Serious ? What did Seattle do to earn wrath of Officials?

[Popeyejones]

^^^To the best of my knowledge the accusation of this thread has happened in none of those sports.

We’re not talking about a ref influencing random games he’s assigned to personally profit. We’re not talking about corruption in securing Super Bowl bids.

We’re talking a system wide conspiracy to keep your favorite team down, or at least we were, until someone read a Florio think piece and started pretending that what they really mean was a system wide conspiracy to keep games close.

They busted an official a few years ago for guiding games in the NBA.

The 2007 NBA betting scandal was a scandal involving the National Basketball Association (NBA) and accusations that an NBA referee used his knowledge of relationships between referees, coaches, players and owners to bet on professional basketball games. In July 2007, reports of an investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) were made public, which alleged that during the 2005–06 and 2006–07 NBA seasons, referee Tim Donaghy bet on games in which he officiated.[1]
On August 15, 2007, Donaghy pleaded guilty to two federal charges related to the investigation, and a year later he was sentenced to 15 months in prison and three years of supervised release. As a result, the general reaction by the media was that the NBA's popularity would be hurt by the news of this scandal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_betting_scandal

The Black Sox Scandal was a Major League Baseball match fixing incident in which eight members of the Chicago White Sox were accused of intentionally losing the 1919 World Series against the Cincinnati Reds in exchange for money from a gambling syndicate led by Arnold Rothstein. The fallout from the scandal resulted in the appointment of Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis as the first Commissioner of Baseball, granting him absolute control over the sport in order to restore its integrity.
Despite acquittals in a public trial in 1921, Judge Landis permanently banned all eight men from professional baseball. The punishment was eventually defined to also include banishment from post-career honors such as consideration for the Baseball Hall of Fame. Despite requests for reinstatement in the decades that followed (particularly in the case of Shoeless Joe Jackson), the ban remains in force as of 2017.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal

The report found that the match-rigging syndicate and its referees infiltrated the upper reaches of global soccer in order to fix exhibition matches and exploit them for betting purposes. It provides extensive details of the clever and brazen ways that fixers apparently manipulated “at least five matches and possibly more” in South Africa ahead of the last World Cup. As many as 15 matches were targets, including a game between the United States and Australia, according to interviews and emails printed in the FIFA report.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/01/sports/soccer/fixed-matches-cast-shadow-over-world-cup.html

Go ahead and call bullshit on these, then tell me the Steeler Super Bowl wasn't suspiciously called, and that the amount of flags common in todays games are not possibly steering games.

Yeah, as I said, these are all about people fixing games to personally profit. It's a single ref or several refs who are either betting on games, or being paid off by people who are betting on games in order to earn money.

Of course that has happened. Nobody would deny that.

Individual people fixing individual games in order to swing odds on their bets is categorically different than a league-wide conspiracy to hold a particular team down.

The first involves a small number of people with an incredibly clear motive and non-recurring harm. The second involves and incredibly large number of people with incredibly unclear motives that are fixing games against an entire franchise and fanbase over time. If you honestly believe there's a league-wide conspiracy to keep the Hawks down I don't even understand why you'd watch.

If you can't see the difference between those two I don't know what to tell you.

 

[SeaChat]

Here is one for all you statistitions to calculate into your theories. Look at the number of penalties called on the Seahawks since the NFL nominated themselves the fair and unbiased overseers of all calls and replay outcomes, verses the numbers before they ordained themselves the moral and final authority in play calling.

Follow the money for crying out loud. Consider the teams that stand to earn the NFL itself the more you’ll recognize that they are systematically manipulating the outcomes of all the games, not just the Seahawks. They’ll see to it that we advance into the playoffs, and will see to it that the teams that stand to earn them the most on Super Bowl Sunday arrive there as well.

It’s not the officials that suck, they are just doing what Net York whispers in their ears thru their headsets, throughout each game. Ever since the NY talking heads took over officiating their games it’s been corrupt as hell. Why in God’s name we, the public, would stand by and condone the foxes guarding of our henhouses, and think things aren’t dirty as can be, has baffled me since they pronounced themselves the “Overseerers”. They have way to much invested in who wins and who looses, to be fair an unbiased. The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach and angry as hell, their stealing something that means so much to me by their actions.

You all can play dumb if you choose to, I can’t and won’t choose to. Instead I’ll call it like I see it and withstand the wrath and ridicule from those who believe they know better. Wanna go to the Super Bowl? Convince the NFL we’ll make them the most money in Minnesota in 2018. My 2 cents worth.

Go Seahawks!

 

[scutterhawk]

^^^To the best of my knowledge the accusation of this thread has happened in none of those sports.

We’re not talking about a ref influencing random games he’s assigned to personally profit. We’re not talking about corruption in securing Super Bowl bids.

We’re talking a system wide conspiracy to keep your favorite team down, or at least we were, until someone read a Florio think piece and started pretending that what they really mean was a system wide conspiracy to keep games close.

They busted an official a few years ago for guiding games in the NBA.

The 2007 NBA betting scandal was a scandal involving the National Basketball Association (NBA) and accusations that an NBA referee used his knowledge of relationships between referees, coaches, players and owners to bet on professional basketball games. In July 2007, reports of an investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) were made public, which alleged that during the 2005–06 and 2006–07 NBA seasons, referee Tim Donaghy bet on games in which he officiated.[1]
On August 15, 2007, Donaghy pleaded guilty to two federal charges related to the investigation, and a year later he was sentenced to 15 months in prison and three years of supervised release. As a result, the general reaction by the media was that the NBA's popularity would be hurt by the news of this scandal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_betting_scandal

The Black Sox Scandal was a Major League Baseball match fixing incident in which eight members of the Chicago White Sox were accused of intentionally losing the 1919 World Series against the Cincinnati Reds in exchange for money from a gambling syndicate led by Arnold Rothstein. The fallout from the scandal resulted in the appointment of Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis as the first Commissioner of Baseball, granting him absolute control over the sport in order to restore its integrity.
Despite acquittals in a public trial in 1921, Judge Landis permanently banned all eight men from professional baseball. The punishment was eventually defined to also include banishment from post-career honors such as consideration for the Baseball Hall of Fame. Despite requests for reinstatement in the decades that followed (particularly in the case of Shoeless Joe Jackson), the ban remains in force as of 2017.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal

The report found that the match-rigging syndicate and its referees infiltrated the upper reaches of global soccer in order to fix exhibition matches and exploit them for betting purposes. It provides extensive details of the clever and brazen ways that fixers apparently manipulated “at least five matches and possibly more” in South Africa ahead of the last World Cup. As many as 15 matches were targets, including a game between the United States and Australia, according to interviews and emails printed in the FIFA report.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/01/sports/soccer/fixed-matches-cast-shadow-over-world-cup.html

Go ahead and call bullshit on these, then tell me the Steeler Super Bowl wasn't suspiciously called, and that the amount of flags common in todays games are not possibly steering games.

Yeah, as I said, these are all about people fixing games to personally profit. It's a single ref or several refs who are either betting on games, or being paid off by people who are betting on games in order to earn money.

Of course that has happened. Nobody would deny that.

Individual people fixing individual games in order to swing odds on their bets is categorically different than a league-wide conspiracy to hold a particular team down.

The first involves a small number of people with an incredibly clear motive and non-recurring harm. The second involves and incredibly large number of people with incredibly unclear motives that are fixing games against an entire franchise and fanbase over time. If you honestly believe there's a league-wide conspiracy to keep the Hawks down I don't even understand why you'd watch.

If you can't see the difference between those two I don't know what to tell you.

Referees can and DO miss plays that deserve penalty flags, BUT the scale has been heavily tipping against the Seahawks in several games this Season, the lopsided numbers are conclusive, and they don't lie.
IF the Referees are SAAVEY ENOUGH to catch every mistake that ONLY ONE team is making, They are doing a HALF ASSED JOB.
It's also not impossible for some Referees to be instructed by the League, to direct their focus on certain players, or teams.
God help you if the League gets a woody for you, and don't try and convince me that they would never do that.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

Here is something from a couple of years ago. Sure many remember.

So a couple weeks back we had a good thread on here about how the Seahawks opponents are the least penalized of anyone in the NFL - when playing us.

5 of 12 teams have had their season low penalties vs the Hawks.

Pete Carroll has mentioned it. ET mentioned it. Now the media is finally starting to take notice:

http://www.fieldgulls.com/seahawks-anal ... eam-in-nfl



That graph says it all. There is everyone else inside the mean. There are the Seahawks way the hell outside the norm.

And before you say it's because they're the defending champs, here's the stats for this year and last year:

Team Opponent Penalty Bias
Seattle -2.407954545
N.Y. Jets -1.44469697
Denver -1.141322314
Kansas City -0.907575758
Dallas -0.773002755
Cleveland -0.749035813
Atlanta -0.656060606
Houston -0.624517906
Carolina -0.587626263
New England -0.559366391
Indianapolis -0.502754821
St. Louis -0.440495868
N.Y. Giants -0.321212121
Tennessee -0.270661157
Green Bay -0.214646465
Miami -0.094393939
New Orleans -0.058838384
Pittsburgh 0.079393939
Chicago 0.194123049
Buffalo 0.243030303
Detroit 0.394065657
Minnesota 0.455922865
Baltimore 0.520606061
Tampa Bay 0.634986226
Arizona 0.634986226
Jacksonville 0.674931129
Oakland 0.728650138
Cincinnati 0.857713499
San Francisco 1.15785124
Philadelphia 1.498737374
San Diego 1.656060606
Washington 2.301136364

Team Opponent Penalty Bias (2013)
Chicago -1.60879
Cincinnati -1.3496
Jacksonville -1.21868
Washington -1.06227
Carolina -0.89372
San Francisco -0.67656
Oakland -0.61355
Pittsburgh -0.54255
New Orleans -0.48571
Detroit -0.48462
Seattle -0.32821
Tennessee -0.30476
N.Y. Jets -0.26882
Denver -0.08932
Miami 0.048901
Minnesota 0.065568
Philadelphia 0.075458
St. Louis 0.123443
San Diego 0.151648
Kansas City 0.210989
Atlanta 0.267315
Green Bay 0.40989
Tampa Bay 0.410003
Houston 0.427381
N.Y. Giants 0.43663
Cleveland 0.46568
Arizona 0.489377
New England 0.568526
Dallas 0.677289
Buffalo 0.813708
Indianapolis 0.891667
Baltimore 2.354382

http://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/commen ... alysis_oc/

If teams were really focused the week they played the Seahawks (defending champions), they might play more disciplined football, but the 2013 Baltimore Ravens (defending champs) had the highest PAO in the league.

The second possibility is that the opposing teams are committing just as many penalties as they normally do, but that the referees are not calling them. Is there any explanation other than blatant league and referee bias?

It's time 12's started calling foul. Get on the radios, get on the internet, get this in the NFL's face.

Pretty sure much of it is a deliberate strategy by Carroll, and if there is ref bias, it's because it is now common knowledge that Carroll believes deliberate penalties like defensive holding are well worth the price since they will only get called a small percentage of the time.

 

[chris98251]

^^^To the best of my knowledge the accusation of this thread has happened in none of those sports.

We’re not talking about a ref influencing random games he’s assigned to personally profit. We’re not talking about corruption in securing Super Bowl bids.

We’re talking a system wide conspiracy to keep your favorite team down, or at least we were, until someone read a Florio think piece and started pretending that what they really mean was a system wide conspiracy to keep games close.

They busted an official a few years ago for guiding games in the NBA.

The 2007 NBA betting scandal was a scandal involving the National Basketball Association (NBA) and accusations that an NBA referee used his knowledge of relationships between referees, coaches, players and owners to bet on professional basketball games. In July 2007, reports of an investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) were made public, which alleged that during the 2005–06 and 2006–07 NBA seasons, referee Tim Donaghy bet on games in which he officiated.[1]
On August 15, 2007, Donaghy pleaded guilty to two federal charges related to the investigation, and a year later he was sentenced to 15 months in prison and three years of supervised release. As a result, the general reaction by the media was that the NBA's popularity would be hurt by the news of this scandal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_betting_scandal

The Black Sox Scandal was a Major League Baseball match fixing incident in which eight members of the Chicago White Sox were accused of intentionally losing the 1919 World Series against the Cincinnati Reds in exchange for money from a gambling syndicate led by Arnold Rothstein. The fallout from the scandal resulted in the appointment of Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis as the first Commissioner of Baseball, granting him absolute control over the sport in order to restore its integrity.
Despite acquittals in a public trial in 1921, Judge Landis permanently banned all eight men from professional baseball. The punishment was eventually defined to also include banishment from post-career honors such as consideration for the Baseball Hall of Fame. Despite requests for reinstatement in the decades that followed (particularly in the case of Shoeless Joe Jackson), the ban remains in force as of 2017.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal

The report found that the match-rigging syndicate and its referees infiltrated the upper reaches of global soccer in order to fix exhibition matches and exploit them for betting purposes. It provides extensive details of the clever and brazen ways that fixers apparently manipulated “at least five matches and possibly more” in South Africa ahead of the last World Cup. As many as 15 matches were targets, including a game between the United States and Australia, according to interviews and emails printed in the FIFA report.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/01/sports/soccer/fixed-matches-cast-shadow-over-world-cup.html

Go ahead and call bullshit on these, then tell me the Steeler Super Bowl wasn't suspiciously called, and that the amount of flags common in todays games are not possibly steering games.

Yeah, as I said, these are all about people fixing games to personally profit. It's a single ref or several refs who are either betting on games, or being paid off by people who are betting on games in order to earn money.

Of course that has happened. Nobody would deny that.

Individual people fixing individual games in order to swing odds on their bets is categorically different than a league-wide conspiracy to hold a particular team down.

The first involves a small number of people with an incredibly clear motive and non-recurring harm. The second involves and incredibly large number of people with incredibly unclear motives that are fixing games against an entire franchise and fanbase over time. If you honestly believe there's a league-wide conspiracy to keep the Hawks down I don't even understand why you'd watch.

If you can't see the difference between those two I don't know what to tell you.

It's all the same, whether it is the Mob which 2 of these had connections with, or the line for Fantasy Football gambling or straight up odds makers in Vegas or the ownership and or League or a certain group in that list, it is about MONEY, IT IS FIXING GAMES FOR A DESIRED LINE OR OUTCOME !!!!!!!

That means it is a tilted contest, whether the Race Horse owner knows or not someone adding weights to the favorites saddle or lane placement being set up and not a draw to change odds it is a human manipulation of the conditions to favor another's ability to perform and affect the odds and winner of the outcome of the contest.

 

[scutterhawk]

Pretty sure much of it is a deliberate strategy by Carroll, and if there is ref bias, it's because it is now common knowledge that Carroll believes deliberate penalties like defensive holding are well worth the price since they will only get called a small percentage of the time.

You mean like that phantom punch that Lane never threw, which got him ejected from the game "Deliberate"
You KNOW shit is messed up when a Ref IMAGINES a play so sinister, as to throw a player out of a game when no such play has happened.
It's shit like that, that can and sometimes DOES ALTER the outcome of a game.
All things being HONESTLY EQUAL, the number of penalties administered, SHOULDN'T have as wide a chasm between two teams in ANY game.
There's something odoriffc about the team that skates free of penalty flags while playing against the Seahawks, or any team that has pissed off the League, only to find themselves in a knot-holed barrel the following week, drawing the majority of penalties.
The odds are stacked deep against it being that much of a coincidence ^

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

 

[seahawksteve]

After reading this thread, I had to check on the penalties during the first 10 games here's the break down.

game #1 Seattle 8 for 50 vs. green bay 8 for 70 (away)

game #2 Seattle 9 for 71 vs SF 6 for 66 (home)

game #3 Seattle 11 for 98 vs. Tenn 5 for 45 (away)

game #4 Seattle 6 for 45 vs. Indy 5 for 31 (home)

game #5 Seattle 7 for 40 vs. LAR 5 for 45 (away)

game #6 Seattle 15 for 110 vs. NYG 7 for 28 (away)

game #7 Seattle 10 for 120 vs Houston 8 for 93 (home)

game #8 Seattle 16 for 138 vs Washington 7 for 62 (home)

game #9 Seattle 12 for 108 vs Arizona 9 for 58 (away)

game #10 Seattle 9 for 106 vs Atlanta 7 for 69 (home)

only two games where Seattle has had less penalty yards than opponent, no games where Seattle has had less called than opponent. Seattle does challenge the rules, but anyone now if any other team has the much differential? FWIW the lions & vikings game was pretty painful to watch from an officiating standpoint Thursday, watched that thinking how many would have been called had Seattle played the lions and not the vikings.

 

[SeaChat]

I absolutely love this thread. It is without a doubt, the most thoughtful and well reasoned collective of thought and evidence, that I’ve had the privilege of reading here at Seahawks.net, since this site first came to being.

I like to think myself a calm, level headed, well reasoned person, who is not so anxious to see my team win that I would cry “we got robbed” every time we lost a game, unless of course “we got robbed”.

The sport I love has been infiltrated and poisoned by the governing body that has ordained themselves to be its guardians. The team I love has been systematically denied a fair and level playing field to compete in their sport as a result. All the teams have.

I don’t want to see the Seahawks win or lose because the NFL has elected to advance them or elected to deny them through their officiating.

I want to see teams playing fairly officiated football, and see teams advance based on fairly officiated game scores, and not the teams that the odds makers, or the NFL talking heads in NY, decide should advance, or not, based on the maximization of their annual earnings.


Go out to a local high school or small town college football game sometime, and refresh your memory on what a fairly officiated football game looks like. Then sit down and watch an NFL officiated game, and see if you still think it’s being fairly officiated. I did, and it’s not, pure and simple. I want my sport back and it’s not going to happen if the public doesn’t come together and demand it.

That is where greater minds than mine will need to take the lead and show all of us that care the way forward to achieving that for our sport.

Go Seahawks!

 

[seahawksny]

Its been a Seattle Sports plague for decades

Three games stand out in order to make headlines.

SB 40 ...................just so Bettis could go out a winner. One for the thumb garbage etc.


Husky Basketball.......................I think it was 2006 against UCONN in sweet 16. refs called a double technical on Brandon Roy with 10 minutes to play when Dawgs had a big lead. He gets ejected which was not deserved and never happens in college ball. UCONN had George Mason waiting in the wings who was on a roll and who the hell would have cared if Mason beat UW. If they beat UCONN ( which they did, and everyone knew they would) it was a huge Cinderella story, at UW expense.

2003 Western Finals Game 7. Sonics- .................Phoenix goes to the line an unfathomable 50 TIMES that game. Jordan Barkely was more intriguing

There are many more, but these three incidents stand out where our teams were the scapegoats. LONG before the officiating got horrific in the NFL

 

[TwistedHusky]

A large impact that seems to be getting overlooked here is that the Seahawks repeatedly put themselves in positions where mistakes or missed calls by the refs affect them significantly.

In a game where the score is 27 to 12, a missed call or blown drive isn't really a blip on the radar. But because this team stupidly (and it is stupid) puts itself in positions to keep the game close - we are simply more susceptible to missed opportunities.

Missed calls happen. In every game.

We just put ourselves in positions for it to affect us more.

 

[Popeyejones]

For what it's worth, just like the Falcons' fans linked above last week, 49ers fans this week are CERTAIN that games are being swung in favor of the Seahawks.

They're livid over the non-calls and bad calls that benefited the Seahawks. While doing that, of course, they're entirely disinterested in the bad calls and non-calls that benefited the 9ers (much like how the reverse is true here).

They're up in arms over how much holding the Hawks were getting away with, and point to clear non-calls on egregious holding as evidence, such as this from Brian Baldinger:

https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/935 ... 64/video/1

And of course, they're completely disinterested in any holding the 9ers got away with (much like how the reverse is true here, and people are upset about the 9ers getting away with holding).

Just a friendly reminder that every week you think the refs are screwing over your team (or worse: have convinced yourself they're doing so deliberately as part of some vast conspiracy), you can be CERTAIN that the fans of your opponents believe the Seahawks are getting away with murder, and being propped up by the NFL through biased officiating. :lol: :2thumbs:

 

[seahawksny]

A large impact that seems to be getting overlooked here is that the Seahawks repeatedly put themselves in positions where mistakes or missed calls by the refs affect them significantly.

In a game where the score is 27 to 12, a missed call or blown drive isn't really a blip on the radar. But because this team stupidly (and it is stupid) puts itself in positions to keep the game close - we are simply more susceptible to missed opportunities.

Missed calls happen. In every game.

We just put ourselves in positions for it to affect us more.

With this particular team in the Carroll era- where they sleep for 3 qtrs, you are 100% correct.

Games are NEVER won or lost on ONE play, or call. you play for 4 qtrs.

 

[cymatica]

I absolutely love this thread. It is without a doubt, the most thoughtful and well reasoned collective of thought and evidence, that I’ve had the privilege of reading here at Seahawks.net, since this site first came to being.

I like to think myself a calm, level headed, well reasoned person, who is not so anxious to see my team win that I would cry “we got robbed” every time we lost a game, unless of course “we got robbed”.

The sport I love has been infiltrated and poisoned by the governing body that has ordained themselves to be its guardians. The team I love has been systematically denied a fair and level playing field to compete in their sport as a result. All the teams have.

I don’t want to see the Seahawks win or lose because the NFL has elected to advance them or elected to deny them through their officiating.

I want to see teams playing fairly officiated football, and see teams advance based on fairly officiated game scores, and not the teams that the odds makers, or the NFL talking heads in NY, decide should advance, or not, based on the maximization of their annual earnings.


Go out to a local high school or small town college football game sometime, and refresh your memory on what a fairly officiated football game looks like. Then sit down and watch an NFL officiated game, and see if you still think it’s being fairly officiated. I did, and it’s not, pure and simple. I want my sport back and it’s not going to happen if the public doesn’t come together and demand it.

That is where greater minds than mine will need to take the lead and show all of us that care the way forward to achieving that for our sport.

Go Seahawks!

Good point. Add to that the NFL should be setting the example of proper officiating. We should be watching the best of the best, not the same bad mistakes every single game.

 

[Popeyejones]

Go out to a local high school or small town college football game sometime, and refresh your memory on what a fairly officiated football game looks like. Then sit down and watch an NFL officiated game, and see if you still think it’s being fairly officiated. I did, and it’s not, pure and simple. I want my sport back and it’s not going to happen if the public doesn’t come together and demand it.

Have you tried watching a condensed NFL game between two teams you don't really care about?

My guess as far as officiating goes is you'd have the same experience that you do at high school or college games.

I say this because I usually pick 2 or 3 full games to watch a week, and then another 5-8 condensed games to watch a week.

Trying a condensed game is important because like a live game, it denies you of all the zoomed in HD replays from multiple angles that allow fans to feel intellectually superior to officials, and trying a game between teams you don't care about is important because it takes your own rooting interests out of the equation.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Illegal Seahawking

 

[AubHawk71]

The face
t that we are spending this much time analyzing the league, officials, and tv announcers pretty much tells you where the DRAMA lies in the games. It's not a matter of sour grapes/homerism, it's just that it's sizzle over steak, style over substance, blah blah. Just accept that it's the current state of the game. I for one can't wait to see what Reality TV President has to Tweet about it tomorrow!

 

[Lords of Scythia]

The "holding" call on Sheldon Richardson was one of the more egregious BS calls I've seen.

I see egregious calls and no calls against the Seahawks every game. It goes back the Holgren's team versus the Steelers in the SB. You get used to it. Another horrible call (yawn).

Go HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!