Kap provese me wrong, but thus far there are just an alarming number of instances where he misses big plays due to nothing more than not being able to see them.
big big year for Kap, I think he's gone if his play is a rerun of last year.

People keep saying this for not only the Eagles, but now other teams.

It's not going to happen. The Skins had to give up THREE #1 draft picks just to move up four spots for RG3. The Eagles are 20, the Niners 15........they'd have to give up twice as much to move all the way up to #2.

Besides, Tennessee obviously needs a QB, so they're picking Mariota.

 

[bigskydoc]

Anthony!'s coming for you, bsd. And hell's coming with him! :mrgreen:

8) Bring it on. I'm waiting.

Fact: Wilson holds the ball longer than anyone.
After one game where the o-line was getting excoriated, I did a thread here that showed al least half the sacks were on Wilson. Pictures and everything.

I recall a couple of good threads you started on this.

After the AZ game. http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=101771

and after the SF game http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103389

- bsd