QB Controversy

[ZagHawk]

Or you can view it as Brock Huard does, and acknowledge that Geno has had one of the worst running games in the league this year, and worked with one that was comparable over the 2nd half of last year. We saw 8 games or so with our offense functioning as it should, with a reliable running game and solid protection. The numbers don't lie. If there wasn't such a sharp and obvious correlation between when Geno was best and not, and when our running game and blocking were effective / actually used logically and not, I'd be with you that he's on a downward slope.

But like Brock said ' how good (how much better) could Geno be if he had a running game ?...'

He's not off the charts talented. He's got great ball placement, a good arm and can process plays well enough.

He can't just take over a game on his own. But if he has the pieces around him, time to throw, and a logical plan, a lot of the talk about regression would be quited some.

That's a lot of IFs and so says he's not a top tier QB (Top 10). Which you can win with, but then it means you gotta put the money/talent around to make everything else work to essentially carry the QB who is not carrying the team. I don't think it's regression for Geno, I think its exposure. He is a mid pack QB who needs an offense to function for him to function. I think a top tier QB is a QB who can carry an offense and he can make it function.


Lets play hypothetical....if you put Geno on the Niners..that have all the pieces in play you would want for Geno to excel. Would he perform at the same level as Purdy, below or better?

 

[Dvl Dug]

Put me on an EKG machine, make me watch Geno Smith, and __________________ (end of beeps).
I believe it's called, "flat lining."

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Uhhh....people were quoting how his stats put him in the top 3 even last year mainly the first 3/4s of the season before running into the Niners 3 times and the Rams.

Um......the Seahawks swept the Rams last season.

 

[Maelstrom787]

That's a lot of IFs and so says he's not a top tier QB (Top 10). Which you can win with, but then it means you gotta put the money/talent around to make everything else work to essentially carry the QB who is not carrying the team. I don't think it's regression for Geno, I think its exposure. He is a mid pack QB who needs an offense to function for him to function. I think a top tier QB is a QB who can carry an offense and he can make it function.


Lets play hypothetical....if you put Geno on the Niners..that have all the pieces in play you would want for Geno to excel. Would he perform at the same level as Purdy, below or better?

For me, he'd probably play at about the same as Purdy, who has thrown the ball least of all QBs to start every game (but the Niners always lead so that might be a poisoned stat) - and most of those throws are to receivers who are running with large separation.

Purdy is just operating the offense. His video game numbers aren't a result of any sort of rare talent. It's just because he's willing to stand in there and has enough talent to keep the offense wholly multi-dimensional. He can get vertical well enough to give the Niners offense that added threat, unlike Jimmy G.

The Niners have built something insane. Their 21 personnel is nearly unstoppable in every regard. Everything complements everything. Players move around. Their players are multi-dimensional stars. Deebo can run or catch, McCaffery is the same way. Kittle can block or catch. You take that versatility and add in heavy motion, and you've got the hardest offense to defend against in recent memory - but its one of the easiest to operate in, and Geno and Lock would both produce. Geno's game is a little "tighter" overall than Lock's, which is what I think gives him the edge as a player.

 

[renofox]

I just don't get why everyone is so passionate, for or against, a pair of mid-tier easily replaceable players.

Geno's performance and Lock's probable potential are basically the same - this team is not competing deep in the playoffs with either one.

Geno has morphed from good backup to a Bridge to Nowhere to The Man. Lock has morphed from a good backup to they guy who can far surpass Geno's mid-level performance.

I just don't get it.

 

[WarHawks]

I don't get it either. I thought we were past this whole Geno thing. Personally, I could care less if he ever plays another snap for the Hawks. He's just a placeholder, and we already have a younger version of that with Lock. Ugh.

 

[knownone]

For me, he'd probably play at about the same as Purdy, who has thrown the ball least of all QBs to start every game (but the Niners always lead so that might be a poisoned stat) - and most of those throws are to receivers who are running with large separation.

Purdy is just operating the offense. His video game numbers aren't a result of any sort of rare talent. It's just because he's willing to stand in there and has enough talent to keep the offense wholly multi-dimensional. He can get vertical well enough to give the Niners offense that added threat, unlike Jimmy G.

The Niners have built something insane. Their 21 personnel is nearly unstoppable in every regard. Everything complements everything. Players move around. Their players are multi-dimensional stars. Deebo can run or catch, McCaffery is the same way. Kittle can block or catch. You take that versatility and add in heavy motion, and you've got the hardest offense to defend against in recent memory - but its one of the easiest to operate in, and Geno and Lock would both produce. Geno's game is a little "tighter" overall than Lock's, which is what I think gives him the edge as a player.

The Purdy analysis is spot on and hard for many people to fathom because of his insane stats. Purdy is not only dead last in passing attempts but also in attempts in obvious passing situations. And the Niners are so talented that defenses still rely almost exclusively on base defense in those situations. So, when you compare his coverage ratios to someone like Josh Allen, it's kind of laughable how vast the degree of difficulty is between the two.

But yeah. If we swapped QBs with the Niners and replayed the season, It's hard to imagine things would be significantly different for either team. Maybe Seattle wins an extra game, maybe the Niners lose one.

 

[LTH]

That's a lot of IFs and so says he's not a top tier QB (Top 10). Which you can win with, but then it means you gotta put the money/talent around to make everything else work to essentially carry the QB who is not carrying the team. I don't think it's regression for Geno, I think its exposure. He is a mid pack QB who needs an offense to function for him to function. I think a top tier QB is a QB who can carry an offense and he can make it function.


Lets play hypothetical....if you put Geno on the Niners..that have all the pieces in play you would want for Geno to excel. Would he perform at the same level as Purdy, below or better?

Well a simple answer to your question about Purdy is to look at the three game slide the Niners had a big contributing factor to that slide was the loss of Trent Williams and McCaffery... look at purdys numbers as soon as he did NOT have a great running game and did not have a probowl left tackle he started throwing INT'S and his production dropped dramatically. So I'm totally agreeing with Keasley45 110%.


LTH

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I just don't get why everyone is so passionate, for or against, a pair of mid-tier easily replaceable players.

Geno's performance and Lock's probable potential are basically the same - this team is not competing deep in the playoffs with either one.

Geno has morphed from good backup to a Bridge to Nowhere to The Man. Lock has morphed from a good backup to they guy who can far surpass Geno's mid-level performance.

I just don't get it.

Yeah, we shouldn't be passionate about our football team at all. And we should absolutely expect the worst, every week. I mean, why even play the games, since the Hawks clearly are gonna' lose every week and in the playoffs...........

 

[renofox]

Yeah, we shouldn't be passionate about our football team at all. And we should absolutely expect the worst, every week. I mean, why even play the games, since the Hawks clearly are gonna' lose every week and in the playoffs...........

Passionate about the team is normal. Passionate about two replacement level players, especially advancing arguments that one is great and the other sucks, is just abnormal.

Portraying my attitude as "gonna lose every week" is also a pretty lame attempt at an insult. Check my posts in the prediction thread. I've called most of the wins correctly and am 11-3 for the season. I called for them to beat the Eagles.

Then again, many here don't want accurate and honest discussion on where the team is and where it could go with the right moves. And that's fine. I don't flame and insult those people even though I disagree with their desired form of expressing their fandom.

I'll leave that to the pie-in-the-sky fans who want an Everything Is Awesome outlook.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fair enough. Everything is not awesome. But it certainly doesn't suck. They are an above average team with a shot at making playoffs. That's not a horrible thing.

Have a great holiday everyone.

Go Hawks

 

[DarkVictory23]

The Purdy analysis is spot on and hard for many people to fathom because of his insane stats. Purdy is not only dead last in passing attempts but also in attempts in obvious passing situations. And the Niners are so talented that defenses still rely almost exclusively on base defense in those situations. So, when you compare his coverage ratios to someone like Josh Allen, it's kind of laughable how vast the degree of difficulty is between the two.

But yeah. If we swapped QBs with the Niners and replayed the season, It's hard to imagine things would be significantly different for either team. Maybe Seattle wins an extra game, maybe the Niners lose one.

Geno has a better deep ball than Purdy, so I think it'd actually be the reverse.

Geno produced 300+ and 4 total TDs and took 0 sacks against Micah Parsons and Dallas' pass rush.

As LTH just noted, the moment one of the best LTs in the league went down Purdy started coughing up the ball. How do we think he would look with an OL put together with duct tape and chicken wire?

 

[CactusJack]

Geno is the guy.

I re-watched a good portion of the game & Drew's performance simply wasn't good enough for most of it. His accuracy & ball placement was all over the place at times. Honestly, without them leaning on K9 & the run game in the 2nd half, the game isn't close.

I totally get it. People got excited about the final drive. Even ignoring the fact that he nearly threw 2 picks, that would have ended the game, on that drive. But...

There is no debate. Geno>>Drew

 

[renofox]

Fair enough. Everything is not awesome. But it certainly doesn't suck. They are an above average team with a shot at making playoffs. That's not a horrible thing.

Have a great holiday everyone.

Go Hawks

Agreed that making the playoffs would not be horrible. It would be great whether or not they stand a chance. I agree with those who want PC gone, but would never hope for a shitty game/season to try and make it happen. I want them to win every week.

I also don't say player x sucks, with a few exceptions:

Adams - he sucked from day 1. I hated the trade, hated the extension, and hated that PC neutered the passing Defense just to get Adams some sacks. I've never criticized his character, or him as a person, because I don't know the guy. I do know that the Defense plays much better when he's not on the field.

Haynes - He had some OK games to start the season then fell off a cliff. Bradford was also bad but he is likely to improve with experience. I was pissed that PC kept playing crappy Haynes instead of playing crappy-but-should-get-better Bradford. At least B is starting now and, hopefully, learning from his growing pains.

Evan Brown - Same as Haynes. Played well for ~6 games and was rated #14 at center. Fell off a cliff so bad he's dropped all the way to #32. Olu cannot be worse and will only get better with reps. I'm pissed that PC is still rolling with Brown every week.

Eskridge - I've never said he sucked, just that he's worthless and was a wasted draft pick. Prima facie.

So overall I don't think this team sucks. There's some glaring holes from lack of personnel (ILB, EDGE) and from lack of Always Compete (Safety, IOL), but this roster has enough talent to compete at a much higher level than what we've been experiencing.

The reason that A LOT OF THINGS SUCK RIGHT NOW, and have sucked for almost a decade, is because we keep seeing the same problems year after year and PC doing the same ineffective crap year after year.

This team could be so much better than it is but those who said, immediately after the SB loss, that PC would never compete at a high level again were right. It took me quite a few years to digest and understand their reasoning, but I finally understand and am beyond ready for PC to move on.

I want what's best for the Seahawks, not a free gravy train ride for PC as he takes the Seahawks with him into irrelevance.

I'll continue to call out PC and highlight his incompetence in an effort to allow other people to see what I've finally seen. Because if enough fans start bitching loud enough it may help foster change and make the Seahawks a better team.

 

[knownone]

Geno has a better deep ball than Purdy, so I think it'd actually be the reverse.

Geno produced 300+ and 4 total TDs and took 0 sacks against Micah Parsons and Dallas' pass rush.

As LTH just noted, the moment one of the best LTs in the league went down Purdy started coughing up the ball. How do we think he would look with an OL put together with duct tape and chicken wire?

Does the reverse mean the Niners improve slightly and the Seahawks regress slightly? If so, maybe. I don't know.

 

[DarkVictory23]

Does the reverse mean the Niners improve slightly and the Seahawks regress slightly? If so, maybe. I don't know.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

I genuinely don't think we do better with Purdy, despite how he looks now. I don't think he'd be able to produce Geno's games against Dallas and Detroit with the line/run game we have.

 

[12forlife]

Geno is a top 10-15th QB, Lock we don't know.

Geno is a top 10-15th QB, Lock we don't know.

Dude stop spiking the Egg Nog!

 

[toffee]

Dude stop spiking the Egg Nog!

You don't think that Geno is top 15?

 

[OrangeGravy]

That's a lot of IFs and so says he's not a top tier QB (Top 10). Which you can win with, but then it means you gotta put the money/talent around to make everything else work to essentially carry the QB who is not carrying the team. I don't think it's regression for Geno, I think its exposure. He is a mid pack QB who needs an offense to function for him to function. I think a top tier QB is a QB who can carry an offense and he can make it function.


Lets play hypothetical....if you put Geno on the Niners..that have all the pieces in play you would want for Geno to excel. Would he perform at the same level as Purdy, below or better?

Who do you think falls in your top tier category?

 

[OrangeGravy]

I just don't get why everyone is so passionate, for or against, a pair of mid-tier easily replaceable players.

Geno's performance and Lock's probable potential are basically the same - this team is not competing deep in the playoffs with either one.

Geno has morphed from good backup to a Bridge to Nowhere to The Man. Lock has morphed from a good backup to they guy who can far surpass Geno's mid-level performance.

I just don't get it.

You're not wrong. They are probably the same guy ceiling wise, but Geno is a step or 2 ahead in almost every category, right now. I don't understand anyone clambering for Lock the rest of the way. That's stupid. You don't go into experimental mode with 3 games left in a playoff race. That is a quick way to lose a locker room. I have no problem trying Lock out next year, after giving him an offseason to get prepared. You gain absolutely nothing doing it now. Maybe.......maybe if Geno played like shit in the Cowboys game, but it was the exact opposite