Random thoughts on the Chargers game

[RolandDeschain]

Munn, the loss of offensive possession by Percy's fumble is kind of washed out by the extra possession the Chargers had where they only had time to kneel before the half. Go look at the drive chart and count how many times each offense actually received the ball to start a fresh set of downs with.

If you ignore that possession it makes sense to ignore the final possession where we got the ball with 13 seconds to go when 9 points down.

In which case there were 9 SD possessions and 8 Seattle possessions.

SD - FG, TD, FG, TD (Harvin fumble), Punt, TD, Punt, Punt, FG
SEA - Punt, TD, Punt, TD, Punt, TD, Punt, Turnover on Downs

If SD don't get the possession we gifted them with the fumble, we punt on that final drive and SD have to drive up the field for a FG to win.
Even if we score our second TD in a minute again (of course, we would have attempted to eat clock instead of score on a 1 minute drill), at the very least we kick off to them and they have to drive the length of the field instead of start on our 32.

If Irvin doesn't push Rivers out of bounds that TD becomes a FG.

We spotted them 11 points with a special teams gaffe and a defensive gaffe. When starting drives in their own half the Chargers scored 20 points (and one of those drives started at their own 45 yard line after Ryan's dreadful punt). When starting drives in their own half the Seahawks scored 21 points.

It's easy for me to say that the Chargers offense played better than ours because they scored points AND controlled the clock. But I can't pin any blame on the offense for the way they played, because the defense and special teams mishaps were what put them in that position.

I thought I did discount the final 13-second possession, but guess not. Either way, one less opportunity. Not a huge difference since we only scored on three of eight "real" opportunities. Not even being able to get in field goal range on five chances against a bad Chargers defense is pretty poor, wouldn't you agree? They were literally dead last in DVOA on defense last year per Football Outsiders. They look better this year, but it's not like a defense can go from horrific to elite in one off-season.

 

[themunn]

but it's not like a defense can go from horrific to elite in one off-season.

The Saints 2012 defense was 32nd in yards allowed (worst ever) and 31st in points allowed.
In 2013 it was 4th in yards allowed and points allowed.

Hell, it doesn't even take a season.

We went from one of the worst defenses in the league in the first half of 2011, averaging 253 passing yards, 110 rushing yards, 353 total yards and 22.9 points per game (26th, 13th and 20th) to become one of the best in the second half averaging 187 passing yards (3rd), 114 rushing yards (16th) and 301 YPG (4th) 16.3 PPG allowed (4th) over the final 8 games.

1 year later we were the consensus best defense in the league.

So we punted a few times against SD. Big whoop. We scored 21 points and gained 310 yards in limited opportunities.
In the Broncos (greatest ever offense ever ever) 3 games against the Chargers (worst defense in the league) last year their possessions went like this (discounting possessions which ended with a knee to run out the clock):

10 possessions, 4 TDs, 5 punts, 1 fumble lost (having led the entirety of the game, no catchup playing required)
9 possessions, 2 TDs, 4 punts, 2 FGs, 1 interception
7 possessions, 3 TDs, 2 FGs (one missed), 1 fumble, 1 INT

Is that really that much more impressive than us given they were in the lead for the entirety of the first game, and the Chargers didn't score a single point in the first 3 quarters in the third game? (They lost the second game).

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

We scored on three of eight drives on offense against a San Diego defense that is supposedly one of the worst in the league.

We allowed San Diego to score 30 points on a defense that is supposedly world-class.

Clearly we had issues on both sides of the ball.

 

[RolandDeschain]

The Saints 2012 defense was 32nd in yards allowed (worst ever) and 31st in points allowed.
In 2013 it was 4th in yards allowed and points allowed.

Yardage is an abysmally awful way to measure a defense. Come on, dude. NO's defense was 28th in DVOA in 2011, 32nd in 2012, and 10th in 2013. Big jump, there. Probably one of the biggest ever. Seriously though, don't even try to use yardage to measure anything.

 

[themunn]

Dvoa is a crock of shit too.

PPG is the only stat that matters. The Saints went from 29th to 7th in one season.

And for what it's with, the current leaders in points scored per drive are?

 

[Anthony!]

Your are right your statement is dumb, you are basically giving the defense a pass to try and blame the offense when they did all they could given how little they had the ball. Sorry this is on the defense period. Could the offense have done more yeah, I mean the o-line could have tried to pass block, the wr could have not had 4 drops, but when your defense lets the other team hold the ball 12 minutes in the first qtr and your offense scores a TD in the 3 minutes they get the ball your defense is a problem.

Reading comprehension must require about eight years of college to acquire based on how difficult you find it. I'm not giving the defense a pass for the mediocre-at-best product they fielded yesterday.

glad you admit it was the defense

 

[Anthony!]

ahh so instead of taking the 3 tds we should have eaten more time and hoped we got them later. dumb statement

No, the only thing dumb here is your interpretation of what I said. The drives we DIDN'T score on, or even really start driving down the field on, are our fault. Our offense was given the ball with time to work just as many times as the Chargers offense was.

On the other hand, the offense wasn't given the ball on San Diego's 32 yard line (Percy fumble), which, even had we failed to score a TD would have been a surefire FG. Neither did we get the ball on San Diego's 5 yard line (turnover on downs).
And we DEFINITELY didn't have a drive extended after a failure to convert on third down TWICE (Malcolm Smith holding and Bruce Irvin personal foul).

Do you think we could have scored 30 points to match the Chargers if the offense had been given those same opportunities the Chargers had?

The fumble by Harvin on the kickoff gave the Chargers an extra drive and helped the Chargers score 10 points without our offense touching the ball. We keep that ball there's 4 minutes on the clock. Drive up the field and score and instead of going into the half down 6, we go in up 1. That's not on the defense of course, but that's what cost us in the end.

I agree great post not to mention drops by the WRs and really bad pass blocking, all that said the Offense was not to blame here, this is all on the D.

 

[Anthony!]

Munn, the loss of offensive possession by Percy's fumble is kind of washed out by the extra possession the Chargers had where they only had time to kneel before the half. Go look at the drive chart and count how many times each offense actually received the ball to start a fresh set of downs with.

Ahh so still does not change the facts that our defense was horrible and allowed them to extent drives

 

[Anthony!]

Munn, the loss of offensive possession by Percy's fumble is kind of washed out by the extra possession the Chargers had where they only had time to kneel before the half. Go look at the drive chart and count how many times each offense actually received the ball to start a fresh set of downs with.

If you ignore that possession it makes sense to ignore the final possession where we got the ball with 13 seconds to go when 9 points down.

In which case there were 9 SD possessions and 8 Seattle possessions.

SD - FG, TD, FG, TD (Harvin fumble), Punt, TD, Punt, Punt, FG
SEA - Punt, TD, Punt, TD, Punt, TD, Punt, Turnover on Downs

If SD don't get the possession we gifted them with the fumble, we punt on that final drive and SD have to drive up the field for a FG to win.
Even if we score our second TD in a minute again (of course, we would have attempted to eat clock instead of score on a 1 minute drill), at the very least we kick off to them and they have to drive the length of the field instead of start on our 32.

If Irvin doesn't push Rivers out of bounds that TD becomes a FG.

We spotted them 11 points with a special teams gaffe and a defensive gaffe. When starting drives in their own half the Chargers scored 20 points (and one of those drives started at their own 45 yard line after Ryan's dreadful punt). When starting drives in their own half the Seahawks scored 21 points.

It's easy for me to say that the Chargers offense played better than ours because they scored points AND controlled the clock. But I can't pin any blame on the offense for the way they played, because the defense and special teams mishaps were what put them in that position.

I thought I did discount the final 13-second possession, but guess not. Either way, one less opportunity. Not a huge difference since we only scored on three of eight "real" opportunities. Not even being able to get in field goal range on five chances against a bad Chargers defense is pretty poor, wouldn't you agree? They were literally dead last in DVOA on defense last year per Football Outsiders. They look better this year, but it's not like a defense can go from horrific to elite in one off-season.

Really you might want to check out those drives just like it is tough on a defense to be out there for 12 minutes in a QTR it is hard on an offense to sit for 12 minutes in a qtr. Both of those problem deal with the Defenses in ability to get off the filed period. Now could the Offense have down more, yeah no matter how well you play you can always do more, but even with that it would be 70% defense, 25% ST and 5 Offense, so its still on the defense.

 

[Anthony!]

We scored on three of eight drives on offense against a San Diego defense that is supposedly one of the worst in the league.

We allowed San Diego to score 30 points on a defense that is supposedly world-class.

Clearly we had issues on both sides of the ball.

Yes and No because the defensive issues are what created the offensive issues in most cases, For example the offense sat for over 12 minutes in the 1st qtr hard to do much when you hardly see the ball and get into any flow.

 

[Anthony!]

The Saints 2012 defense was 32nd in yards allowed (worst ever) and 31st in points allowed.
In 2013 it was 4th in yards allowed and points allowed.

Yardage is an abysmally awful way to measure a defense. Come on, dude. NO's defense was 28th in DVOA in 2011, 32nd in 2012, and 10th in 2013. Big jump, there. Probably one of the biggest ever. Seriously though, don't even try to use yardage to measure anything.

Yeah you cannot use any stats that prove your point only the ones that prove his point, sarcasm off.

 

[Anthony!]

Dvoa is a crock of shit too.

PPG is the only stat that matters. The Saints went from 29th to 7th in one season.

And for what it's with, the current leaders in points scored per drive are?

Finally a stat that is open and shut and proves your point.

 

[sutz]

A note on the end of the 'streak'. I don't blame SD for kicking the final FG. When you're up by 7 with just a few seconds to go and set to hand the ball over, you make it a 2 score game. That's what they did.

So, for me, it wasn't a 'cheap' figgie at all. It was football 101.

:shrug:

 

[kidhawk]

A note on the end of the 'streak'. I don't blame SD for kicking the final FG. When you're up by 7 with just a few seconds to go and set to hand the ball over, you make it a 2 score game. That's what they did.

So, for me, it wasn't a 'cheap' figgie at all. It was football 101.

:shrug:

To even further what you are saying they were actually only up by 6 (21-27) and ended up winning by 9. It's one thing to leave a chance at a tie (however slim the chance) but you don't leave a chance for one play to cost you the game no matter how slim that chance if you can kick it.

I so badly wanted to see our first blocked kick of the year at that point, but this isn't an end all by any means. I have figured we'd lose 3-4 games this season and still take the West and vie for home field, so we are fine. I don't consider one bad performance the end of the world, especially with how good our defense truly is.

 

[taco40]

"This game reminded me an awful lot of Miami in 2012"

Chatted with another Hawks fan wearing his seahawks t-shirt at the grocery after the game. I mentioned to him that I felt that the Seahawks are a much better lousy cold rainy weather team than a hot and humid team.
Defense didn't look like they were ready for this game. Did they miss too much when watching video for trends?
If Gates drops one of those 4-5 unreal catches, the game looks far different.
Wasn't pleased with the out-of-bounds hit, especially after nearly being called for it earlier. Can't make those mistakes and leave your team out to dry after making the third down stop.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

We scored on three of eight drives on offense against a San Diego defense that is supposedly one of the worst in the league.

We allowed San Diego to score 30 points on a defense that is supposedly world-class.

Clearly we had issues on both sides of the ball.

Yes and No because the defensive issues are what created the offensive issues in most cases, For example the offense sat for over 12 minutes in the 1st qtr hard to do much when you hardly see the ball and get into any flow.

Yes and no how? Yes, the offense sat for over twelve minutes in the first quarter. So what? What did they do when they got the ball back besides run four plays and give it right back to San Diego, pushing the defense back out onto the field again?

There is equal fault here and plenty to go around.

 

[Anthony!]

We scored on three of eight drives on offense against a San Diego defense that is supposedly one of the worst in the league.

We allowed San Diego to score 30 points on a defense that is supposedly world-class.

Clearly we had issues on both sides of the ball.

Yes and No because the defensive issues are what created the offensive issues in most cases, For example the offense sat for over 12 minutes in the 1st qtr hard to do much when you hardly see the ball and get into any flow.

Yes and no how? Yes, the offense sat for over twelve minutes in the first quarter. So what? What did they do when they got the ball back besides run four plays and give it right back to San Diego, pushing the defense back out onto the field again?

There is equal fault here and plenty to go around.

I am glad you think that way, I am also glad everyone else knows the truth and the truth and fact show the defense was the main reason we lost period.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Dvoa is a crock of shit too.

PPG is the only stat that matters. The Saints went from 29th to 7th in one season.

And for what it's with, the current leaders in points scored per drive are?

Well, guess I'm done with you here. Go join the 49ers Webzone, your thought processes will fit right in with many of their threads.

I am glad you think that way, I am also glad everyone else knows the truth and the truth and fact show the defense was the main reason we lost period.

I'm glad you think the offense shouldn't ever be relied upon to win a game when the defense has a bad day, and by "glad", I mean a euphemism for something I can only say in the shack in case that wasn't blindingly obvious.

 

[kearly]

A grand total of 13 plays involving Lynch and Harvin combined, including runs, passes, and pass attempts is fine by you? I'm not trolling, I swear - I'm honestly curious. I don't think that's fine at all, especially when you consider that several of those 13 were unplanned dump-off passes to Lynch.

We basically ignored our two best weapons on offense.

7.2 yards per play (that's a really, really good number). Seattle's points per drive compared favorably with the 2013 Broncos. Bevell avoided predictably playcalls.

Harvin fumbled, and afterwards only rarely saw the football. I'm guessing coaches do this because fumbles seemingly come in bunches. Coaches tend to back away from players in a game after they fumble.

Lynch had back spasms during the game.

 

[RolandDeschain]

7.2 yards per play. Points per drive that would compare favorably with the 2013 Broncos. On the road against a decent defense. Avoided predictably playcalls.

Coaches tend to back away from players in a game after they fumble. Harvin fumbled, and afterwards only rarely saw the football.

Lynch had back spasms during the game.

The sore back thing wasn't public knowledge when I first asked that. I also don't buy that the fumble is why they avoided Percy. Pete's a smart guy, you think he didn't look at the replay of that and see that Percy tucked it away as he should have with two hands? It was bad luck. It happens. It wasn't a mistake by Percy.

Referencing "points per drive" against the Broncos last year is also kind of misleading. We scored fewer than half the average points per game that the Broncos did. Not to beat a dead horse some more, but I was really hoping after we saw a number of slants in the Super Bowl that we'd implement it more into our passing attack. I feel like we really could have used some on Sunday.