A cumulative collection of offensive line grievances

[John63]

I read a couple of posts that actually address the offensive line as a topic. Accompanied by others that are repetitive worn out narratives and regurgitated grievances.

Brown is the only hold over from the recent pre Mike Solari era. This is Mike's 32an year and his third with Seattle this time around. He's collected thirteen linemen who fit what he wants to do. And they are just getting started at competing for roster spots.

This is shaping up to be Mike Solari's year.

That narrative is fine and all, but Solari hasn't been given a lot of ammunition to work with. He's shown he is a good coach, but we have to face the facts that most of the guys on our line have really iffy track records and are really the seconds from other teams. In addition to this we've got a lot of new guys on the line that don't exactly have much time in camp to get the new system down. We went bargain shopping on the offensive line. In addition to this we lost two of our most productive lineman.

Brown and Iupati are also problematic due to age concerns. Iupati especially has a history of missing games. Brown is also getting old in age with no real heir, if he goes down or declines we're in trouble.

I get wanting to be optimistic about the Seahawks, but if there is one thing Pete Carroll has proven over his tenure in Seattle is that he doesn't have a great track record of building offensive lines. Or rather, Carroll doesn't seem to feel the need to invest much money or resources here.

In the end I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time I was wrong -- but I do think there is much to be worried about on the offensive and defensive line this season. There are too many unknowns or counting on guys breaking out.

Respect your view and appreciate your thoughtful reply,

My own perspective processes little fear of venturing out and experimenting. For me there is a great deal to be learned thru both success and failure. It's the annual journey of front office and coaching staff and players that are most interesting and instructive ..... not the season ending accolades.

Pete Carroll's handling of offensive and defensive lines as a reflection of his sense of position priority. Many fans express a poor understanding and appreciation of Pete's priorities. For me, the annual turn over of linemen keeps things interesting and open for player development. The eye of most fans is drawn away from watching line play. Understandably, most don't understand what is very low on their game day priorities. So focused on a celebrated skill players, other discussions are constantly bombarded with repetitive off topic diversions such as thank goodness for this or that marquee player. The Russell Wilson hijack is is among the most popular killer of thread topics. Pre-existing Russell Wilson threads are constantly on page one. And yet, hijacks continue ..... It's ridiculous.

There are times when the forum takes on the back and forth feel of something akin to a tennis forum rather than a team oriented football forum ...... lacking appreciation for what makes up of team and team work. Perhaps if a moderators became more active about moving and editing or outright deleting off topic posts, the forum could expand the scope of meaningful discussion to include all skill positions and all position coaches.

There may come a time when this forum can sustain a discuss about linemen. That's not the case as things stand today ..... we are all the poorer for it. The state of discussion on this forum could become far more expansive and richer than what we are confined to today.

"My own perspective processes little fear of venturing out and experimenting. " the fear is that while they experiment the odds catch up with us and Wilson get hurt and can't play. 8 years and no oline ranked higher than 20th in pass blocking with an avg rank of 26th. nothing in this should make anyone feel good about any oline in the PC era till they prove otherwise.

 

[Jville]

I read a couple of posts that actually address the offensive line as a topic. Accompanied by others that are repetitive worn out narratives and regurgitated grievances.

Brown is the only hold over from the recent pre Mike Solari era. This is Mike's 32an year and his third with Seattle this time around. He's collected thirteen linemen who fit what he wants to do. And they are just getting started at competing for roster spots.

This is shaping up to be Mike Solari's year.

That narrative is fine and all, but Solari hasn't been given a lot of ammunition to work with. He's shown he is a good coach, but we have to face the facts that most of the guys on our line have really iffy track records and are really the seconds from other teams. In addition to this we've got a lot of new guys on the line that don't exactly have much time in camp to get the new system down. We went bargain shopping on the offensive line. In addition to this we lost two of our most productive lineman.

Brown and Iupati are also problematic due to age concerns. Iupati especially has a history of missing games. Brown is also getting old in age with no real heir, if he goes down or declines we're in trouble.

I get wanting to be optimistic about the Seahawks, but if there is one thing Pete Carroll has proven over his tenure in Seattle is that he doesn't have a great track record of building offensive lines. Or rather, Carroll doesn't seem to feel the need to invest much money or resources here.

In the end I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time I was wrong -- but I do think there is much to be worried about on the offensive and defensive line this season. There are too many unknowns or counting on guys breaking out.

Respect your view and appreciate your thoughtful reply,

My own perspective processes little fear of venturing out and experimenting. For me there is a great deal to be learned thru both success and failure. It's the annual journey of front office and coaching staff and players that are most interesting and instructive ..... not the season ending accolades.

Pete Carroll's handling of offensive and defensive lines as a reflection of his sense of position priority. Many fans express a poor understanding and appreciation of Pete's priorities. For me, the annual turn over of linemen keeps things interesting and open for player development. The eye of most fans is drawn away from watching line play. Understandably, most don't understand what is very low on their game day priorities. So focused on a celebrated skill players, other discussions are constantly bombarded with repetitive off topic diversions such as thank goodness for this or that marquee player. The Russell Wilson hijack is is among the most popular killer of thread topics. Pre-existing Russell Wilson threads are constantly on page one. And yet, hijacks continue ..... It's ridiculous.

There are times when the forum takes on the back and forth feel of something akin to a tennis forum rather than a team oriented football forum ...... lacking appreciation for what makes up of team and team work. Perhaps if a moderators became more active about moving and editing or outright deleting off topic posts, the forum could expand the scope of meaningful discussion to include all skill positions and all position coaches.

There may come a time when this forum can sustain a discuss about linemen. That's not the case as things stand today ..... we are all the poorer for it. The state of discussion on this forum could become far more expansive and richer than what we are confined to today.

"My own perspective processes little fear of venturing out and experimenting. " the fear is that while they experiment the odds catch up with us and Wilson get hurt and can't play. 8 years and no oline ranked higher than 20th in pass blocking with an avg rank of 26th. nothing in this should make anyone feel good about any oline in the PC era till they prove otherwise.

Living in fear of Russell getting hurt is your self imposed burden. Why not exercise the courtesy of starting a thread dedicated to your fears for Russell Wilson rather than hijack yet another thread?

 

[John63]

That narrative is fine and all, but Solari hasn't been given a lot of ammunition to work with. He's shown he is a good coach, but we have to face the facts that most of the guys on our line have really iffy track records and are really the seconds from other teams. In addition to this we've got a lot of new guys on the line that don't exactly have much time in camp to get the new system down. We went bargain shopping on the offensive line. In addition to this we lost two of our most productive lineman.

Brown and Iupati are also problematic due to age concerns. Iupati especially has a history of missing games. Brown is also getting old in age with no real heir, if he goes down or declines we're in trouble.

I get wanting to be optimistic about the Seahawks, but if there is one thing Pete Carroll has proven over his tenure in Seattle is that he doesn't have a great track record of building offensive lines. Or rather, Carroll doesn't seem to feel the need to invest much money or resources here.

In the end I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time I was wrong -- but I do think there is much to be worried about on the offensive and defensive line this season. There are too many unknowns or counting on guys breaking out.

Respect your view and appreciate your thoughtful reply,

My own perspective processes little fear of venturing out and experimenting. For me there is a great deal to be learned thru both success and failure. It's the annual journey of front office and coaching staff and players that are most interesting and instructive ..... not the season ending accolades.

Pete Carroll's handling of offensive and defensive lines as a reflection of his sense of position priority. Many fans express a poor understanding and appreciation of Pete's priorities. For me, the annual turn over of linemen keeps things interesting and open for player development. The eye of most fans is drawn away from watching line play. Understandably, most don't understand what is very low on their game day priorities. So focused on a celebrated skill players, other discussions are constantly bombarded with repetitive off topic diversions such as thank goodness for this or that marquee player. The Russell Wilson hijack is is among the most popular killer of thread topics. Pre-existing Russell Wilson threads are constantly on page one. And yet, hijacks continue ..... It's ridiculous.

There are times when the forum takes on the back and forth feel of something akin to a tennis forum rather than a team oriented football forum ...... lacking appreciation for what makes up of team and team work. Perhaps if a moderators became more active about moving and editing or outright deleting off topic posts, the forum could expand the scope of meaningful discussion to include all skill positions and all position coaches.

There may come a time when this forum can sustain a discuss about linemen. That's not the case as things stand today ..... we are all the poorer for it. The state of discussion on this forum could become far more expansive and richer than what we are confined to today.

"My own perspective processes little fear of venturing out and experimenting. " the fear is that while they experiment the odds catch up with us and Wilson get hurt and can't play. 8 years and no oline ranked higher than 20th in pass blocking with an avg rank of 26th. nothing in this should make anyone feel good about any oline in the PC era till they prove otherwise.

Living in fear of Russell getting hurt is your self imposed burden. Why not exercise the courtesy of starting a thread dedicated to your fears for Russell Wilson rather than hijack yet another thread?

Or about you start one about how to put your head in the sand and pretend nothing you don't like exists.

 

[John63]

As I said earlier this is an annual refrain “the OLine will suck”. I don’t get the they are not allowed to be better type thinking. It just seems to be a baseless anti-Carroll refrain. To me if there is blame it should be focused on the need to allocate cap resources away from just spending a larger portion of it on the OLine. Simply I don’t believe it can be demonstrated absolutely that OLine quality play is directly proportionate to the amount of cap spent on the OLine. We have had very highly paid OLines here that were not worth that cap expenditure as far as their performance.

As Jazz has said: “let’s wait and see” before defaulting to this annual “they are terrible” refrain.

Just because PFF doesn’t think players will be much good doesn’t mean that they won’t be improved over what was served up by them last season. Just because the whole line is not staffed by Pro Bowl players doesn’t mean the OLine will collectively suck. To me I’m curious about these additions, along with many of the young players. The added speed at WR and potential improved talent at TE may make it easier for RW to find an open receiver than it was last season, while making opposing D’s respect the run with play action and effective run blocking. After all the O is truly a sum of all it’s parts.

I stand on my above post they will be solid at run blocking and potentially stronger in pass pro. Alternatively just improved would be fine as well.

Again I ask the question: If you have a QB who is brilliant when he is mobile and an OLine that is demonstrably good run blocking, doesn’t the OLine just need to be adequate in pass protection when they are assisted by this brilliant mobile QB?

it is simple after 8 years of crappy pass protection they are now in the, they are bad at pass blocking till they prove other wise and rightfully so. If you review all the new oline people none were ranked high in pass blocking with most ranked very low. However, they are all known run blockers. So we go by what we know right now and that is not good. Every year for 8 years we do this a bunch of you hope and pray they will be good, and rant on rest of us who are more realistic and then when we see they are bad you make excuse. The excuses need to stop. PC does not value pass blocking he values run blocking so again we go into a season were Wilson will have to run for his life. I hope they are good, I hope they can pass block, but until they show it, I will go with what has been proven out year after year and what their grades say they will be bad at pass blocking.

 

[Jville]

As I said earlier this is an annual refrain “the OLine will suck”. I don’t get the they are not allowed to be better type thinking. It just seems to be a baseless anti-Carroll refrain. To me if there is blame it should be focused on the need to allocate cap resources away from just spending a larger portion of it on the OLine. Simply I don’t believe it can be demonstrated absolutely that OLine quality play is directly proportionate to the amount of cap spent on the OLine. We have had very highly paid OLines here that were not worth that cap expenditure as far as their performance.

As Jazz has said: “let’s wait and see” before defaulting to this annual “they are terrible” refrain.

Just because PFF doesn’t think players will be much good doesn’t mean that they won’t be improved over what was served up by them last season. Just because the whole line is not staffed by Pro Bowl players doesn’t mean the OLine will collectively suck. To me I’m curious about these additions, along with many of the young players. The added speed at WR and potential improved talent at TE may make it easier for RW to find an open receiver than it was last season, while making opposing D’s respect the run with play action and effective run blocking. After all the O is truly a sum of all it’s parts.

I stand on my above post they will be solid at run blocking and potentially stronger in pass pro. Alternatively just improved would be fine as well.

Again I ask the question: If you have a QB who is brilliant when he is mobile and an OLine that is demonstrably good run blocking, doesn’t the OLine just need to be adequate in pass protection when they are assisted by this brilliant mobile QB?

it is simple after 8 years of crappy pass protection they are now in the, they are bad at pass blocking till they prove other wise and rightfully so. If you review all the new oline people none were ranked high in pass blocking with most ranked very low. However, they are all known run blockers. So we go by what we know right now and that is not good. Every year for 8 years we do this a bunch of you hope and pray they will be good, and rant on rest of us who are more realistic and then when we see they are bad you make excuse. The excuses need to stop. PC does not value pass blocking he values run blocking so again we go into a season were Wilson will have to run for his life. I hope they are good, I hope they can pass block, but until they show it, I will go with what has been proven out year after year and what their grades say they will be bad at pass blocking.

:177692: This is the year 2020. This thread's topic is about the 2020 offensive line. It's not about grievances accumulated over the years. If you want to go on and on about your disappointments and historical grievances, start a separate thread.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Again I ask the question: If you have a QB who is brilliant when he is mobile and an OLine that is demonstrably good run blocking, doesn’t the OLine just need to be adequate in pass protection when they are assisted by this brilliant mobile QB?

This is a defeatist statement right here. Its basically saying that we know the Oline cant pass protect but who cares since Russ is a mobile QB. Wilson has been running for his life and pulling rabbits out of his hat his entire career so far, but do you think he actually prefers it that way? The answer to that question is no, but it doesnt matter because its evident the FO just doesnt care. The most important player on the franchise and a FO that just doesnt care about him. Its baffling. Moderate to garbage offensive linemen are brought in, signed, released, rotated, and whatnot every single year with this FO and the results are always the same, takes a half of a season to figure out what combination appears to be the least destructive and roll with them while Russ gets killed and runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. Sorry your upset that a bunch of us fans dont share your optimism, but there is absolutely no reason we should.

 

[Own The West]

The last 8 years have been miserable with our 20+ ranked OL.

I especially hate the 7 playoffs appearances and the Superbowl we won.

Oh why can't we be more like Dallas?! :sarcasm_off:

 

[jammerhawk]

Again I ask the question: If you have a QB who is brilliant when he is mobile and an OLine that is demonstrably good run blocking, doesn’t the OLine just need to be adequate in pass protection when they are assisted by this brilliant mobile QB?

This is a defeatist statement right here. Its basically saying that we know the Oline cant pass protect but who cares since Russ is a mobile QB. Wilson has been running for his life and pulling rabbits out of his hat his entire career so far, but do you think he actually prefers it that way? The answer to that question is no, but it doesnt matter because its evident the FO just doesnt care. The most important player on the franchise and a FO that just doesnt care about him. Its baffling. Moderate to garbage offensive linemen are brought in, signed, released, rotated, and whatnot every single year with this FO and the results are always the same, takes a half of a season to figure out what combination appears to be the least destructive and roll with them while Russ gets killed and runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. Sorry your upset that a bunch of us fans dont share your optimism, but there is absolutely no reason we should.

I don't frankly care if you don't share my optimism. I can see positives with the depth being improved. You obviously think differently.

As yet I haven't seen a down played by this season's starting OLIne and am unprepared to believe the OLine sucks.

You say my question above is defeatist, really? I'm not saying what you think i said at all, what i said was how necessary is it for an Oline to elite pass protect when your uber mobile QB frequently seriously extends the play when passing. At some point the job becomes more than most reasonable OLinemen can accomplish. However, if the OLine can mash the DLine run blocking and can be relied upon to move the chains in short yardage situations you gotta think they are better. I'm simply NOT saying that they should be terrible in pass pro at all and should be average or better than average and have the potential to be so.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Oh why can't we be more like Dallas?! :sarcasm_off:

Imagine Russell Wilson behind that line.

 

[pmedic920]

No team can afford ($) to have every facet of the game represented by elite players. Elite may not be the best word but the premise is recognizable.

Some times you just have to use, and are stuck with serviceable players in some positions.

I see the O line like this...
If we had an immobile QB that couldn’t move like Russ, are O line would be much more important.

I think because he (Russ) has the ability to move around effectively, it gives us the opportunity to use serviceable players on the line, this in turn allows us to pay higher quality players in other positions.

Sure it’s worrisome at times that Russ may get hurt but pocket passers with great protection get hurt too.

I’d love to have a top 5 O-line but we’ve been pretty darn successful w/o one.

I just can’t be upset over the O-line, even with the associated frustrations.

 

[Spin Doctor]

What is the point of this thread? You literally just reposted an exchange between me and Jville in the OL '20 thread. It's just a waste of space. There is already a discussion going on about this same topic.

 

[pmedic920]

Maybe the Staff should lock this.

 

[Uncle Si]

What is the point of this thread? You literally just reposted an exchange between me and Jville in the OL '20 thread. It's just a waste of space. There is already a discussion going on about this same topic.

This is a safe place to discuss the organizations history with addressing the OL issue, while letting the 2020 discussion continue with "but 7 years ago"

 

[Jville]

What is the point of this thread? You literally just reposted an exchange between me and Jville in the OL '20 thread. It's just a waste of space. There is already a discussion going on about this same topic.

This split out thread is available to those who want to rehash grievances and narratives that pre-date the 2020 offensive line. The original thread is reserved for focusing on the year 2020 and current offensive line personnel and position coaches. This thread is available for wandering off topic about Wilson or Carroll or history. The separate threads also act as an embedded survey to revel which of the threads proves more popular.

Thanks for asking and appreciate your posts ....... I'm hoping to see more postings of on topic updates about current linemen and training camp reports in the "OL20" thread. ......... we'll see :biggthumpup:

A less structured discussion with historical and personal perspectives are invited to be posted here.

 

[oldhawkfan]

Looking forward to the start of the season to actually see this iteration of the o line before I form an opinion.

 

[John63]

From what I am seeing which is nothing since all we got is PCs cheerleading stuff. outside of Brown we have 4 question marks and we ill not know til the first game.

 

[Nunya]

From what I am seeing which is nothing since all we got is PCs cheerleading stuff. outside of Brown we have 4 question marks and we ill not know til the first game.

Why do WE need to know earlier? I'm sure the coaches are evaluating strengths and weaknesses in camp. They will either fix weaknesses...or they won't. Running around screaming "the sky is falling" really isn't going to change things.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

From what I am seeing which is nothing since all we got is PCs cheerleading stuff. outside of Brown we have 4 question marks and we ill not know til the first game.

The fact that Lewis is competing for a first-string spot is "nothing" to you?

Or Brandon Shell chucking people around like rag dolls?

You're seeing what you want to see.

 

[jammerhawk]

Unless the OLine is staffed by 5 proven All Pro players it sucks? OK, sure thing.

The past is the argument and not the reality of THIS YEAR. They sucked before so they could suck now? Now that's a truly negative viewpoint. Oh, and besides that, the argument is as well I don't like Pete's style so the O will suck too.
It doesn't matter what the changes were they'll be wrong.

In truth we just don't know what this season's OLine will do, and truth is there are on it a few aging but capable guys, some new players, and some hoped to be promising rookies or younger players. I'd want to see them play together before I passed a judgment about their ability.

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is either.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Unless the OLine is staffed by 5 proven All Pro players it sucks? OK, sure thing.

The past is the argument and not the reality of THIS YEAR. They sucked before so they could suck now? Now that's a truly negative viewpoint. Oh, and besides that, the argument is as well I don't like Pete's style so the O will suck too.
It doesn't matter what the changes were they'll be wrong.

In truth we just don't know what this season's OLine will do, and truth is there are on it a few aging but capable guys, some new players, and some hoped to be promising rookies or younger players. I'd want to see them play together before I passed a judgment about their ability.

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is either.

To be more specific, even, the O-Line must be great pass-protectors guarding our most prized possession: RW--or Pete's ignorant of what he has to work with. The FO is wasting multiple SB years with the potentially GOAT QB at the helm by insisting on the rushing game and slow first halves before breaking out the back-breaking long plays.

The offense philosophy must revolve around a dynamic passing game setting up the run, rather than the other way around, and being unpredictable while never "cute" (whatever that means). The O-Line must be built for this type of offense, and since it hasn't been, it's time for new leadership in the FO.

Am I getting it right?

I think we'll have an average line this year overall, and I'll take that. It'll again be graded stronger in the running game, much to the frustration of some fans. Brown may be older, but that doesn't mean his production will automatically decline this year. Lewis could be really good, or not so much. I agree, jammer; just because we all have questions doesn't mean the result is automatically going to be bad, nor good. We'll just wait and see.