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keasley45

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I think PFF at times can be off. However, often folks get upset at what they think is a low grade (or high grade) because they base their assessment on the 2 or 3 most significant positive or negarive plays a player might make. Sometimes in those plays, the truth about to whom credit goes for success or failure differs from what the eye sees. Absent detailed film study and a deeper knowledge of the playcall and how it was supposed tonbe exexuted, or circumstances which effected the outcome, the grades can seem ... 'off'.

And pff takes into account every play and for linemen (really, all players), doesnt distinguish plays in which they had a significant part from those where, say, a run went to the opposite side of the line from which they play. In other words, you might not ever register the LT getting blown up on 2 or 3 plays that go off the right side for big yards if those plays as a net result were highly successful.

Qb ratings are often unfairly criticized for being obtuse for seemingly not 'passing the eye test'. But the eye test is exactly what pFF is meant to look beyond. If for example, a qb is overall inaccurate on the day, maybe completing better than half of his passes, but forcing miraculous catches By his wrs to be successful, and he has 4 tds on screen passes with zero INTs, the layman might look at that performance and think itvwas great. 4tds, no picks, 60% completion rate and 276 yards passing. But if those TDs came off of screen passes a few yards beyond the LOS that the RB takes to the house for +50 a pop, PFF isnt going to give them the stellar grade one might think they are deserving of. And THAT makes fans upset.
 

SeaWolv

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You think PFF is accurate?
Yes, I think they're close. So do several other posters here and many sports professionals. As close as any rating agency can be.

As of 2021, PFF provides customized data to all 32 NFL teams, 102 NCAA FBS teams, 9 CFL teams, national/regional media (e.g., The Washington Post, The Athletic, ESPN) and sports agencies/agents.

Yes there is a subjective component to it but any rating agency is going to have bias. The scores they provide are directionally correct and can serve as a basis for discussion but are not necessarily definitive.
 

Jville

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True. Can't deny that. I just don't think PFF is some almighty know everything resource.

It isn't. It's just another variation of a news feed subscription. Feeds decide what is relevant and what to believe. It's a lazy bypass to avoid the time consuming tasks of looking at the data and film. Players and coaches and students of the game know this.

Trust your eyes.
 

SeaWolv

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It isn't. It's just another variation of a news feed subscription. Feeds decide what is relevant and what to believe. It's a lazy bypass to avoid the time consuming tasks of looking at the data and film. Players and coaches and students of the game know this.

Trust your eyes.
Uhhh, you did read the quote from above that all 32 NFL teams use PFF right? If it was garbage, as some here suggest, then why is that happening?
 

Appyhawk

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It isn't. It's just another variation of a news feed subscription. Feeds decide what is relevant and what to believe. It's a lazy bypass to avoid the time consuming tasks of looking at the data and film. Players and coaches and students of the game know this.

Trust your eyes.
Monetization has been the ruination of lots more than just one aspect of the National Football League.
 

Jville

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Uhhh, you did read the quote from above that all 32 NFL teams use PFF right? If it was garbage, as some here suggest, then why is that happening?

All 32 teams have their own distinct scouting & grading criteria & regiments. Their goal is to look at the data & film to learn how to improve individual & team performance. Look for match up opportunities & vulnerabilities for upcoming games.

PFF doesn't have an actual franchise team. It's goal is to snag as many paying subscribers as possible to feed it's bottom line.
 

SeaWolv

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All 32 teams have their own distinct scouting & grading criteria & regiments. Their goal is to look at the data & film to learn how to improve individual & team performance. Look for match up opportunities & vulnerabilities for upcoming games.

PFF doesn't have an actual franchise team. It's goal is to snag as many paying subscribers as possible to feed it's bottom line.
Of course they do but they also look at reports from other sources to help improve play. Belichick is on record as saying even when they watch film they're not always sure who made the mistake or what went wrong. It makes sense they would use more than just one source for data.

People like Bobby Slowik, Zac Robinson, Bruce Gradkowski and Gunther Cunningham work at PFF. These are former players and coaches doing the work, not media hacks.

Of course subscriptions are part of their business model but not the only part. The fact that 32 teams use their data on some level tells you it has value.

Dismiss it all you want but clearly there's some merit here otherwise it would have disappeared long ago.
 

Jville

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Of course they do but they also look at reports from other sources to help improve play. Belichick is on record as saying even when they watch film they're not always sure who made the mistake or what went wrong. It makes sense they would use more than just one source for data.

People like Bobby Slowik, Zac Robinson, Bruce Gradkowski and Gunther Cunningham work at PFF. These are former players and coaches doing the work, not media hacks.

Of course subscriptions are part of their business model but not the only part. The fact that 32 teams use their data on some level tells you it has value.

There is a big difference between looking at the actual data details verses buying into individual eye candy presentations. Ranking presentations and charts are not the actual data. They are constructs. And in my opinion, those constructs, though interesting, are far to often misused by PFF subscribers.

We are all free to learn to trust our own eyes and make our own assessment.
 
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DTiempo81

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Bias is impossible to eliminate, so yes I'm sure it's there but I would expect that they incorporate systems that minimize it like news agencies have editors.

How could you possibly know? The whole process is opaque.
 

SeaWolv

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How could you possibly know? The whole process is opaque.

No actually, it's not:

https://www.pff.com/grades#:~:text=THE GRADING SCALE,but those are the basics.

PFF employs over 600 full or part-time analysts, but less than 10% of analysts are trained to the level that they can grade plays. Only the top two to three percent of analysts are on the team of “senior analysts” in charge of finalizing each grade after review. Our graders have been training for months, and sometimes years, in order to learn, understand and show mastery of our process that includes our 300-page training manual and video playbook. We have analysts from all walks of life, including former players, coaches and scouts. We don’t care if you played.
 
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