Ravens vs Steelers

IndyHawk

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It is nice looking stats when you were totally trash in the first half
and go cook in the second while they went into man coverage.
It's not how they want a QB playing there, it's why Payton pulled
the plug in Denver.
People just look at the passing numbers but it's really more than that.
 
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keasley45

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Keeps landing on short, safe passes that the defense is happy to give and get them off the field. That OPI may have been a pick without the push. They'll need to open it up a little and get the ravens from just containing everything and dominating the ball
Problem is, they arent NOT opening it up. Just like Denver wasnt NOT opening it up last year. There are routes that need to be thrown the second they are open. There are routes that open between zones. There are routes that need to be thrown with anticipation. None of that is Russ's game. Never was. And so Russ becomes Checkdown Charlie. Or a qb who gets fat hitting on the routes the D offers or on occassion, hits magic on a busted coverage on an improv play.
 

keasley45

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Anybody who is on the fence about Russ making it to Canton should look up all the records he broke in the 10 years with us. Oh, and by the way, he has a ring.

Sorry for the Russ haters but he will be wearing a gold jacket within 15 years from now.
I dont disagree with the stats. The issue Russ has is that he has shown that he is a QB that can only play the game his way.

When you look at the qbs in Canton, their isnt a single one who didnt have the cerebral aspect of the game or who thrived solely off of athletic ability, now is their one who wasnt undisputably a leader.

Russ has called into question the value of his stats given the group with whom he played (Lynch and the LOB) and the coach who allowed him to play the way he did, to the point he was sustained at the expense of all else.

Contrast Russ with his own personal support group in the coaches and system (and literal perosnal attendants who he took with him to Denver) to Russ without those elements and you have a qb unlike any other in The Hall. One who was a highlight machine and made magic on the field, to one who couldnt run a HOF coach's playbook, and was unceremoniously left to pasture despite the financial hell it left the franchise in.

And contrast Russ (the 'other' Russ) against a rookie in Bo Nix who took that same playbook and managed to get his team in the playoffs, without the physical skill and experience of an 11 year SB winning vet like Wilson. And he did it while taking 24 sacks, vs Wilson's 45 sacks... and Wilson didnt play in the last 2 games.

Wilson THIS year has 33 vs Nix 24 for the whole season.

Should that be disqualifying? In itself? No. But he has left in his wake 2 QBs who have stepped into the vacancies he has left and havent struggled. Neither are longing for the days that he was QB (although some fans might be) and he is available in the league still playing, for them to acquire if they wanted to.

The truth Russ has now shown, is that he wasnt a qb who was ever held back by those around him. To the contrary, he has shown that he was a qb who only ever won anything or found success beyond stats when he played with a HOF team around him.

When the weather turned cold and opposing defenses hardened in the post-season, the teams he led exited, despite sporting formidable ground attacks and until 2019, at least average defenses.

Unfortunately, now, the one counter Russ always had to failing was poor protection, but poor protection has followed him literally everywhere he has gone. Why would anyone now think that Seattle EVER could have done something to help him achieve the mythical 'championship ball' he and the team supposedly could have achieved if only the blocking was better ?

That is the question and those are the realities HOF voters will have to ponder in trying to fit Wilson for a golden jacket. And none of those consideration that plagur Russ, surround the HOF qb enshrined in Canton.

Stats dont alone guarantee access, nor do championships. Ask Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Jim Plunkett and others. Russ's stats will now be qualified to a degree by the fact that he played for Peyton, put up solid numbers but was wholely ineffective.

I'd be happy for him if he got in and i am forever thankful for (and still amazed by) the performances he put on here in Seattle. But when you look back on thisr games and no longer have the illusion of 'what if pur coordinator was better' or 'what if our line had been better' how much better we could have been and realize it was as good as it coukd have been with Russ... well that rings a little bit different. And thats just reality. But i wouldnt trade it for anything. It was a phenomenal period in Seahawks history, and he was the qb.
 

Cyrus12

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I think Russ was very close to getting an extension in Pittsburgh but the 5 losses in a row pretty much sealed his fate.. He is now journeyman status fighting to be a starter in the league and he will sign another 1 year deal to compete with someone to get snaps. How many hof caliber qb's has this happened to at his age? Favre comes to mind perhaps but he did have some success with Minnesota. He still makes the hof i guess but I bet he wanted the majority of the reason why to be after he left Seattle. No one can say it hasn't been a disaster since he left Pete. Maybe they reunite one more time in Las Vegas.
 

strohmin

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Anyone who thought Russ was going to carry the steelers to a superbowl was delusional. It was always going to be the run game and defense that would have to keep the game close for Russ to play his game. I really thought the steelers had those 2 elements to win a superbowl with Russ especially after the first win against the ravens but boy was I wrong. Apart from Russell's arm and accuracy, nothing else is good about his game right now.
 
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toffee

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Wilson did not entertain me in this game, I came to see running in circles, didn't happen. I came to see hero ball, not much there either.

What was there, the slow start, the sacks , and the sideline motivational speeches.
 

Rat

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Anybody who is on the fence about Russ making it to Canton should look up all the records he broke in the 10 years with us. Oh, and by the way, he has a ring.

Sorry for the Russ haters but he will be wearing a gold jacket within 15 years from now.
I was trolling when I said he "obviously" wouldn't make it to Canton, and I do believe he was on a HOF track when he left Seattle, but honestly, I think he's 50/50 at best right now and quite likely needs to another deep playoff run to get anywhere near "safe".

With the offensive explosion of the past few decades, his stats are going to look less and less impressive the further we go, and I think we're going to see some amending in what the voters deem most important. Russ has no MVPs (not even as much as an MVP vote any point), just one second-team All-Pro, and rarely led the league in anything not related to sacks, with one season as the TD leader and one season as the QB rating leader. He's currently 17th all-time in passing yards, and getting to the top 10 would help. He needs 13,674 yards to get there, but unfortunately, #10 is an active player (Stafford). If Stafford doesn't retire after the season, he'll need just 1,552 yards to reach ninth all-time. That means Russ would need 15,226 yards to break into the top 10. How likely is it that he'll even stick around long enough to hit that? What's also interesting in that case would be that the guy he would be passing to get into the top 10 would be Dan Marino. I'd be curious how that would be perceived. One one hand, you can say "Wow, he has more career yards than Marino!", but on the other hand, if Marino is suddenly out of the top 10, with all ten players who would be ahead of him having retired AFTER he did, is career passing yards even going to be considered all that serious anymore? Kind of a double-edged sword.

Russ is 12th in passing TDs and is just 27 TDs out of 10th, which seems doable, but it's Stafford at 10th again, who needs just three more to pass Matt Ryan for ninth. Can he get 31 more passing TDs? He had 16 in 11 games this year. Depends on how much more opportunity he gets. What's good with the TD number at least is that he's not going to get passed any time soon. Mahomes eventually will, but he's 105 back at the moment. The only other player in the current top 50 with anything resembling a realistic chance is Goff, who is 128 TDs behind Russ and would need to average 32 per season over the next four to reach what Russ currently has in the same number of seasons, although just over 21 over the next six to reach what he has by the same age.

He's fifth in QB rating, but given that Drew Brees at #7 is the only player in the top 10 who isn't current, I don't think voters are going to care much about it. Among the others in the top 10 are DeShaun Watson, Dak Prescott, Tua Tagovailoa, and Jimmy Garoppolo.

Fair or not, if Russ were to retire today, I think when his candidacy comes up, we would hear a lot of talk that he was a great player for a team that won a Super Bowl with an all-time defense, but when a championship was put into his hands, he threw an INT on the one-yard line, and he was nowhere near as effective after leaving Seattle. If Pete has a successful tenure with his next team, that probably won't help either.

Best QB in Seahawks history bar none. Unfortunately, I think he's looking at a considerable uphill battle for the Hall of Fame.
 

jeremiah

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The Ravens were vastly better than the Steelers, who look like they need to restock the team with players. The Ravens though, seem to be the best team in the league at this time, KC couldn't have beaten them yesterday. Next game though, they will have a down game. Ravens laid it all on the line, showing their power and the fact that they were rested.

The NFL playoff system, where Division winners get better seeding, but no week off before the playoffs EXCEPT for the top seed, is BS. It is a money grab putting more games on the TV, that will lead to worse football in the playoffs, and more injuries. All in the name of $$$$$$$$$.
 

chrispy

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AI says it's uncertain but that he could get back on track. It also says he plans to play into his 40s. If he plays into his 40s, he'll probably make it. If he can't find a job next season, I think AI is correct and that it's uncertain at best.

If his home fanbase doesn't overall think he deserves it, how does that bode for a national electorate that normally ignores the PNW in every other scenario?

As pointed out above, QBs will have relatively higher stats going forward because of the game's continued evolution paired with an extra game/yr. The extra game won't just add an incremental increase. It'll be a step change in numbers going forward. In 10 years, earliest he's eligible, many of his records as a young QB will be broken. He'll have a ring. He'll be remembered for some great individual plays. He possibly could have 1 or 2 records that are based on percentages and not totals. Other than that, what else will justify it in 10 years? ... or even worse; if he hangs around being mediocre for another 3 years, it'll be 13 years to be eligible and the numbers will be further away from him.

I'm not advocating one way or another. It's silly to argue about it because we have no impact and whether it's justified or not. We've seen that these type of decisions are driven by a lot of other variables. If Ciara releases a big album the years he's eligible, a 75 year old Goodell might capitalize and force the issue.... It'll be what it'll be and I probably won't be diligent enough to come back in 10 years if he makes it and accept my "crow."
 

PhxPhin

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Russ had a lot of "first QB to" benchmarks and and really visible high moments, but the case may not be as strong as meant think

There was a lot of talk that Kurt Warner needed the AZ resurgence after flaming out in NY to secure his spot

It's not so much about comparing against who is already in vs comparing against his generational peers

What works against him there is his lack of individual recognition - no MVP votes, made 2nd team all pro once in his career, etc

Was there ever a time where he was clearly one of the top 3 QBs active? Top 5?

Then when he went out to focus on and secure his legacy and got everything he wanted, he fell flat on his face

This year he ended up in about as perfect of a situation as he could have hoped and didn't get it done

I think he may ultimately get in, but it's far from a slam dunk
 

OrangeGravy

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Russ had a lot of "first QB to" benchmarks and and really visible high moments, but the case may not be as strong as meant think

There was a lot of talk that Kurt Warner needed the AZ resurgence after flaming out in NY to secure his spot

It's not so much about comparing against who is already in vs comparing against his generational peers

What works against him there is his lack of individual recognition - no MVP votes, made 2nd team all pro once in his career, etc

Was there ever a time where he was clearly one of the top 3 QBs active? Top 5?

Then when he went out to focus on and secure his legacy and got everything he wanted, he fell flat on his face

This year he ended up in about as perfect of a situation as he could have hoped and didn't get it done

I think he may ultimately get in, but it's far from a slam dunk
People confuse benchmarks with records. Benchmarks are in fact not records. They might be remembered by some, but they're nothing more than TV broadcast talking points at that time.
 
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toffee

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Tomlin just hasn't had a good enough QB since mid-to-late Roethlisberger to be a SB contender. It sucks when you don't have the guy. If he should decide to move on, he shouldn't take a job with a team without a franchise QB.

Really!?!

HOF, all-pro, probowler Russell Wilson beg to differ.
 

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