Seahawks Defense Dead Last Since Week 9

renofox

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KNJ is a competent coach who has the capability to change and adjust over time. Not a barnburner, but a competent coach. He always tightened his defenses up over time, which frustrated us as it was a pattern, but is a hell of a lot better than Clint Hurtt's constant degradation of basic structure.

Clint Hurtt is unwashed asscheeks and he should not have survived 2023.
I think there were 2 problems with KNJ.

He could not carry over his improvements to.the next year. Every year started in the bottom 10%.

His in-season improvements were too slow. Horrific defense for 6-10 games every season is just too many.

If he could have carried improvements from year to year or only had a few games of crap each year, he probably would've kept his job.
 

Ozzy

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Norton was average to below average if rated with his peers. If you want to be average then sure he’s not horrible but isn’t the bar with an all time great coach higher? It should be.
 

evergreen

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It’s the unimprovement each of the last two years that is so striking and alarming. 6-3 both years to sucking balls and hoping for miracles at 9-8. It’s just so mediocre. And so many things happened to make it that way. They all have Pete Carrol’s fingerprints all over them. Rip the bandage off!
 

Weadoption

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part of this as far as the loss to Pittsburgh is you ran into a team that has gotten hot with both those backs the past few games. Pickens lit up Cincy.
i know you heard it all before, but nobody is convincing me that this D couldnt be transformed with a complete LB overhaul thru the draft and FA. draft another OT or thru FA, Lucas is done so you pretty much have to address that somehow. Get Adam’s head right, he could rebound. Keep Little and the pass rush is looking good with Mafe and Nwosu. The pieces are there for that group to dominate a lot of teams in the NFC. I would definitely want JS/PC to build the trenches leading into a team sale and new ownership down the road, could set things up nice.
 

LTH

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KNJ is a competent coach who has the capability to change and adjust over time. Not a barnburner, but a competent coach. He always tightened his defenses up over time, which frustrated us as it was a pattern, but is a hell of a lot better than Clint Hurtt's constant degradation of basic structure.

Clint Hurtt is unwashed asscheeks and he should not have survived 2023.

EDIT: I meant 2022 lol
If I may chime in here.

I think it looks like Clint Hurtt is not doing his job but in actuality the Hawks do not have the players on D to do what the Hawks want to do on D. I do not think it's scheme or the calls Hurt is making.

Using this last game against Pitt, Pitt wasplaying with players that were way more physical than what the Hawks players are.

The Hawks just don't match up with who they had on the we field against the steelers run game. The steelers just over powered the Hawks and it wouldn't have mattered what Hurtt called.

I think the Hawks are missing some key players like Nwosu, Brooks, Adams, Mone. I think most don't like Adams but the truth is he is much better against the run than Love who is some what undersized for a safety that along with Bush and Burns.. I don't think the Hawks are setting the edge very well as well people want to blame it on coaching but i just think they dont have the right players on the field ...that's just my take on it.

The killer part of the game against Pitt was Geno's fumble when he got hit from his blind side and stripped of the ball. To bad that Cross gave up that sack, that was very disappointing especially because the Hawks were able to move the ball against the steelers. It was also disappointing that Walker didn't play most of the 4th quarter not to say that Charbonnet didn't step up in the passing game because he did but I would have liked to see the Hawks run the ball a bit more late but with Walker out that's probably why they didn't.

I think the Hawks are still a draft out from being a contender. Many will dis agree with me.. that's fine people will see it from there own perspective.. that's my perspective.


LTH
 

DarkVictory23

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If I may chime in here.

I think it looks like Clint Hurtt is not doing his job but in actuality the Hawks do not have the players on D to do what the Hawks want to do on D. I do not think it's scheme or the calls Hurt is making.

Using this last game against Pitt, Pitt wasplaying with players that were way more physical than what the Hawks players are.

The Hawks just don't match up with who they had on the we field against the steelers run game. The steelers just over powered the Hawks and it wouldn't have mattered what Hurtt called.

I think the Hawks are missing some key players like Nwosu, Brooks, Adams, Mone. I think most don't like Adams but the truth is he is much better against the run than Love who is some what undersized for a safety that along with Bush and Burns.. I don't think the Hawks are setting the edge very well as well people want to blame it on coaching but i just think they dont have the right players on the field ...that's just my take on it.

The killer part of the game against Pitt was Geno's fumble when he got hit from his blind side and stripped of the ball. To bad that Cross gave up that sack, that was very disappointing especially because the Hawks were able to move the ball against the steelers. It was also disappointing that Walker didn't play most of the 4th quarter not to say that Charbonnet didn't step up in the passing game because he did but I would have liked to see the Hawks run the ball a bit more late but with Walker out that's probably why they didn't.

I think the Hawks are still a draft out from being a contender. Many will dis agree with me.. that's fine people will see it from there own perspective.. that's my perspective.


LTH
I agree, against Pittsburgh, the biggest issue was personnel, not scheme. That doesn't mean the scheme is good though, because it's not. However, do I think we win that game if we were just able to plug Brooks and Nwosu into that game, even with that scheme? Yeah, it was close enough that I think we could.

It's no coincidence that the two nadirs for our defense were against Baltimore and Pittsburgh, who rely on a physical running game because that hurts us both schematically and puts us at a disadvantage personnel-wise.

But our defense has regressed since the moment Hurtt took over, not just last week or against Baltimore. There are fundamental issues with what he has brought to the table. We had key injuries which were supposed to explain why our defense regressed last year as well. I don't think it's realistic to be able to trot that out as an excuse again.
 

Maelstrom787

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If I may chime in here.

I think it looks like Clint Hurtt is not doing his job but in actuality the Hawks do not have the players on D to do what the Hawks want to do on D. I do not think it's scheme or the calls Hurt is making.

Using this last game against Pitt, Pitt wasplaying with players that were way more physical than what the Hawks players are.

The Hawks just don't match up with who they had on the we field against the steelers run game. The steelers just over powered the Hawks and it wouldn't have mattered what Hurtt called.

I think the Hawks are missing some key players like Nwosu, Brooks, Adams, Mone. I think most don't like Adams but the truth is he is much better against the run than Love who is some what undersized for a safety that along with Bush and Burns.. I don't think the Hawks are setting the edge very well as well people want to blame it on coaching but i just think they dont have the right players on the field ...that's just my take on it.

The killer part of the game against Pitt was Geno's fumble when he got hit from his blind side and stripped of the ball. To bad that Cross gave up that sack, that was very disappointing especially because the Hawks were able to move the ball against the steelers. It was also disappointing that Walker didn't play most of the 4th quarter not to say that Charbonnet didn't step up in the passing game because he did but I would have liked to see the Hawks run the ball a bit more late but with Walker out that's probably why they didn't.

I think the Hawks are still a draft out from being a contender. Many will dis agree with me.. that's fine people will see it from there own perspective.. that's my perspective.


LTH
I disagree wholeheartedly that it isn't coaching causing the majority of the more embarrassing defensive issues.

I agree that we don't have a championship-caliber level of overall talent, but the issues we're seeing are down to basic gap control and concept execution. The very bare necessities of playing defense in the NFL. Pittsburgh has a plodding offense without an especially explosive run game, and we were flat out shooting ourselves in the foot on run D. It wasn't that they were simply better than us talent-wise, it was the fact that no one was fitting properly and there was little in the way of gap integrity.

We've been able to stop the run in many prior years without premier line talent, and we should be able to do it again better than we have been. That's on coaching. I don't expect them to beat the world with the guys in the front seven, I just expect them to play within the minimum definition of a cohesive defensive unit.

It's not even scheme or the calls. It's the inability to get this group to play sound football. The defensive coordinator and other defensive positional coaches are the ones who need to implement those details, and it isn't happening. They wouldn't be consistently regressing otherwise.
 

Spin Doctor

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If I may chime in here.

I think it looks like Clint Hurtt is not doing his job but in actuality the Hawks do not have the players on D to do what the Hawks want to do on D. I do not think it's scheme or the calls Hurt is making.

Using this last game against Pitt, Pitt wasplaying with players that were way more physical than what the Hawks players are.

The Hawks just don't match up with who they had on the we field against the steelers run game. The steelers just over powered the Hawks and it wouldn't have mattered what Hurtt called.

I think the Hawks are missing some key players like Nwosu, Brooks, Adams, Mone. I think most don't like Adams but the truth is he is much better against the run than Love who is some what undersized for a safety that along with Bush and Burns.. I don't think the Hawks are setting the edge very well as well people want to blame it on coaching but i just think they dont have the right players on the field ...that's just my take on it.

The killer part of the game against Pitt was Geno's fumble when he got hit from his blind side and stripped of the ball. To bad that Cross gave up that sack, that was very disappointing especially because the Hawks were able to move the ball against the steelers. It was also disappointing that Walker didn't play most of the 4th quarter not to say that Charbonnet didn't step up in the passing game because he did but I would have liked to see the Hawks run the ball a bit more late but with Walker out that's probably why they didn't.

I think the Hawks are still a draft out from being a contender. Many will dis agree with me.. that's fine people will see it from there own perspective.. that's my perspective.


LTH
Let me ask you, what has Hurtt done that made you think he is worth keeping around? Hurtt failed upward. Our defensive lines weren't very good on the Seahawks when he was a D-Line coach. He didn't particularly do well at his other gigs either. We've had two seasons to get the players that fit his scheme. We are running the most tepid, limp ticked version of Fangio's defense that I've seen. The benefit of Fangio's scheme is the ability to mask where pressure is coming from. We're running mostly a nickel scheme that doesn't maintain gap integrity and doesn't do much in the way of deception, we really show our hand at what we're going to do.

The Hawks will NOT be a contender no matter what they do until they can Hurtt. He is a major liability for us, things have not gotten better for us. We're running an undisciplined defense that is without direction. A lot of that falls at Hurtt and Carroll's feet.
 

LTH

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I disagree wholeheartedly that it isn't coaching causing the majority of the more embarrassing defensive issues.

I agree that we don't have a championship-caliber level of overall talent, but the issues we're seeing are down to basic gap control and concept execution. The very bare necessities of playing defense in the NFL. Pittsburgh has a plodding offense without an especially explosive run game, and we were flat out shooting ourselves in the foot on run D. It wasn't that they were simply better than us talent-wise, it was the fact that no one was fitting properly and there was little in the way of gap integrity.

We've been able to stop the run in many prior years without premier line talent, and we should be able to do it again better than we have been. That's on coaching. I don't expect them to beat the world with the guys in the front seven, I just expect them to play within the minimum definition of a cohesive defensive unit.

It's not even scheme or the calls. It's the inability to get this group to play sound football. The defensive coordinator and other defensive positional coaches are the ones who need to implement those details, and it isn't happening. They wouldn't be consistently regressing otherwise.
Maybe I'm wrong I don't know... there were some gap issues in that game but what I saw was Pitt was way more physical and those running backs were running brutally hard and Seattle just didn't have the physicality to stop it. It was way obvious to me .. I think there were different issues for different games but the two constant things I have been seeing is Seattle isn't as physical as they need to be and they are not very good at setting the edge.

Edit: the scheme issue is you bring a safety up to stack the box to stop the run and look what happened you leave Jackson one on one with what's his name? Damn.. I'm old and can't remember his name but their receiver burned Jackson for a big play so it's a trade off chess game especially when they are running those over and under fronts.. feels like they don't have the personal to run the bear front... I don't know but it's frustrating...

LTH
 
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Spin Doctor

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I disagree wholeheartedly that it isn't coaching causing the majority of the more embarrassing defensive issues.

I agree that we don't have a championship-caliber level of overall talent, but the issues we're seeing are down to basic gap control and concept execution. The very bare necessities of playing defense in the NFL. Pittsburgh has a plodding offense without an especially explosive run game, and we were flat out shooting ourselves in the foot on run D. It wasn't that they were simply better than us talent-wise, it was the fact that no one was fitting properly and there was little in the way of gap integrity.

We've been able to stop the run in many prior years without premier line talent, and we should be able to do it again better than we have been. That's on coaching. I don't expect them to beat the world with the guys in the front seven, I just expect them to play within the minimum definition of a cohesive defensive unit.

It's not even scheme or the calls. It's the inability to get this group to play sound football. The defensive coordinator and other defensive positional coaches are the ones who need to implement those details, and it isn't happening. They wouldn't be consistently regressing otherwise.
Gap integrity has been an issue day 1 with Clint Hurtt. The 2022 and 2023 Seahawks are the most undisciplined Hawk's defense that I've seen under Carroll. I don't think it is even a question that Clint Hurtt is a huge issue for us. The fact we only improved one defensive spot since last year despite all of the talent we threw at the defense is unacceptable.
 

Maelstrom787

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Gap integrity has been an issue day 1 with Clint Hurtt. The 2022 and 2023 Seahawks are the most undisciplined Hawk's defense that I've seen under Carroll. I don't think it is even a question that Clint Hurtt is a huge issue for us. The fact we only improved one defensive spot since last year despite all of the talent we threw at the defense is unacceptable.
It's just maddening watching this defensive product. I get the assignment of blame to Carroll for fielding a subpar defensive product despite large expenditure to bolster that personnel, but Hurtt is uniquely bad. KNJ at least had them competently defending the run.

Hurtt is being afforded too much grace by those who default to the blanket "The coordinators are nameless, faceless, thoughtless yes men and Pete is the puppetmaster who is hopelessly tangling us in his shitty marionette work" type of view. That allows an abysmal coordinator to get bailed out when he really should be pilloried here for it. Carroll can receive blame, but we have to call a spade a spade here - the coordinator does still have the responsibility of having these dudes ready to play, and they haven't been for 2 years straight on a bare fundamental level.

He needs to be shitcanned the very second the season ends.
 

LTH

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I agree, against Pittsburgh, the biggest issue was personnel, not scheme. That doesn't mean the scheme is good though, because it's not. However, do I think we win that game if we were just able to plug Brooks and Nwosu into that game, even with that scheme? Yeah, it was close enough that I think we could.

It's no coincidence that the two nadirs for our defense were against Baltimore and Pittsburgh, who rely on a physical running game because that hurts us both schematically and puts us at a disadvantage personnel-wise.

But our defense has regressed since the moment Hurtt took over, not just last week or against Baltimore. There are fundamental issues with what he has brought to the table. We had key injuries which were supposed to explain why our defense regressed last year as well. I don't think it's realistic to be able to trot that out as an excuse again.
I mean I agree with most of what you said... I just think it's a complicated issue that is probably bigger than my understanding...I'm not going to pretend that I know it all.. But I do think they don't have the right players on the field at the same time this year and they are not deep enough to fix it. That in its self makes it very difficult for Hurtt
 

TwistedHusky

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We keep changing DCs. And nothing changes. (Maybe we get worse?)
Starting to think the problem isn't the DCs.
 

LTH

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We keep changing DCs. And nothing changes. (Maybe we get worse?)
Starting to think the problem isn't the DCs.
It's not just one thing...it starts with not having the players to do what they need to do. Some of that is injury, some of that is players like Hall not developed enough to contribute fully... some of it is players like Jones not playing to potential in actuality he is not playing where they signed him to play because of injury to nwosu...plsyers like
Woolen not playing to potential and then over compensating scheme wise to over come personal issues. It's not just one thing. People need someone to blame ... ok I don't know what to say about that... it is what it is for now...But it is frustrating... EVEN for me.

LTH
 

onepicknick1

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At the risk of being accused of putting lipstick on a pig, I have to bring a little bit of fairness to that observation. Our schedule has been backloaded, with teams like the Niners x2, Eagles, and Cowboys appearing in those games, so those numbers are a bit deceiving. But they're still horrible.
I have no ideal why you would throw the Eagles in there. They're on there way out the Cards beat them probably won't make it pass the first round.
 

flv2

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I have no ideal why you would throw the Eagles in there. They're on there way out the Cards beat them probably won't make it pass the first round.
The Eagles have a strong offense. They're #7 in TDs scored. Their problem is a poor defense.
 

RiverDog

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I have no ideal why you would throw the Eagles in there. They're on there way out the Cards beat them probably won't make it pass the first round.
The Eagles were heavily favored to beat us, it was on our home field in Prime Time, and we won in a thrilling, come from behind victory on a virtual walk-off TD pass, breaking a 4 game losing streak.

We followed that up with a road win against the Titans, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense that the team had given up on the season and simply mailed it in vs. the Steelers.
 

onepicknick1

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The Eagles have a strong offense. They're #7 in TDs scored. Their problem is a poor defense.
They'll be one and done in the playoffs. Something happened to them after the 9ners embarrassed them. They definitely hadn't been the same.
 

AubHawk71

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They all get their big buckets of cash either way, so who cares?
 
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