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MontanaHawk05

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Really? After all your responses lately about jumping to conclusions and fans posting opinions not based on facts or evidence. You really are on mission to shoot down all these post's that are worried about the offensive line. Whatever fits your agenda.
If he signs a guy with injury history it must be because this that and the other but if he doesn't sign a guy then it was because he wasn't comfortable with his injury history.

It's nice that you have confidence that the new scheme/coaching and maybe the draft will be enough, not everyone does.
Because they haven't been paying attention to the offseason literature that's been coming out, or the tape analysis that was circulating as early as October. Grubb had the line in shotgun the vast majority of the time regardless of down and was doing all kinds of other things to put them and Geno in terrible positions. The recent Lynch/MRob podcast has the guys talking about the total ignorance of NFL fundamentals in Grubb's philosophy.

It's not about a new scheme/coaching, it's talking about there being a NFL-standard one.
 

Wsumatt1982

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Really? After all your responses lately about jumping to conclusions and fans posting opinions not based on facts or evidence. You really are on mission to shoot down all these post's that are worried about the offensive line. Whatever fits your agenda.
If he signs a guy with injury history it must be because this that and the other but if he doesn't sign a guy then it was because he wasn't comfortable with his injury history.

It's nice that you have confidence that the new scheme/coaching and maybe the draft will be enough, not everyone does.
I'm simply making a suggestion based on words that have been said by JS, MM, Seahawks reporters on what he looks for. I'm not throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks like some people around here that have nothing but their own feelings to back them up, just simply stating in this case maybe the "intangibles" he has repeatedly said he looks for MAY have outweighed an injury. Not to mention all their medicals on him checked out. Nice try though.
 

Shane Falco

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Because they haven't been paying attention to the offseason literature that's been coming out, or the tape analysis that was circulating as early as October. Grubb had the line in shotgun the vast majority of the time regardless of down and was doing all kinds of other things to put them and Geno in terrible positions. The recent Lynch/MRob podcast has the guys talking about the total ignorance of NFL fundamentals in Grubb's philosophy.

It's not about a new scheme/coaching, it's talking about there being a NFL-standard one.

My post wasn't about disagreeing with how bad the scheme / coaching was. I know what has been reported and most importantly what we witnessed first hand. I know that Grubb had a big hand in it no question, but not everyone agrees that it will be such a huge jump with better scheme / coaching and young guys continuing to get better. Those things are true but no one can say to what degree it will have an effect. If we jump from nearly the last ranked oline to say something like 22nd for example, that's a pretty good jump but will it be enough? That is my concern.

I believe in Kubiak and Co and some young guys growth but I ALSO believe that the talent level is lacking on the IOL. I also acknowledge we still have the draft but we also know JS and his track record at that position group in the draft. So I still have concerns and I don't think they are without merit.
 

Shane Falco

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I'm simply making a suggestion based on words that have been said by JS, MM, Seahawks reporters on what he looks for. I'm not throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks like some people around here that have nothing but their own feelings to back them up, just simply stating in this case maybe the "intangibles" he has repeatedly said he looks for MAY have outweighed an injury. Not to mention all their medicals on him checked out. Nice try though.

Sure buddy. Have you ever thought about going into politics? I think you could have a stellar career.
 

WestCoastChippewa

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I don't think JS is in the hot seat with the FO. Maybe with the fan base who have bought into the narrative surrounding the OL.
When you pass the ball 80% of the time it's hard for your young OL to play downhill when they're back on their heels pass blocking. Our new OL coach and run game coordinator like the Seahawks young core of OL, I imagine we pick up some OL in the draft as well.
 

MontanaHawk05

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My post wasn't about disagreeing with how bad the scheme / coaching was. I know what has been reported and most importantly what we witnessed first hand. I know that Grubb had a big hand in it no question, but not everyone agrees that it will be such a huge jump with better scheme / coaching and young guys continuing to get better. Those things are true but no one can say to what degree it will have an effect. If we jump from nearly the last ranked oline to say something like 22nd for example, that's a pretty good jump but will it be enough? That is my concern.

I believe in Kubiak and Co and some young guys growth but I ALSO believe that the talent level is lacking on the IOL. I also acknowledge we still have the draft but we also know JS and his track record at that position group in the draft. So I still have concerns and I don't think they are without merit.
Fair enough. But there is the (slowly) growing school of thought OL just needs to be average. Minnesota's was spotty last year, though injury had something to do with that.

Numerous teams have reached or won the big game without sterling offensive lines. The Eli Manning Giants did it twice. We did it in 2013 (ranked 32nd, yes 32nd in adjusted sack rate). The 2009 Cardinals weren't that good at all.

David Carr, the supposed poster boy of QB's ruined by bad OL play, had his sack rate follow him to other teams, while Matt Schaub immediately outperformed him despite no significant additions to the line. Peyton Manning's offensive line dropped off the face of the planet overnight once Curtis Painter succeeded him. That's just off the top of my head.

The trend leans towards better OL -> better performance, but EVERY position leans that way. And when a position has this many outliers in that correlation, it's just not going to look that important anymore. Especially when one can point to specific reasons, like the emergence of passing systems that get the ball out quickly.

Now, where this gets interesting is in regard to Sam Darnold, who has a reputation for being bad under pressure. Kubiak is supposedly a get-the-ball-out-quick guy. That may help. But I've never been impressed with him. And our WR3 is a dropsie guy, while our WR4 and tight ends right now are total JAGs.

Then again, who do you want? Fries was the only healthy guy worth throwing money at, and he didn't want to wait for a physical so signed with another team, and NOBODY in the league other than Minnesota is handing out five-year contracts right now. Nobody else in this FA class was really worth that much money.
 

Fernie Hawks Fan

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My post wasn't about disagreeing with how bad the scheme / coaching was. I know what has been reported and most importantly what we witnessed first hand. I know that Grubb had a big hand in it no question, but not everyone agrees that it will be such a huge jump with better scheme / coaching and young guys continuing to get better. Those things are true but no one can say to what degree it will have an effect. If we jump from nearly the last ranked oline to say something like 22nd for example, that's a pretty good jump but will it be enough? That is my concern.

I believe in Kubiak and Co and some young guys growth but I ALSO believe that the talent level is lacking on the IOL. I also acknowledge we still have the draft but we also know JS and his track record at that position group in the draft. So I still have concerns and I don't think they are without merit.
Honest question Shane...we had 10 wins last year with the shit show we had with the O line and coaching, right? So my question is, in your mind, How many more wins do you think is possible with the new coaching?
 

warden

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A combination of FA, draft and trading are all avenues needed to build or maintain a roster.

If we are talking about the IOL contracts given out so far, imo none of them have been way over the top. Even the 5 years on fries is just a 2 year obligation albeit quite a bit of guaranteed for those 2 years - 7th most guaranteed to a guard currently.
Aaron Banks was overpaid imo but none of these contracts should hurt a franchise.

Here is what the teams are obligated to in years and guaranteed money for the top FA IOL this offseason:

Drew Dalman 2yr / $28M
Will Fries 2yr / $44M
Aaron Banks 1yr / $27M
James Daniels 1yr / $10.7M
Kevin Zeitler 1yr / $8.75M
Mekhi Becton (2yr / $20M total, no details yet)


Daniels, Becton and Zeitler were very good deals imo. I imagine Jenkins will only command a similar deal. OC Dalman was a good deal also.
Sorry John only shops at the dollar store and Goodwill when looking for interior offensive lineman
 

Scout

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Honest question Shane...we had 10 wins last year with the shit show we had with the O line and coaching, right? So my question is, in your mind, How many more wins do you think is possible with the new coaching?
You think the current team can win more than 10 games? That is bold given the other teams in the NFC will improve with the draft too not just the Seahawks.
 

LeveeBreak

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Sorry John only shops at the dollar store and Goodwill when looking for interior offensive lineman
Better than buying old shellfish at Haggen.

I'm not a JS apologist as I think he's valued IOL lower that he should have. I also think OL coaching has been subpar for many years. These things are not mutually exclusive.

The reported offer to Fries showed to me he was willing to pay near top $$ for a player. I'm not convinced any other FA IOL was worth breaking the bank for. Jenkins was the closest, but not worth overpaying. The draft for OL is fairly loaded this year and I expect we see 1-2 picks in the top 100 spent on OL.

The rhetoric by you and others is fun board banter and needed to a degree. No issues there. Will you win the football equivelent of the William Procter Prize, no...but pretty sure your not losing sleep over that.

Cheers.
 

Scout

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I just realized Schneider's problem. He's walking into the dollar store with just a dollar, and doesn't realize they raised their price to $1.25
More like with inflation it is $3.00 dollar store now.

Honestly people saying that WRs are overpaid for $30 mil per year are ignoring that will be considered cheap in a year.
 

jammerhawk

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Seahawks GM knows you, hears you, feels you...​


Right, sure thing, whatever. Add to the above: " ----, --. feels you..., then cons you. Realistically it appears the team was never really IN on any of the OGs brought as FAs. Nothing changes the way it stays the same.

The team still needs interior OLine help and our boy JS is now 0 for four on the FAs the team has looked at. The excuses are many but something isn't computing here.
 

Scout

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Can you imagine a scenario where JS doesn't draft an OG in the first three rounds that would be shocking? That is all I would have to say about that.
 

jammerhawk

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The draft will now be his only chance to actually try to fix this continuing problem.
 

Scout

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The draft will now be his only chance to actually try to fix this continuing problem.
And that is the biggest problem.

To solve this issue this year he would need to invest in a higher pick than he normal does for an interior OL.

Ethan Pocic was the last interior OL drafted in round 2 and that was 2017....
 

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