Rewatching SF vs GB

[Laloosh]

Green Bay got a lot of yards after first contact. A lot of receivers wide open or SF secondary missing tackles. Kaepernick is getting so many wide open looks.

 

[RolandDeschain]

A couple of non-mouth-breathing 49ers fans in their Seahawks pre-game thread mentioned needing to tackle better if they want to win this Sunday. I agree.

 

[mretrade]

I saw Nnandi and Carlos Rogers miss a few. It was mostly defense backs who were missing tackles. I expect the 49ers to go back to play more of their base 3-4 look in this game, unless Seattle chooses to spread them out going 3-4 wide like GB does.

 

[QuickLightning]

SF ran almost entirely in nickle and dime vs Green Bay due to their frequent 3+ WR sets. I would expect our LBs to play a lot more vs Seattle.

 

[Laloosh]

SF ran almost entirely in nickle and dime vs Green Bay due to their frequent 3+ WR sets. I would expect our LBs to play a lot more vs Seattle.

Seattle has pretty good depth at WR. Might not be shocked to see a lot of 3+ WR sets again this week. Especially having watched that performance against GB.

If we can pressure Kaeperdink and not get gashed in the run game I think we win.

The more I watch the Carolina game, the more comfortable I am with our line play and our chances this week. Russel had a good game quietly but kid is not taking what the defense gives him. Instead he's holding the ball and looking for the big play. I'm okay with that sometimes, but he could have avoided some negative "GAP" plays if he'd just gotten the ball out to a back or receiver rather than trying to extend the play.

Also seems like we didn't have a hot route for some of those plays in which Carolina was blitzing (not talking about the delayed corner blitz that resulted in a sack).

Not sure if that's poor recognition on the part of #3 or poor planning by Bevell but I'd like to see the ball coming out a little faster on most plays. Stretch it out when it makes sense but it doesn't have to be on every play that there's pressure.

 

[Marvin49]

Yes, tackling was an issue on sunday. Really hurt them a few times. They are typically a very sure tackling team so it was a bit surprising. Missed tackle by Bowman on Lacy on a catch and run, missed 3rd down tackle by Eric Reid, BAD missed tackle by Nnamdi and another missed tackle by Cox on the Packers second TD.

Now sure if it was something we'll see all year or just a one time thing. We'll have to see. I tend to think it's just a one time thing because tackling has been their hallmark.

As a previous poster mentioned, the 49ers were in Nickel most of the day. Don't expect the same in Seattle. They did that because they didn't respect GB run game. Lacy had 41 yards running against a Nickel D all game long.

As for those "wide open looks", yes. He did. Kinda what I've been saying all off-season. When you have a run game like the 49ers do, teams sell out to stop it. Thats EXACTLY what happened vs Green Bay. Run blitzes, playing a safety close to the line, plaing CBs close to the line, not allowing passrushers to rush past the QB...they were determioned not to let the 49ers run the ball after allowing them to run for over 300 yards in January.

They challenged him to beat them with his arm. He did.

Different story this week. I highly doubt the Seahawks attack Kaep the way the Packers did and that secondary is far better.

Should be fun.

 

[Marvin49]

SF ran almost entirely in nickle and dime vs Green Bay due to their frequent 3+ WR sets. I would expect our LBs to play a lot more vs Seattle.

Seattle has pretty good depth at WR. Might not be shocked to see a lot of 3+ WR sets again this week. Especially having watched that performance against GB.

If we can pressure Kaeperdink and not get gashed in the run game I think we win.

The more I watch the Carolina game, the more comfortable I am with our line play and our chances this week. Russel had a good game quietly but kid is not taking what the defense gives him. Instead he's holding the ball and looking for the big play. I'm okay with that sometimes, but he could have avoided some negative "GAP" plays if he'd just gotten the ball out to a back or receiver rather than trying to extend the play.

Also seems like we didn't have a hot route for some of those plays in which Carolina was blitzing (not talking about the delayed corner blitz that resulted in a sack).

Not sure if that's poor recognition on the part of #3 or poor planning by Bevell but I'd like to see the ball coming out a little faster on most plays. Stretch it out when it makes sense but it doesn't have to be on every play that there's pressure.

I'm really not worried about 3 WR sets from Seattle. PLEASE don't take this as an insult, but I am far less concerned with Wilson as a throw every down passer than Rodgers. Rodgers is capable of doing what he does with no run game to speak of. The guy is just awesome. IMO, the best in the NFL.

Wilson is so effective because of a very strong run game that makes play action absolutely deadly. That is no insult because I can say the exact same thing of Kaep. Wilson is very good....he's just not Rodgers. Yet.

If Seattle abandons the run game and just starts throwing like crazy ala Green Bay, the Niners have already won. That won't happen tho. I expect a steady diet of Lynch/Turbin and alot of play action and deep passes by Wilson.

 

[Sarlacc83]

SF ran almost entirely in nickle and dime vs Green Bay due to their frequent 3+ WR sets. I would expect our LBs to play a lot more vs Seattle.

Seattle has pretty good depth at WR. Might not be shocked to see a lot of 3+ WR sets again this week. Especially having watched that performance against GB.

If we can pressure Kaeperdink and not get gashed in the run game I think we win.

The more I watch the Carolina game, the more comfortable I am with our line play and our chances this week. Russel had a good game quietly but kid is not taking what the defense gives him. Instead he's holding the ball and looking for the big play. I'm okay with that sometimes, but he could have avoided some negative "GAP" plays if he'd just gotten the ball out to a back or receiver rather than trying to extend the play.

Also seems like we didn't have a hot route for some of those plays in which Carolina was blitzing (not talking about the delayed corner blitz that resulted in a sack).

Not sure if that's poor recognition on the part of #3 or poor planning by Bevell but I'd like to see the ball coming out a little faster on most plays. Stretch it out when it makes sense but it doesn't have to be on every play that there's pressure.

I'm really not worried about 3 WR sets from Seattle. PLEASE don't take this as an insult, but I am far less concerned with Wilson as a throw every down passer than Rodgers. Rodgers is capable of doing what he does with no run game to speak of. The guy is just awesome. IMO, the best in the NFL.

Wilson is so effective because of a very strong run game that makes play action absolutely deadly. That is no insult because I can say the exact same thing of Kaep. Wilson is very good....he's just not Rodgers. Yet.

If Seattle abandons the run game and just starts throwing like crazy ala Green Bay, the Niners have already won. That won't happen tho. I expect a steady diet of Lynch/Turbin and alot of play action and deep passes by Wilson.

You should be worried about 3 WR sets, though. Like Carolina, secondary is your weakness, and you can be damn sure the 49ers aren't going to get pressure like Carolina did last week. Nnamdi is no longer a great corner, our receivers will probably get Reid out of position a time or two.

Also, if you'd watched the Seattle game, you'd know that even without a running game, Wilson IS deadly. I think he proved that by throwing for 320 yards while Lynch barely made it past 40.

 

[Marvin49]

Seattle has pretty good depth at WR. Might not be shocked to see a lot of 3+ WR sets again this week. Especially having watched that performance against GB.

If we can pressure Kaeperdink and not get gashed in the run game I think we win.

The more I watch the Carolina game, the more comfortable I am with our line play and our chances this week. Russel had a good game quietly but kid is not taking what the defense gives him. Instead he's holding the ball and looking for the big play. I'm okay with that sometimes, but he could have avoided some negative "GAP" plays if he'd just gotten the ball out to a back or receiver rather than trying to extend the play.

Also seems like we didn't have a hot route for some of those plays in which Carolina was blitzing (not talking about the delayed corner blitz that resulted in a sack).

Not sure if that's poor recognition on the part of #3 or poor planning by Bevell but I'd like to see the ball coming out a little faster on most plays. Stretch it out when it makes sense but it doesn't have to be on every play that there's pressure.

I'm really not worried about 3 WR sets from Seattle. PLEASE don't take this as an insult, but I am far less concerned with Wilson as a throw every down passer than Rodgers. Rodgers is capable of doing what he does with no run game to speak of. The guy is just awesome. IMO, the best in the NFL.

Wilson is so effective because of a very strong run game that makes play action absolutely deadly. That is no insult because I can say the exact same thing of Kaep. Wilson is very good....he's just not Rodgers. Yet.

If Seattle abandons the run game and just starts throwing like crazy ala Green Bay, the Niners have already won. That won't happen tho. I expect a steady diet of Lynch/Turbin and alot of play action and deep passes by Wilson.

You should be worried about 3 WR sets, though. Like Carolina, secondary is your weakness, and you can be damn sure the 49ers aren't going to get pressure like Carolina did last week. Nnamdi is no longer a great corner, our receivers will probably get Reid out of position a time or two.

Also, if you'd watched the Seattle game, you'd know that even without a running game, Wilson IS deadly. I think he proved that by throwing for 320 yards while Lynch barely made it past 40.

WHY was Wilson Deadly tho? Yes, he's very good, but my bet is that Carolina paid ALOT of attention to the run game and that is a big reason why it wasn't all that effective. When those LBs are cheating up it creates lanes behind them. Shutting down the run and opening up the pass are linked. They don't exist in a vacuum.

I'm sure they will use 3 WR sets. No doubt. My point tho is that the 49ers will defend the Seahawks differently because the Seahawks have a run threat and Wilson is less likely to carve up a Nickel D the way Rodgers did.

Again...don't take this as an insult to Wilson. Kaep threw for 412 yards but he wasn't doing so against a Nickel defense. He was doing so vs a D focused on the run.

BTW...just out of curiosity, why can we be so sure the 49ers won't get pressure the way Carolina did? That's kinda what they do. The Packers didn't give up many sacks mainly because they got the ball off so quickly.

I'd also like to add that the 49ers secondary isn't a horrific as people think. Are they Seattle? Not close. They are however probably in the upper half of the NFL. They were #1 in pass D last year prior to the injuries to Justin and Aldon Smith. Nnamdi missed a tackle and was beaten for a short TD, but in all he actually didn't play all that badly. He broke up a critical 3rd down pass at the end of the game.

 

[Laloosh]

WHY was Wilson Deadly tho? Yes, he's very good, but my bet is that Carolina paid ALOT of attention to the run game and that is a big reason why it wasn't all that effective. When those LBs are cheating up it creates lanes behind them. Shutting down the run and opening up the pass are linked. They don't exist in a vacuum.

I'm sure they will use 3 WR sets. No doubt. My point tho is that the 49ers will defend the Seahawks differently because the Seahawks have a run threat and Wilson is less likely to carve up a Nickel D the way Rodgers did.

Again...don't take this as an insult to Wilson. Kaep threw for 412 yards but he wasn't doing so against a Nickel defense. He was doing so vs a D focused on the run.

BTW...just out of curiosity, why can we be so sure the 49ers won't get pressure the way Carolina did? That's kinda what they do. The Packers didn't give up many sacks mainly because they got the ball off so quickly.

I'd also like to add that the 49ers secondary isn't a horrific as people think. Are they Seattle? Not close. They are however probably in the upper half of the NFL. They were #1 in pass D last year prior to the injuries to Justin and Aldon Smith. Nnamdi missed a tackle and was beaten for a short TD, but in all he actually didn't play all that badly. He broke up a critical 3rd down pass at the end of the game.

Marvin, I can't make the argument that SF won't get pressure like Carolina did in the passing game which is why I made my point about how long Wilson is holding the ball. Also seemed like he didn't have many options for hot routes. When he did, he rarely hit them; instead he scrambled and looked down field.

I think the big difference might be in the run game. A LOT of the negative (or minimal gain) running plays we had were the result of guards pulling and the Carolina D being fast enough to come across the formation (in the backfield) and catch the RB before he could get into the 2nd level. That is what Pete called out in interviews when he said they'd tried to do too much with the o-line. Carolina had an amazing combination of power and speed up front. Killed our blocking scheme for the game.

Kaep was making a lot of quick, high percentage throws to wide open receivers, Rodgers as well. Wilson likely could have had similar numbers if he didn't hold onto the ball for so long. He simply wasn't throwing to open receivers at times and it resulted in some negative plays. I think Cam Newton actually made more "difficult" throws than Wilson or Kaepernick but most of Kaepernick's completions were literally to wide open receivers. Not a knock on him, just a criticism of the GB defense.

Similarly, GB's receivers were often wide open. If Wilson identifies receivers more quickly and hits those quick routes, I don't see how you guys avoid being chewed up by those 3WR sets you're talking about.

 

[Marvin49]

WHY was Wilson Deadly tho? Yes, he's very good, but my bet is that Carolina paid ALOT of attention to the run game and that is a big reason why it wasn't all that effective. When those LBs are cheating up it creates lanes behind them. Shutting down the run and opening up the pass are linked. They don't exist in a vacuum.

I'm sure they will use 3 WR sets. No doubt. My point tho is that the 49ers will defend the Seahawks differently because the Seahawks have a run threat and Wilson is less likely to carve up a Nickel D the way Rodgers did.

Again...don't take this as an insult to Wilson. Kaep threw for 412 yards but he wasn't doing so against a Nickel defense. He was doing so vs a D focused on the run.

BTW...just out of curiosity, why can we be so sure the 49ers won't get pressure the way Carolina did? That's kinda what they do. The Packers didn't give up many sacks mainly because they got the ball off so quickly.

I'd also like to add that the 49ers secondary isn't a horrific as people think. Are they Seattle? Not close. They are however probably in the upper half of the NFL. They were #1 in pass D last year prior to the injuries to Justin and Aldon Smith. Nnamdi missed a tackle and was beaten for a short TD, but in all he actually didn't play all that badly. He broke up a critical 3rd down pass at the end of the game.

Marvin, I can't make the argument that SF won't get pressure like Carolina did in the passing game which is why I made my point about how long Wilson is holding the ball. Also seemed like he didn't have many options for hot routes. When he did, he rarely hit them; instead he scrambled and looked down field.

I think the big difference might be in the run game. A LOT of the negative (or minimal gain) running plays we had were the result of guards pulling and the Carolina D being fast enough to come across the formation (in the backfield) and catch the RB before he could get into the 2nd level. That is what Pete called out in interviews when he said they'd tried to do too much with the o-line. Carolina had an amazing combination of power and speed up front. Killed our blocking scheme for the game.

Kaep was making a lot of quick, high percentage throws to wide open receivers, Rodgers as well. Wilson likely could have had similar numbers if he didn't hold onto the ball for so long. He simply wasn't throwing to open receivers at times and it resulted in some negative plays. I think Cam Newton actually made more "difficult" throws than Wilson or Kaepernick but most of Kaepernick's completions were literally to wide open receivers. Not a knock on him, just a criticism of the GB defense.

Similarly, GB's receivers were often wide open. If Wilson identifies receivers more quickly and hits those quick routes, I don't see how you guys avoid being chewed up by those 3WR sets you're talking about.

I'd be with you if he only did that vs GB...but he was doing that all year last year.

Its a product of a great scheme, play action, accurate downfield passing, and the correct presnap read.

That last one is vital.

Alot of peeps here saw how often the 49ers had to call timeout or got a delay of game penalty and attributed it to "Kaep was shaken". I've been arguing this notion all offseason. I'm not really trying to bring it up again...but if you see what happened against GB, you might be able to see what I was talking about. They had the exact same problem at HOME.

More than any other offense in the NFL, the 49ers do ALOT of their setup BEFORE the snap. While in other offenses a WR will break off his route if he sees a specific coverage, the 49ers actually go to the line with 2 or 3 plays. That takes quite awhile to convey. Kaep will see the D presnap and will check into the correct play just before the ball is snapped. In order for him to get a good read on what the D is doing, the 49ers will do a number of presnap shifts in order to see how the D responds. "When you hear Kaep yell "Let it roll", "Green, Green, Green" or "Kill, Kill, Kill", that is him telling his players what the actual play is. This is in adition to whatever audibles he might have. Harbaugh ran the same offense with Luck at Stanford.

IE...most of the time, the 49ers are in a favorable play for any matchup and why very often you see receivers running wide open. Play action also does this because it keeps the defense honest and gives the QB more defined looks. This is why I'm not on here talking about how Kaepernick is better than Rodgers, Manning, Brady, etc. I understand what they are doing with him and in the scheme to begin with. Kaep is playing very, very well and the sky is the limit, but the Scheme and Gameplans are a HUGE part of his success.

Because of all the play calls and all the presnap shifts, the 49ers most often snap the ball with little or no time on the clock. They also do some of that intentionally to force the D to declare. Its beneficial in todays NFL when so many teams are running up tempo as well because it gives the defense a rest. The Packers tried to run up tempo but the niner D never really showed any fatigue until late in the game and even then not too much.

All of this is also why I'm predicting the Seahawks win on Sunday. The noise certainly creates a problem for the 49ers if they can't get the plays in and relayed on time. My guess is that they have a strategy to roll out, but I don't have a clue what it is. Up tempo to catch Seattle off guard? No idea.

 

[Laloosh]

A lot of people get that he couldn't make those adjustments, Marvin. I'd bring up the points that your defense gave up (after all, our defense didn't score ALL of our points in that game) but you'd probably just throw out a bunch of nonsense about being tired from the Pats game.

Seriously though, do you think Kaep throws for 420+ yards if he's able to make those adjustments in Seattle?

 

[RolandDeschain]

BTW...just out of curiosity, why can we be so sure the 49ers won't get pressure the way Carolina did?

Because the 49ers get pressure against Wilson without getting pressure. :lol:

 

[Laloosh]

In fairness, Roland... I think the SF edge rushers won't be running past him in the pocket this time, leaving a gap to sneak through (at least not as often). Carolina showed that discipline on the edge can screw him up. Hence the need for him to actually hit a hot route once in a while.

 

[hawker84]

I love that clip, my favorite from last year. Benny Hill comes to mind.. classic.

 

[RolandDeschain]

In fairness, Roland... I think the SF edge rushers won't be running past him in the pocket this time, leaving a gap to sneak through (at least not as often)

I would hope not, from a 49ers fan perspective. NFL coordinators and players are expected to learn from their mistakes, haha.

 

[mikeak]

Marvin49 - got a question and hope to get a football answer and not a fan answer - serious question and just interested in your opinion.

First part and not writing this to argue this is my opinion based on numbers from last year and won't change. Kaep was great at running the ball and great at passing the ball. I didn't subscribe to the only looking at his first target and at least if I did after watching the superbowl I thought he was deadly and looked at multiple receivers when needed. BUT I did think and the numbers supported this that when Kaep was scrambling he wasn't very good at throwing. This was unlike RW that doesn't loose much in ratings when throwing outside the pocket.

So not sure how much in the Packers game where Kaep were scrambling and throwing. Did it happen a lot and if so how did he look?

Appreciate your / anyones thought on this

 

[Laloosh]

Marvin49 - got a question and hope to get a football answer and not a fan answer - serious question and just interested in your opinion.

First part and not writing this to argue this is my opinion based on numbers from last year and won't change. Kaep was great at running the ball and great at passing the ball. I didn't subscribe to the only looking at his first target and at least if I did after watching the superbowl I thought he was deadly and looked at multiple receivers when needed. BUT I did think and the numbers supported this that when Kaep was scrambling he wasn't very good at throwing. This was unlike RW that doesn't loose much in ratings when throwing outside the pocket.

So not sure how much in the Packers game where Kaep were scrambling and throwing. Did it happen a lot and if so how did he look?

Appreciate your / anyones thought on this

Kaep had a very nice throw on the run to his right and then he had another in which he over threw it. He looked fine though.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Kaep barely ever had to leave the pocket. Green Bay got crap pressure all game.

 

[Marvin49]

A lot of people get that he couldn't make those adjustments, Marvin. I'd bring up the points that your defense gave up (after all, our defense didn't score ALL of our points in that game) but you'd probably just throw out a bunch of nonsense about being tired from the Pats game.

Seriously though, do you think Kaep throws for 420+ yards if he's able to make those adjustments in Seattle?

Huh?

I wasn't making excuses for the loss there. I was just talking about all the presnap stuff they do and how that gets receivers running open and also creates problems for themselves in loud stadiums.

I don't expect 400+ yards in Seattle. In fact I think Seattle will win. I've already said that.