Ringer article on Seahawks Offense

HagFaithful

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"they truly believe this team can compete for a playoff spot with Smith and/or Lock manning the most important spot on the roster. And as naive as it may sound, I’m not sure it’s totally unrealistic."

If our division wasn't so heavy, I'd concur. Alas, our division is heavy...so no playoffs for us. We won't be an easy out, though.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Carroll staying and Russ moving on was the right choice

Not sure this is true, we shall see.

But investing another 250M fully guaranteed into an aging and now starting to suffer injuries Russell Wilson? I did agree with that, and most of the article.

While I do think Russ has some good years left of being a top 10 QB, the way he plays isn't going to get better, it'll get worse.
 

TwistedHusky

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The objective in keeping Wilson would be that as long as you have a star QB, you can attract the better coaches (see GB).

You get another 3-4 years of winning, a little cap hell later, but have a solid HC and can potentially have built a strong team since then (again see GB).

The objective in keeping Carroll is the same as those people that would go see an aging Motley Crue at the Emerald Queen Casino. There was a fat, wheezing, potentially balding Vince Young falling in and out of key - cracking notes here and there. Nobody came to listen to them for that. Nobody cares that the band kinda sucked in those later years and that Vince could barely sing.

They came to remember what Motley Crue sounded like, and in turn, remember how fun it was to go to those concerts back when that band was good and relevant.

It is a nostalgia tour.

Same thing.

People will go to enjoy the nostalgia and remember when the team was strong and competitive. But all Carroll does is feed the memories train and keep us bobbing at .500. It isn't as if there is a future there or any kind of chance we are a playoff team.
 

sdog1981

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The objective in keeping Wilson would be that as long as you have a star QB, you can attract the better coaches (see GB).

You get another 3-4 years of winning, a little cap hell later, but have a solid HC and can potentially have built a strong team since then (again see GB).

The objective in keeping Carroll is the same as those people that would go see an aging Motley Crue at the Emerald Queen Casino. There was a fat, wheezing, potentially balding Vince Young falling in and out of key - cracking notes here and there. Nobody came to listen to them for that. Nobody cares that the band kinda sucked in those later years and that Vince could barely sing.

They came to remember what Motley Crue sounded like, and in turn, remember how fun it was to go to those concerts back when that band was good and relevant.

It is a nostalgia tour.

Same thing.

People will go to enjoy the nostalgia and remember when the team was strong and competitive. But all Carroll does is feed the memories train and keep us bobbing at .500. It isn't as if there is a future there or any kind of chance we are a playoff team.
Are talking about the Seahawks or your feelings of lost youth?
 

Sgt. Largent

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The objective in keeping Wilson would be that as long as you have a star QB, you can attract the better coaches (see GB).

Brandon Staley
Sean McVay
Kyle Shanahan
Sean McDermott
Kevin Stefanksi
Zac Taylor
Kliff Kingsbury

None had their "star QB" in place before they were hired. In fact, I'd say that's part of why the hot young coaches go to teams at the beginning of rebuilds, so they can draft or acquire their QB, and not inherit one that doesn't fit how they want to play offense.
 

scutterhawk

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Are talking about the Seahawks or your feelings of lost youth?
LOLOL Of course it's all about HIS "feelings of lost youth"....& too, Jody Allen probably hates Motely Crue, and decided to keep the Head Coach that UNDERSTANDS that there's 52 other players on the team.
After all is said & done, Jody made the RIGHT CHOICE.
Like I've already said, I wish Wilson no ill will.
To coin a recent silly phrase: (only the names are changed to protect the innocent), Pete Carroll is living "Rent Free" in some of y'all's heads LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sorry, it's just the asp-hole CHILD in me comin' out to play.
 

TwistedHusky

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Well Motley Crue sucked.

But I have to imagine that is the only reason someone would go watch them now.

Not worried about my lost youth. It is our rapidly aging, increasingly losing effectiveness and barely competent HC that I am worried about.

It is bad enough to have an average or below average QB. But to have a barely there HC where he cannot even do the things anymore he used to be good at and still struggles with the things he was never good at?

Not a great sign for the future.

So the only reason to even keep him is to remember when he was capable and competent.

On the bright side, going to games is going to be so much easier. If you ever wanted to see a star on the other team live - and never had good enough seats? It will be so much easier to get better seats, better parking, etc.
 

scutterhawk

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Well Motley Crue sucked.

But I have to imagine that is the only reason someone would go watch them now.

Not worried about my lost youth. It is our rapidly aging, increasingly losing effectiveness and barely competent HC that I am worried about.

It is bad enough to have an average or below average QB. But to have a barely there HC where he cannot even do the things anymore he used to be good at and still struggles with the things he was never good at?

Not a great sign for the future.

So the only reason to even keep him is to remember when he was capable and competent.

On the bright side, going to games is going to be so much easier. If you ever wanted to see a star on the other team live - and never had good enough seats? It will be so much easier to get better seats, better parking, etc.
Again, You are Kidding Yourself.
First it was Wilson who was supposedly "Living Rent Free" in the Minds of folks around here, Not any longer, Pete Carroll has ALSO taken up residence RENT FREE in the minds of his detractors.
As for RW not scoring in the first half of games, that IS on Russ.
Lot's of 3 & outs, they were NOT in the game plans, & most certainly NOT ON PERPOSE.
No matter WHO Pete brought in as OC, the game ALWAYS reverted to RW's way, or no way at all.
In retrospect, Pete already KNEW that Russell Wilson had ALREADY QUIT on the TEAM Seahawks brand, so In the final few games in 2021, Penny's success @ running was a big FU to ALWAYS doing it Wilsons way.
 

TwistedHusky

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I guess.

I have zero confidence in Pete.

There is nothing left to save, though, so if he does OK, good on him. I just consider him devoid of any value or worth as a football coach unless you are playing below .500 teams.

He is good at making a team look better than it is when it is crappy and worse than it is when it is good. So being crappy now, I suppose that is a positive.

But it isn't like he likely will do or accomplish anything beyond slightly above .500 records anymore.

So why bother?

You are right that Wilson probably wanted a bigger stage, and if the separation was in the preparation - the distractions were impacting his prep...and thus his results. There was still probably more future with a checked-out Wilson than a barely competent Carroll.

We will see. But I'm better we will see a lot of great excuses from Carroll's supporters instead of any more actual accomplishments from Carroll anymore.
 

keasley45

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Again, You are Kidding Yourself.
First it was Wilson who was supposedly "Living Rent Free" in the Minds of folks around here, Not any longer, Pete Carroll has ALSO taken up residence RENT FREE in the minds of his detractors.
As for RW not scoring in the first half of games, that IS on Russ.
Lot's of 3 & outs, they were NOT in the game plans, & most certainly NOT ON PERPOSE.
No matter WHO Pete brought in as OC, the game ALWAYS reverted to RW's way, or no way at all.
In retrospect, Pete already KNEW that Russell Wilson had ALREADY QUIT on the TEAM Seahawks brand, so In the final few games in 2021, Penny's success @ running was a big FU to ALWAYS doing it Wilsons way.
Yup. The first half is when we would try to execute the designed gameplan based on what Wilson was comfortable with. Bubble screens. Read options. Quick, one read slants, and play action passes. We'd lean run heavy at times to loosen up the defense to hit long passes and open up routes that Wilson liked that they'd clamp down on. Remember how we'd never use J Graham? Well where was Jimmy running his routes? Jimmy was underutilized in part because Russ needed time to process and so was held back to block, AND because in our offense, unlike in NO where he'd line up outside quite a bit, he was pushing the middle of the field. Granted, we had a string of bad lines after our SB runs that also necessitated the extra blocker, but Russ has never been one to make a defense pay with his anticipation and ability to diagnose and get the ball out.

But throughout his career, our passing offense under #3 wasn't great on 3rd down. SO, as the game progressed and we couldn't run enough to open up a Wilson's passing, contests would turn into conservative slugfests, by process of elimination. Wilson couldn't throw us into first downs consistently, so we'd lean on the run and defense, and invariably, Beastmode would break things open enough that the over the top PA would net results, or when he ran more by design layer in games, we'd start to make a run and either come back from a small deficit, or pull ahead.

Either the above, OR, Russ would just rely on his legs to make defenses play us the way he needed to get the passing plays he wanted, either in the flow of a design, or more often, improvising. But the improv act and intentionally running with #3 wouldn't happen until it HAD to, later in games. In quarters 1,2 and 3, it was trying to execute the offense. This pattern is what I think spawned the belief that it was Pete who was playing the games close until he and the OC decided it was time to just let Russ be Russ and make up the game plan with uptempo calls, chunk runs, and his tendency to do the spectacular.

Russ just legitimately struggled to run a designed offense. He ran the plays he liked and spurned the rest, preferring to make up his own results.

FF to 2019 and his desire to put the game on his legs or the legs of a running back had waned. Russ drank his own kool-aid and was determined that he didn't need the rush game to work or an offense to bail him out. So the RPO all but disappeared. We flourished for a bit just letting Russ improvise more early in games and he was always good at the PA. So good at both that we would be in talks for MVP. But his not running and then also losing a step reduced his bag of tricks to PA and a less potent improv game without a willingness to rely on the run. But he didn't care. And so 2020 and 2021 made it plain who he is when he refuses to stray from his own script or work within a run first offense.

The solution in his mind to compensate for his inability to make the quick presnap adjustment or post snap read - get a good enough o line that he can stand 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage and wait for his guys to come 2 yards open.

Can Denver provide him that? Maybe. But I don't think it's gonna happen, Cap'n. He's extraordinarily talented and incredibly limited, guven the success he's had. But that in large part is a result of the teams that were built around him that didn't ask him to do anything but what he was good at, and his own ridiculous accuracy, and tendency to not throw risky balls.

It's gonna be a fun season to watch.
 

TwistedHusky

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It will be hilarious. I agree.

Cannot wait to hear the crazy excuses.
 

nanomoz

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There is nothing left to save, though, so if he does OK, good on him. I just consider him devoid of any value or worth as a football coach unless you are playing below .500 teams.

He is good at making a team look better than it is when it is crappy and worse than it is when it is good. So being crappy now, I suppose that is a positive.

But it isn't like he likely will do or accomplish anything beyond slightly above .500 records anymore.

So why bother?

Dude, I was like nodding vigorously and audibly said aloud, "yup, there it is" when I read this post. (It was like the scene in Office Space with the two Bobs [you probably don't know what i'm taking about]).
 

hoxrox

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In light of what we know post draft, there's no argument I can agree with that keeping RW would have been better for the future of this franchise. And not just from a financial standpoint.

This team would have been stuck in mediocrity - a middling team that could not advance deep into the playoffs, while being unable to properly build a foundation with its limited draft capital / late round draft picks.

I'd rather be a team that sucks for a year or two with potential for contender status by year three, than a team stuck in pretender mode for years to come. Keeping RW would have been the ultimate pretender move. Win just enough games against regular season opponents, but lose against playoff level competition.

RW's last playoff stat? 11/27 passing. 2/14 on 3rd downs. That's not good enough.

"But, but the play calling was bad!"

There were plenty of open receivers that game. The film don't lie.

Now this team can move forward.
 

keasley45

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In light of what we know post draft, there's no argument I can agree with that keeping RW would have been better for the future of this franchise. And not just from a financial standpoint.

This team would have been stuck in mediocrity - a middling team that could not advance deep into the playoffs, while being unable to properly build a foundation with its limited draft capital / late round draft picks.

I'd rather be a team that sucks for a year or two with potential for contender status by year three, than a team stuck in pretender mode for years to come. Keeping RW would have been the ultimate pretender move. Win just enough games against regular season opponents, but lose against playoff level competition.

RW's last playoff stat? 11/27 passing. 2/14 on 3rd downs. That's not good enough.

"But, but the play calling was bad!"

There were plenty of open receivers that game. The film don't lie.

Now this team can move forward.
Gospel!
 

Throwdown

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No translation he is gone why talk about him

He’s polarizing figure in Seattle sports lore, and people want to talk about why it didn’t fit. Simply saying it’s Pete fault or Russ’ fault is amateur and simplistic at best.
 
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