Robert Turbin to be waived w/ injury designation (update)

[Bigbadhawk]

If a player is waived with an injury settlement, does the team pick up the tab for medical recovery? The league? Seems like a workers comp situation where the employer would have to provide care...

The league pays for it.

The league not the team? You sure? (Just askin' cause I'm not)

For reference here is the CBA agreement https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

Confusing as hell but pretty sure the answer to that is here.

Article 45 Section 7 (page 202 of the pdf)

Section 7. Workers’ Compensation Offset: If a player elects to receive benefits under this Article, it is agreed that for the term of this Agreement fifty percent (50%) of all Injury Protection and Extended Injury Protection benefits are of the same character as, and are the functional equivalent of, a workers’ compensation indemnity benefit, and the Club paying this benefit and/or its insurer shall be entitled to a dollar-for-dollar offset in an amount equal to fifty percent (50%) of the Injury Protection payments, including Injury Protection and Extended Injury Protection grievance settlements and awards, against any state workers’ compensation indemnity award to which the player is or may become entitled to, including, but not limited to, temporary disability, wage loss, impaired earning capacity and permanent disability benefits, provided that there shall be no offset against a workers’ compensation award of any medical coverage. For example, and without limitation, if a player qualifies to receive $200,000 in Injury Protection benefits pursuant to Section 2 and $150,000 in Extended Injury Protection benefits pursuant to Section 5, it is agreed that $100,000 of the Section 2 amount and $75,000 of the Section 5 amount (or $175,000 cumulatively) when paid, shall be the offset under this Section as described in the first sentence of this Section. This offset applies with regard to workers’ compensation claims arising out of any injury with the Club whether such injury is acute or cumulative in nature provided that the injury that is the subject of the player’s Injury Protection payment (and, if applicable, his Extended Injury Protection payment) is the principal basis for the player’s workers’ compensation award. The parties further agree that if, despite the terms of this Section and the parties’ clear intent to treat fifty-percent (50%) of Injury Protection and Extended Injury Protection benefits as a payment of workers’ compensation, a state court or other competent authority nevertheless renders a decision or other determination resulting in an outcome inconsistent with the full coordination of Injury Protection, Extended Injury Protection, and workers’ compensation benefits pursuant to this Section 7, then the Non-Injury Grievance Arbitrator shall have authority to immediately remedy any over-payment that results from said decision.

 

[kearly]

It's my understanding that injury settlements do count against the team's cap number. I read a detailed breakdown of it by a player's agent last year on the interwebs. Just going off memory though.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

I wonder how this would have played out if Turbs had not gotten injured.

My guess is that Fred Jackson would never have entered the picture and we'd have kept Turbin as usual.

As a runner, I have only one complaint about Turbin. He lacked a nose for the endzone. Otherwise he gets crapped on for not being Marshawn Lynch.

That's a fair point, but I don't really hold that against Turbin much because you usually don't depend on 3rd down backs for red zone carries.

I thought that's what a lot of third down backs were for--guys like Mike Alstott and Jerome Bettis. Third down backs that were given the ball on almost every close-yardage, goal-to-go situation, because they could stuff it in from the one.

 

[kearly]

I thought that's what a lot of third down backs were for--guys like Mike Alstott and Jerome Bettis. Third down backs that were given the ball on almost every close-yardage, goal-to-go situation, because they could stuff it in from the one.

Bettis was a starter and Alstott was a fullback- I think what your are thinking of is a short yardage specialist. TJ Duckett was one of those guys.

The term "third down back" refers to a specific skillset at RB, usually a guy who enters the game on 3rd and medium or 3rd and long. They tend to be plus receivers and plus blockers, but not good enough as runners to be a bell cow back. It is uncommon for these types of backs to rack up rushing TDs.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

I thought that's what a lot of third down backs were for--guys like Mike Alstott and Jerome Bettis. Third down backs that were given the ball on almost every close-yardage, goal-to-go situation, because they could stuff it in from the one.

Bettis was a starter and Alstott was a fullback- I think what your are thinking of is a short yardage specialist. TJ Duckett was one of those guys.

The term "third down back" refers to a specific skillset at RB, usually a guy who enters the game on 3rd and medium or 3rd and long. They tend to be plus receivers and plus blockers, but not good enough as runners to be a bell cow back.

Well, I was kind of referring to both toward the end of their careers; both played that role then, especially Bettis. You're right about Alstott--forgot he was FB.

 

[c_hawkbob]

If a player is waived with an injury settlement, does the team pick up the tab for medical recovery? The league? Seems like a workers comp situation where the employer would have to provide care...

The league pays for it.

The league not the team? You sure? (Just askin' cause I'm not)

For reference here is the CBA agreement https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

Confusing as hell but pretty sure the answer to that is here.

Article 45 Section 7 (page 202 of the pdf)

Section 7. Workers’ Compensation Offset: If a player elects to receive benefits under this Article, it is agreed that for the term of this Agreement fifty percent (50%) of all Injury Protection and Extended Injury Protection benefits are of the same character as, and are the functional equivalent of, a workers’ compensation indemnity benefit, and the Club paying this benefit and/or its insurer shall be entitled to a dollar-for-dollar offset in an amount equal to fifty percent (50%) of the Injury Protection payments, including Injury Protection and Extended Injury Protection grievance settlements and awards, against any state workers’ compensation indemnity award to which the player is or may become entitled to, including, but not limited to, temporary disability, wage loss, impaired earning capacity and permanent disability benefits, provided that there shall be no offset against a workers’ compensation award of any medical coverage. For example, and without limitation, if a player qualifies to receive $200,000 in Injury Protection benefits pursuant to Section 2 and $150,000 in Extended Injury Protection benefits pursuant to Section 5, it is agreed that $100,000 of the Section 2 amount and $75,000 of the Section 5 amount (or $175,000 cumulatively) when paid, shall be the offset under this Section as described in the first sentence of this Section. This offset applies with regard to workers’ compensation claims arising out of any injury with the Club whether such injury is acute or cumulative in nature provided that the injury that is the subject of the player’s Injury Protection payment (and, if applicable, his Extended Injury Protection payment) is the principal basis for the player’s workers’ compensation award. The parties further agree that if, despite the terms of this Section and the parties’ clear intent to treat fifty-percent (50%) of Injury Protection and Extended Injury Protection benefits as a payment of workers’ compensation, a state court or other competent authority nevertheless renders a decision or other determination resulting in an outcome inconsistent with the full coordination of Injury Protection, Extended Injury Protection, and workers’ compensation benefits pursuant to this Section 7, then the Non-Injury Grievance Arbitrator shall have authority to immediately remedy any over-payment that results from said decision.

I don't speak legaleze well enough to completely understand that.

 

[HawkFan72]

Hawks ended up putting him on IR instead of waiving him.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Hawks ended up putting him on IR instead of waiving him.

So he'll be available again next year? Probably Freddy's last year, so the timing is right.

 

[HawkFan72]

Hawks ended up putting him on IR instead of waiving him.

So he'll be available again next year? Probably Freddy's last year, so the timing is right.

Turbin will be a free agent too.

 

[MORGULON]

Good Seahawk. Bummed he is leaving.

Not as bad as many posters around here think. He was productive behind an oline that gets dissed constantly with claims that its only Lynch's hard running that gets him his yards and Wilson's escape-ability that keeps him upright.

Yep, I would of rather C Michael had gotten dusted.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Hawks ended up putting him on IR instead of waiving him.

So he'll be available again next year? Probably Freddy's last year, so the timing is right.

Turbin will be a free agent too.

Can't imagine the pricetag would be too high on re-signing him coming off of IR, since he really hasn't done a whole lot in the league yet.

 

[kearly]

As stated above, the Seahawks have reversed course and have now placed Turbin outright on IR. So says PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -seahawks/

This is bad news if you wanted to see Turbin back later this year without using the one IR designation to return (or wanted to see the Seahawks save some cap space). But it's good news if you want to see Seattle get a comp pick for Turbin next year if he leaves in FA or if you want Turbin to be 'protected' from signing with other teams this season.

 

[DavidSeven]

As stated above, the Seahawks have reversed course and have now placed Turbin outright on IR.

Now, that's interesting. Only reason to do that is to assure they retain his rights and were spooked that another team would claim him. I can only imagine Turbin being comfortable with this if they plan to use the Designation to Return on him or have a "handshake" agreement for a new deal in 2016 (or maybe they can still reach an injury settlement later?). Bottom line though, they like him and it seems they want to keep him around for one reason or the other.

 

[c_hawkbob]

As stated above, the Seahawks have reversed course and have now placed Turbin outright on IR. So says PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -seahawks/

This is bad news if you wanted to see Turbin back later this year without using the one IR designation to return (or wanted to see the Seahawks save some cap space). But it's good news if you want to see Seattle get a comp pick for Turbin next year if he leaves in FA or if you want Turbin to be 'protected' from signing with other teams this season.

There is no reversal of course, this is the expected course. He was waived with an injury designation. That was always going to lead to him being placed on IR if he wasn't claimed off waivers.

 

[Hawkstorian]

He wasn't waived. On the cut to 53 there's no procedural waivers before going to IR. He could, however, still receiver an injury settlement. This is what happened with Lemuel Jeanpierre lsat year.

 

[Atradees]

I like Turbine I just think the seahawks have always had great running backs.

 

[crosfam]

What are the odds Turbin cold come back in 2016 on a prove it one year deal? With the IR, he might not be as attractive FA to other teams as he would have been otherwise. Might be a good one to pair with a draft pick and/or Rawls next year, if needed.

 

[hawknation2015]

What are the odds Turbin cold come back in 2016 on a prove it one year deal? With the IR, he might not be as attractive FA to other teams as he would have been otherwise. Might be a good one to pair with a draft pick and/or Rawls next year, if needed.

I think there's a pretty good chance this happens. Turbin's inability to break tackles is not going to appeal to a lot of teams. At the same time, his blocking, speed, and hands are solid. It's hard to say.

 

[kearly]

There is no reversal of course, this is the expected course. He was waived with an injury designation. That was always going to lead to him being placed on IR if he wasn't claimed off waivers.

That's probably correct (my assumption is that IR was an option but not necessarily automatic had he cleared waivers, that's why injury settlements exist). Though the team did make a reversal of a different kind.

By waiving Turbin on Friday, they exposed Turbin to waivers* (per PFT). Had they waited until Saturday, they could have IR'd him as part of the 53 man roster and protected him from the waiver wire (at the cost of paying his full 2015 salary). Hence PFT commenting that the Seahawks "decided not to risk it."

*(If Turbin would have been claimed on waivers, it would have provided Seattle considerable cash savings because they would have been off the hook for his 2015 salary. So by releasing him on Friday, it was done because they WANTED him to get claimed to save the team money.)

That's where the team ended up reversing course. On Saturday they decided to pull him off waivers and stash him on the '53' before IR'ing him as a guy who 'made the team.' Thus protecting him from waiver claims, but also eating his salary for the season.

 

[kearly]

What are the odds Turbin cold come back in 2016 on a prove it one year deal? With the IR, he might not be as attractive FA to other teams as he would have been otherwise. Might be a good one to pair with a draft pick and/or Rawls next year, if needed.

I'd say really high odds. I just don't see him getting any action in FA and our coaches have a soft spot for him.

That said, it should be crystal clear that Turbin is never going to be our #1 back. When he comes back next year he'll probably be battling Rawls of the #3 RB job. Next year's #2 RB will probably be a high draft pick or a big name vet.