Russell Wilson sets deadline for new contract

[SoulfishHawk]

You're not supposed to drink the bong water.
ONE bad call and some crappy 4th Quarter defense from being a back to back Super Bowl Champion. They don't make EITHER of those w/out Russ. Or without the D and Running game of course. But, no way in hell they make either one w/out Russ. You are losing it if you actually think 25 guys could have taken this team to the Super Bowl. Dear god.
Not even worth discussing, you flat out refuse to listen to anything but your own opinion.
Can't wait til he signs his new deal, and I hope it grinds at you. But hey, he'll keep winning and you'll keep making excuses for WHY he's winning. Good luck with that :irishdrinkers:

 

[knownone]

Salary Cap hit is all that matters. The rest is irrelevant.

At the end of the day. Russell Wilson has cost less than Tom Brady against the salary cap in total during Wilson's 2nd contract (2015-2019).

The numbers prove that.

15 +7M
16 -4.8M
17 -600K
18 -1.7M
19 +2.7M

Feel free to continue to argue against the math, damage control, and come up with more straw-man arguments if you like. Russell Wilson has been a bargain for years, and you have argued other wise for years... because... because... Tom Brady takes less. Who Wilson technically cost less than against the cap this whole time.

This isn't an isolated comment. You have been arguing this for years. Not anymore.

Your math is wrong.

Wilson - 2015: 32M
Brady - 2015: 13M
= +19M

Over that length of time Wilson has made just under 17M more than Brady.

CAP NUMBER

Russell Wilson 2015 = 7,054,868

Tom Brady 2015 = 14,000,000

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2015/

Ah, I didn't realize you were going solely off cap numbers. Cap hit is a skewed metric because Wilson's '15 season would have paid him under 1M before restructuring, whereas Tom made 14M. In other words, Wilsons contract extension didn't go into effect until 2016. Seattle just spread part of his signing bonus into the final year of his rookie contract to offset the cap hit of the extension.

So if you wanted to compare contract value based on cap hit, you'd have to roll Wilson's prorated signing bonus from 2015 to 2016 and only look at their cap hit from that point forward. Putting Wilson's APY at 22M and Brady's at 18M. That is why when comparing QB value you typically look at cash/length to determine the overall value of a contract.

It's also important to note that OTC doesn't take into account a player missing out on incentives. For instances, Brady's cap hit in 2018 was only 17M because he missed out on his 5M incentive.

Since 2016 - 2019
Wilson - 88M
Brady - 72M

 

[Seymour]

Ah, I didn't realize you were going solely off cap numbers. Cap hit is a skewed metric because Wilson's '15 season would have paid him under 1M before restructuring, whereas Tom made 14M. In other words, Wilsons contract extension didn't go into effect until 2016. Seattle just spread part of his signing bonus into the final year of his rookie contract to offset the cap hit of the extension.

So if you wanted to compare contract value based on cap hit, you'd have to roll Wilson's prorated signing bonus from 2015 to 2016 and only look at their cap hit from that point forward. Putting Wilson's APY at 22M and Brady's at 18M. That is why when comparing QB value you typically look at cash/length to determine the overall value of a contract.

It's also important to note that OTC doesn't take into account a player missing out on incentives. For instances, Brady's cap hit in 2018 was only 17M because he missed out on his 5M incentive.

Since 2016 - 2019
Wilson - 88M
Brady - 72M

Exactly.
Going by cap hit tells little to nothing. It is often a skewed number that absolutely does not represent what the player actually cost the team.

 

[Largent80]

OMG....Wilson is less than Brady...Hahahaha..

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah, who knew? All this time I had no idea that Russ isn't as good as Brady. Oh wait, have always known that :2thumbs:

 

[Chapow]

Lets put some FACTS behind this push of fantasy.

Wilson had the 4th best passer rating 101.4 when NOT using play action, rebuking that he needs a run game'

"Russell Wilson ranked third among qualifying QBs in completion percentage above expectation in 2018, and did so averaging passes much farther downfield than Brees/Cousins. Per "

"From a clean pocket, no QB unleashed big-time throws more frequently than Russell Wilson"

" most hit, hurried, sacked and pressured QB"

Winningest Qb through first 7 seasons

2nd best QB rating career

1 of 2 with lifetime Qb rating over 100

Only player to make up over 80% of offensive yards and over 95% of offensive TDs

Most 4th qtr, OT come from behind victories since 2012

top 10 in YPA, TDs, Qb rating, td/int ratio, td per attempt,

2018 pass blocking ranking 30th.

We see the run game thing but they always leave out he is accounting for 20-25% or more of the rushing yards. He was the leading rusher 1 year as well.

There is much much more as well.

If a defense is loaded up to stop the run, the passing game will flourish, playaction or not. Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. If the defense is loaded up to stop the run it should make it easier for the passing game to flourish, but it is not a given that the passing game will flourish. That's a pretty important distinction. Also, the defense hasn't been loaded up to stop the run every snap of Russell's career and when they have been, part of the reason is because of the threat to run that Russell himself poses. He has had a lot of success against defenses playing the pass as well, in both the running game and the passing game.

Best roster for first seven seasons of any QB.

This is nothing more than your biased and subjective opinion. They had a very, very good roster (mostly on the defensive side of the ball) for 4-5 years, but best ever for 7 years is quite the extraordinary claim. If you'd like to come anywhere close to proving it, you've got a lot a research to do. Otherwise your clearly heavily biased opinion means just as much as anyone else's, not much.

Inflated passer rating due to butt pucker and refusal to take chances.

This is nothing more than your biased and subjective opinion and it flies directly in the face of things like this, "Russell Wilson ranked third among qualifying QBs in completion percentage above expectation in 2018, and did so averaging passes much farther downfield than Brees/Cousins".

If you have the most 4th quarter comebacks, doesn't that mean you are usually behind?

The list of most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is filled with names like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, John Elway, Dan Marino, Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, and Fran Tarkenton. But I guess all those guys only have so many because they were usually behind?

He's accounting for 20-25% of the rushing yards. Some fact! LOL

At least he posted a bunch of facts and stats. You responded with nothing but heavily biased opinions, most of which are either factually incorrect, extraordinary, nonsensical based on actual facts, or some combination of the three.

By the way, we're all still waiting on that list of the 25 quarterbacks in the league that would have won us one ring over the past seven years. Or do you just like throwing sensational claims around but can't/won't back them up?

 

[chris98251]

Best roster for 7 years, hmm how many of those were offensive lineman and WR's and TE's. That is the side of the ball Russell plays on or am I mistaken?

I recall that we were good at the run yes, but our O line still ranked at the bottom or near it almost the whole time that Cable and Bevell were here.

 

[John63]

Best roster for 7 years, hmm how many of those were offensive lineman and WR's and TE's. That is the side of the ball Russell plays on or am I mistaken?

I recall that we were good at the run yes, but our O line still ranked at the bottom or near it almost the whole time that Cable and Bevell were here.

our oline ranking in pass blocking, since Wilson has been on the team:


2012 20th
2013 32nd
2014 24th
2015 30th
2016 25th
2017 25th
2018 30th

Hmm so Wilson has had such great help and yet his oline pass blocking was never higher than 20th. So for his 7 years, his avg oline pass blocking was 27th and yet he has performed top 5, talk about doing a lot with little.


Now our great run game lets look at that for a minute (when I subtracted Wilson yards I also removed all QB rush yards from all teams. * mean made the playoffs

2012 ranked 3rd without Wilsons yards ranked 15th *
2013 ranked 4th without Wilsons yards ranked 12th *
2014 ranked 1st without Wilson 6th *
2015 ranked 3rd without Wilson 9th *
2016 ranked 25th without Wilson 32nd *
2017 ranked 23rd without Wilson ranked 32nd
2018 ranked 1st without Wilson ranked 3rd and guess who was ranked 5th the Pats I guess Brady needed that run game too. *

Mic Drop!

 

[scutterhawk]

Best roster for 7 years, hmm how many of those were offensive lineman and WR's and TE's. That is the side of the ball Russell plays on or am I mistaken?

I recall that we were good at the run yes, but our O line still ranked at the bottom or near it almost the whole time that Cable and Bevell were here.

our oline ranking in pass blocking, since Wilson has been on the team:


2012 20th
2013 32nd
2014 24th
2015 30th
2016 25th
2017 25th
2018 30th

Hmm so Wilson has had such great help and yet his oline pass blocking was never higher than 20th. So for his 7 years, his avg oline pass blocking was 27th and yet he has performed top 5, talk about doing a lot with little.


Now our great run game lets look at that for a minute (when I subtracted Wilson yards I also removed all QB rush yards from all teams. * mean made the playoffs

2012 ranked 3rd without Wilsons yards ranked 15th *
2013 ranked 4th without Wilsons yards ranked 12th *
2014 ranked 1st without Wilson 6th *
2015 ranked 3rd without Wilson 9th *
2016 ranked 25th without Wilson 32nd *
2017 ranked 23rd without Wilson ranked 32nd
2018 ranked 1st without Wilson ranked 3rd and guess who was ranked 5th the Pats I guess Brady needed that run game too. *

Mic Drop!

:229031_cheers: PAY THE MAN!!!!

 

[Fade]

Exactly.
Going by cap hit tells little to nothing. It is often a skewed number that absolutely does not represent what the player actually cost the team.

at both you & knownone.

Russell Wilson made more money, but counted less against the cap.

Cap hit is all that matters when it comes to cap space to build the team around him.

The argument by some around here has been RW's big cap hits are just too much to build a team around him. He needs to take less, and be like Brady.

But the funny thing is he has! (avg) over 5 years.

2015-2019. FACT.

The numbers don't lie.

A new argument must be presented. Because this one is dead.

 

[knownone]

Exactly.
Going by cap hit tells little to nothing. It is often a skewed number that absolutely does not represent what the player actually cost the team.

at both you & knownone.

Russell Wilson made more money, but counted less against the cap.

Cap hit is all that matters when it comes to cap space to build the team around him.

The argument by some around here has been RW's big cap hits are just too much to build a team around him. He needs to take less, and be like Brady.

But the funny thing is he has! (avg) over 5 years.

2015-2019. FACT.

The numbers don't lie.

A new argument must be presented. Because this one is dead.

The argument is not that Russell has not been a value from a cap perspective, the argument is that the perceived value of his previous contract has absolutely no baring on the long-term value of his next contract. As I explained, the value of Wilson's 2015 contract is dependent on his rookie contract. The APY of his previous contract extension is 22M spread that into his rookie deal that number goes down to 17.5M.

Now, the final year of Wilson's rookie contract paid him 1M whereas the final year of this contract pays him 25M. Does this make sense? If Russell get's a similar contract this time around relative to other elite QBs, Wilson will be nowhere close to the value he is now because you have no way of mitigating his initial cap hit.

That is the point you seem to be missing.

 

[John63]

Exactly.
Going by cap hit tells little to nothing. It is often a skewed number that absolutely does not represent what the player actually cost the team.

at both you & knownone.

Russell Wilson made more money, but counted less against the cap.

Cap hit is all that matters when it comes to cap space to build the team around him.

The argument by some around here has been RW's big cap hits are just too much to build a team around him. He needs to take less, and be like Brady.

But the funny thing is he has! (avg) over 5 years.

2015-2019. FACT.

The numbers don't lie.

A new argument must be presented. Because this one is dead.

The argument is not that Russell has not been a value from a cap perspective, the argument is that the perceived value of his previous contract has absolutely no baring on the long-term value of his next contract. As I explained, the value of Wilson's 2015 contract is dependent on his rookie contract. The APY of his previous contract extension is 22M spread that into his rookie deal that number goes down to 17.5M.

Now, the final year of Wilson's rookie contract paid him 1M whereas the final year of this contract pays him 25M. Does this make sense? If Russell get's a similar contract this time around relative to other elite QBs, Wilson will be nowhere close to the value he is now because you have no way of mitigating his initial cap hit.

That is the point you seem to be missing.

It looks like you are trying really hard to complicate things as much as you can to help you narrative.

Let's make it simple. As of now he counts less against our cap than Brady and 10 other QBs. Whatever we give him in his next contract after 2 years he will again count less against our cap than at least 5-10 others. All the while being able to provide more to our team and offense than those QBs do to theirs. And before you say how do I know let me help you.

Wilson is the only QB in the history of the NFL and only player to account for over 80% of his teams offensive yards and over 95% of his teams offensive TDs. Also, of all the Elite QBs he has done what he has done while playing behind the worse pass blocking oline of any of them and it is not close as I showed earlier. You can make a very very real and fact based argument he is more important to the Hawks than any other QB is to their team.

 

[Scorpion05]

You're not supposed to drink the bong water.
ONE bad call and some crappy 4th Quarter defense from being a back to back Super Bowl Champion. They don't make EITHER of those w/out Russ. Or without the D and Running game of course. But, no way in hell they make either one w/out Russ. You are losing it if you actually think 25 guys could have taken this team to the Super Bowl. Dear god.
Not even worth discussing, you flat out refuse to listen to anything but your own opinion.
Can't wait til he signs his new deal, and I hope it grinds at you. But hey, he'll keep winning and you'll keep making excuses for WHY he's winning. Good luck with that :irishdrinkers:

It really doesn't take much brain power to come to this conclusion. There have literally been dozens of teams in recent years with a number one defense and/or running game and they HAVE NOT won a Super Bowl.

The first year we went to the Super Bowl, we faced the Saints in the playoffs. The Saints had a top 5 defense, and you can argue that Brees + Payton has a more potent offense. Why didn't Brees, with a great team and a great defense get past a "game manager" and a great defense? Shouldn't Brees have had the advantage?

I can give a million other examples. Why didn't the Jaguars make and win the Super Bowl? Why didn't Baltimore with game manager Lamar Jackson? Why didn't the Bears and Trubisky? Why haven't the Vikings?


I can go on and on, spanning back to 2000, with examples of teams with great defenses and running games that didn't win the Super Bowl. I can deal with different opinions but some people treat these sports debates like a partisan political debate. Unwilling to see things fairly

 

[JGreen79]

The days of giving your quarterback a blank check need to come to an end. Look at all the teams that have recently done so. They ALL missed the playoffs. It is old, outdated, failing logic.

The first team that chooses to not give their franchise QB a blank check will end up being the cautionary tale of why you always give your franchise QB a blank check.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Some really solid posts on here. The truth is pretty obvious :irishdrinkers:

 

[Scorpion05]

The days of giving your quarterback a blank check need to come to an end. Look at all the teams that have recently done so. They ALL missed the playoffs. It is old, outdated, failing logic.

The first team that chooses to not give their franchise QB a blank check will end up being the cautionary tale of why you always give your franchise QB a blank check.

The people who say this never analyze the situation. Stafford, Ryan, Carr...none of those QBs deserve Rodgers, Wilson money.

The teams who are paying all this money for QBs are going to struggle because their QBs aren't that great. Ryan has had superstars on his team, and hasn't won the big one. Same for Stafford, and Carr. Only a handful of QBs deserve that blank check. Wilson is one of them

 

[SoulfishHawk]

This part that was pointed out already says it all. The fact that he has done so much behind absolute garbage for pass protection for most his career is amazing. But glossing over that and acting like he has had a lot to work with? :roll:


So much truth here, thx for posting:
our oline ranking in pass blocking, since Wilson has been on the team:


2012 20th
2013 32nd
2014 24th
2015 30th
2016 25th
2017 25th
2018 30th

 

[Tical21]

Does that take into account the FACT that he holds onto it longer than everyone else? Wonder why he does that. Something to ponder, perhaps.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Go Hawks

 

[chris98251]

Does that take into account the FACT that he holds onto it longer than everyone else? Wonder why he does that. Something to ponder, perhaps.

it also doesn't take in to account he could have a all pro line and HOF WR's RB'S and TE's to throw to with no defense on the field and you would find fault with him.